Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC - Official Thread

TLDR: So after listening a while on my solid state amp, a PS Audio GCHA, I am really impressed with the staging of the Bifrost2.

I have always found soundstage to be very confusing when trying to relate what I hear to how reviewers describe it. I never really have heard my headphone setup produce a stage in the way I visualize a stage from the audiences perspective.

My ear’s eye (if that makes any sense) has always put me on the the stage, so to speak. I hear instrument around me from about 270 degrees (like missing the 90 degrees directly behind my head). In addition I also perceive a great deal of vertical differentiation. Many time I feel like an instrument is coming from a higher or lower angle.

With all of that said, each instrument when separable is only placed very vaguely in my mind, somewhere low and to my left and even that placement is fuzzy, I wouldn’t be able to point in that direction. One might say I have both poor accuracy in placement and poor precision.

With the Bifrost 2 the precision of placement is hugely increased. I would also say the accuracy of placement is improved, but not to the same extent. In addition the separability of the instruments is far more refined. The piano is in this area and the sax is over there. The effect of this has been really interesting. Often times when I listen to a track I know well, I will follow an instrument I like throughout the song, really listening to the bass for example. However, unless that instrument has an extreme positioning (like faaar right or left) I wouldn’t really take it’s spatial information into account. Now, with the Bifrost2, I feel like that spatial information is hard to ignore even when the positioning is much more subtle.

Comparing the GCHA and the Pendant using the Bifrost. The GCHA is a tad cleaner and brings greater precision to my placement and the Pendant seems to fill the ‘space’ between instruments (without bring them closer together) in a way that makes the music feel more natural, live, and realistic.

Thank for coming to my TED talk :joy:

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Lol awesome–thank you for the comprehensive assessment! And to compare with the solid state and tube amps is also super helpful.

If you don’t mind, just one more question: how is the latency for the BF2? Anything noticeable or is it good to go?

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As for latency I don’t have a great test.

For music, I use Audirvana and there is a noticeable delay that Audirvana introduces when changing sample rate. However, the Bitfrost also make a loud click when changing sample rates, reconnecting to the source of unplugged, and turning on. This is a delay, but since the music doesn’t start until after, it isn’t latency per se. Pause and start feel very quick.

I have watched movies with the bifrost as the dac and didn’t notice any discrepancies between the screen and audio, however many of these movies were animated and for the kids.

The real test would be for gaming, where latency becomes more noticeable (and annoying), however I don’t have anything set up for gaming currently.

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I’ve never found there to be any noticeable latency.

f7ca8e4c5017b938762e7717780497f4

Not my own screenshot, but this is what Schiit support said.

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Same. No issues here.

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Impressions

I received a Bifrost 2 from Schiit a few days ago. These are my impressions.

Test setup: Amazon HD → Schiit Bifrost 2 → Rebel Audio RebelAmp → Focal Clear

Test tracks: My standard set, plus rediscovery of The Stone Roses (self-titled first album) – this complex studio confection includes all sorts of panning, reversed, and overdubbed content. It was a landmark of the 1980s, and directly led to the Shoegaze and Britpop genres in the 1990s. I retired it from testing some time ago (as being overplayed), but shouldn’t have. It sounds muddy, flat, and congested on less resolving hardware, but not on my test setup. Good portions for testing include the left-right panning of Bye Bye Bad Man and the rapid movements in Fools Gold. And more.

Habituation, Neural Training, or “Brain Burn”: The Bifrost 2 sounded like trash to my ears for the first hour. I heard a thousand crickets, cicadas, or a loud rainstorm. I’d read other comments about the need for either warm-up or for one’s hearing to adapt. Yes, this is real. My evidence suggests neural training or habituation is the key factor. It sounded downright broken for the first hour and then the first few minutes of several later sessions. It also sounded worse in my left ear for longer periods (this is standard for me). I never turned it off, so it has been fully warmed up from the first day.

I interpreted this as evidence that Schiit’s multibit technology does indeed preserve additional content versus Delta Sigma DACs. Those who are accustomed to listening to music with other DAC technologies may not correctly process the additional content. In my case, the cricket sounds disappeared and led to a more nuanced perception of the music. This occurred over several days and perhaps 10 hours of listening.

Audio Impressions: The Bifrost 2 stands out for several reasons, as compared to my prior daily-driver DACs (AKM 4490 and Burr Brown chipsets). The differences include:

  1. The Bifrost 2 has much, much greater nuance in reverberations, harmonics, and resonances. This means hearing the vibrations in acoustic instruments, the details of brass instruments, and the fluctuations in human voices. One hears complex changes as a voice fades or as a guitar is strummed. My other DACs tend to render these details as flat additional volume or brightness. Some consider the Bifrost 2 to be warm, but maybe not really. In revealing additional mid range details and clipping the air (versus AKM 4490 especially), the overall tone remains neutral. Note that I’m listening on the neutral to bright Focal Clear, so DAC warmth would offset headphone brightness.

  2. The Bifrost 2 fails in the direction of dithered roughness rather than piercing brightness. It is relatively technical, but has limits too. Noise and randomness become non-painful sibilance or a dithering (fuzzy harmonics). My AKM and Burr Brown DACs err in the direction of over smoothing plus piercing whines. These are actually much better than my older cheaper (e.g., Cirrus Logic) DACs, as those whined constantly.

  3. The Bifrost 2 has better control over volume differences and localization than my other DACs, and keeps each instrument or voice in its own lane. This increases perceived detail, and does indeed allow one to hear things for the first time that otherwise would disappear.

  4. In my setup the Bifrost 2 has solid staging and blackness. These aspects are equal or better than my other DACs but perhaps not unique to this product or technology.

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One of the best albums from a band that not many have heard of…
@PaisleyUnderground and I were just chatting about them and this album last week.

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For anyone looking to buy a BF2…

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What would be the final 10% in this case, @lost33? Or anyone else who could answer?

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If I recall, his eventual preferred system added a Pass Labs HPA-1 and Meze Empyrean.

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I see, very cool! Is he not a part of this community anymore?

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I believe his profile indicates he’s been suspended.

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I can’t speak for lost33, but the final 10% for your own journey will be your choice.

You might be happy enough with the audio equivalent of lush farming land and nearby fishing to settle down where you are, in which case you’ve reached 100%.

More likely (because we’re never content to settle down in our hobby), you’ll be curious about the legendary greener grass over the horizon. You might try a class A solid state amp (or two or three) and/or buy a tube amp (or five or six or ten or… let’s face it, tubes are addictive, this is a journey that never ends). You might try other headphones, which may cause you to second guess whether you have the right amp, with the number of watts that everyone tells you is an absolute minimum, and you’ll buy another amp, without truly understanding why.

And then you’ll realize you have a house full of audio gear and you’re broke, and you’ll start selling stuff, until you’re left with the equipment that you use the most, that gives you the most enjoyment. At this point, you’ve reached 100% again… until you get the urge to try something else.

A vicious, but wonderfully rewarding cycle.

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Once you get to this chain and the Focal Clear tier, there’s not a lot of “practical” value in going beyond. The Clear is not the technical best by any means (e.g., the Utopia is more nuanced but also has challenging treble), but the Clear exceeds the performance of a lot of production equipment today and totally blows away older stuff. It’s certainly technically better than what is possible in live venues too.

Audiophile discussion of “euphonics” or stage or depth or improvements over the source reflect personal taste. Some sincerely prefer clean, dry, and analytical while others prefer strategic and controlled distortions. Price has little relation to enjoyment, and people routinely fail blind tests. Audiophiles often enjoy the experience of buying luxury products, artistic products, unique products, or “technically advanced” products. Sound quality can be an afterthought.

Which ice cream would you pick out of 31 flavors?

Or you prowl the used equipment sites and flip gear for little or no net cost. Heavy amps and speakers often sell for less locally, as some refuse to ship them. You’ll win some and lose some money along the way. [However, if you operate in hobby circles rather than retail, don’t be a jerk and try to squeeze generous people for profit.]

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I have to say those first two paragraphs are the most concise way I’ve ever seen these fairly complex concepts explained without taking a hard side or making a controversial statement. :clap:

This and some other recent technically off-topic posts have made me think I really should follow every topic here, but that is a LOT of reading.

And now I’ve gone COMPLETELY off topic! :grimacing:

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One way to defeat the lo$$ factor is to just keep everything. I am such a hoarder.

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I have a very basic question. I typically listen thru a dap, currently A&K se180. I do have a jot and a lyr 3, when i use them I plug into the dap. I am interested in getting a bifrost DAC to listen thru an iphone (lightning) or an IPAD Pro (usb–C), how do I connect the Phone/ipad>dac>amp? What adaptors/connectors will I need. Thanks for your help

This will work for your iPhone: Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter - Apple
This should work for your iPad Pro: USB-C to USB Adapter - Apple

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I have the lighting connector to usb adaptor. I connect to the iphone, and connect the bifrost to the lyr 3, but get no sound through the headphones. I do get a very faint sound but cannot turn it up to get any real volume. I have the dac set for usb. Is there an iPhone setting I need to change, or any ideas why the setup is not working? Thank you in advance.

The DAC should bypass the phone’s volume control, I believe, but just to troubleshoot, does turning up the volume on your phone make any difference?