Yeah I realized that my B2 got warm because of a combination of hot summer temperatures and lack of ventilation.
Right now it sits at <35C / 95F, so no problem there 
B2 still performs amazingly, I use it to benchmark different Op Amps / mods in my HPA ( post 2912 on diyaudio)
It’s interesting how Bifrost2 lets me hear more differences than Bifrost1 when changing downstream gear. B1 was imposing its own grit on the high mids / treble. B2 ’ s treble is more refined.
Well, this is my first DAC and its the Bifrost 2. Im running a Pioneer Spec Amp and Pre Amp through several sets of speakers. Old School Realistic 1st Gen Mach Ones. Infinity Q JR. and Genesis Advanced Technology Genesis 3’s In every case its is like some one came into my audio room and replaced system.
The sound is airy with crisp ultra clean hi’s. Blooming mids and amazing clean expansive bass with a real punch and there are sounds in the music I have never before heard.
To say I love it is an understatement. Amazing value. Using Tidal.
You did say old school Realistic? How long have you had those?
About 10 years in storage. Im going to mod them there is a lot of fun info on how to make them much better.
I haven’t turned my Bifrost2 dac off in about 4 weeks. Using my IR Thermometer I measured the dac at two locations, front 96.1, the top towards the rear, 97.3. I haven’t heard any change in sounds since I’ve had the unit as far as temperature is concerned.
Yes, I’ve seen that article. I do like old school air movement. Someday I’ll replace my modded Rectilinear III Highboys, but I’ve yet to find speakers under about $10K that really want to make me pull the trigger.
I can get equal sound for about half that, but why?
I had a pair of Realistic Optimus 1’s as my first seat of “real” loudspeakers!!
2 way, Acoustic Suspension, Sealed…
Alex
Hi JTS. First of all thanks for sharing your setup and experiences here. I also have similar setup like you, for desktop use only. I still use cheap OFC cables, so I will certainly try the Oyaide Explorer 2 V2 cables first and see how that improves the system.
My setup is as follows. Mac mini -> Burson Conductor 3 Performance (Classic V6 opamps) -> Vista Audio Spark 2 -> Harbeth P3ESR.
For me the Burson Dac was an improvement over the RME ADI2. The RME in comparison sounded a little lifeless and clinical. The Burson is similar in resolution, but it sounds more a life. It seems to strike the right balance, but I found it too bright at times with V6 Vivid opamps. So I swapped the V6 Vivid opamps for the V6 classic opams. Huge difference. Maybe I will end up with half Vivid / half Classic, which is also a possibility. The downside of all 4 classics is that it is a bit too smooth and you loose some resolution. Thomas & Stereo is of the opinion the Burson is the best DAC below 1k (with 2 classic and 2 vivid V6 opamps).
So for my next improvements I was thinking of:
My questions to you are:
Any advice based on your experience would be much appreciated. I love my Harbeths already, but think the amp upgrade can bring out the best. Unfortunately I am not able to audition/try out the Heed products, so it would be a blind buy. The try out period on my Burson expires next week or so. A also really love to ability to swap opamps on the Burson, which makes it easier to match with other products I noticed. The headphone amp which I use with HD650 is also really good (of course) on the Burson.
Hi, Eckie77.
I have been making a number of changes in the last while, swapping cables, stands etc. I would preface all of these observations with a hearty YMMV. This is based on my system, my space, my ears.
As a sanity check, I have been bouncing between the RME and the BF2. I do find the BF2 a bit more difficult to manage than the RME - I find the BF2 quite sensitive to interconnects, upstream source, and recording quality. Despite this, the BF2 really renders a satisfying meaty tone and a killer sound stage. Percussion and bass slam are also very well rendered by the BF2. As a result, I have been continuing to tweak things to integrate it better into my system.
I am back on the Canare Starquad for speaker cable. It is a bit brighter than the Oyaide cable. But the gains in staging (probably related to the brighter cable) are quite pronounced. I put some Furutech copper bannans on it - not sure if it changed anything, but I like this cable better now.
In addition, I am going to be switching streamers from the Allo DigiOne with the Nirvana PSU to the Pi2Design Pi2AES. Everything I have read about it points to it being a more accomplished, technically proficient, and better sounding streamer.
I did not consider the Elixr. I know it is well reviewed by ZeroFidelity and the folks at Stereophile. My understanding, though, is that the Obelisk is a level up in technical refinement. I heard the Obelisk on the floor with P3s and fell in love with it. I heard it against a few other, more expensive, amps and felt that the Obelisk suited my tastes better. I have had it for four years now and continue to enjoy it.
Funny you would ask. I just added a REL t7i this last weekend. It is still early days with it, but my initial impression is that, more than anything else I have done, it has a very profound effect on the sound. It changes the staging and my perception of the treble information which seems less peaky and more smooth now. As you get it dialed in, you really end up with this kind of luminescent quality to the music when the sub is integrated nicely. The sub itself is almost not there, but the music feels more palpable. It makes the staging more forward, but it is not at all unpleasant. Previously, I could not tolerate poorly recorded material on this system. With the sub it all becomes listenable (though you can still certainly tell that poorly recorded stuff is still poorly recorded stuff)
No. I have had a Burson Soloist headamp (the original one) and LOVED it, and a Burson Play with the Vivid OP Amps which I never really connected with.
I have not heard their DACs at all. I have opposing tastes - I either like clean and technical - RME/Genelecs at work or I like something fun (but still technically accomplished) like the BF2/Heed/P3ESRs. I have had a few DS dacs in the past: Heed, Aurilac, Rega, M-Audio, Topping, and the BF2 is more involving to me. The BF2 is a fantastic DAC, but a bit fussy with upstream gear and recordings.
One thing I found was that it is very important to choose the right stand for the P3s. Big heavy inert stands really kill the sound of the P3s. I moved from sand filled metal stands I was using with a pair of Dynas to the 4 post Skylans half filled with rice (as per Noel at Skylan) and it was a significant change. Everything became more lively, better bass response, better staging - more of that P3ESR sense of presence. I think that light, open stands are what the Harbeths like best.
@Eckie77, if you’re looking for high end cable upgrades and you live in the US, I’d recommend you contact Douglass Connection. Doug will custom build cables using the wire and connectors that you want, and charge you an appropriate amount for his labor. Or he can sell you the components if you want to make the cables yourself. I found his custom-made cables to be cheaper than buying ready-made cables with similar quality from other places. I initially went to Doug because I needed someone to custom-build me something with a right angle adapter for my Pendant amp, but I ended up buying a few of his Furutech OCC interconnects with Furutech RCA connectors. I know you’re looking for speaker cables, but I’m just saying that this could be an option, as I would imagine Furutech OCC is comparable with Oyaide OCC.
Since this is a Bifrost 2 thread, I will say that I love the sound signature of the BF2 feeding my Lyr3 or my Pendant using that Furutech cable. Compared to the $20 Schiit Pyst cables (which are exceptional value), the soundstage increased and there seemed to be better clarity without any emphasis on any particular frequency, e.g. the highs are clearer but they are not bright or fatiguing.
I haven’t tried the Burson Conductor, but I should be receiving my Burson Soloist amp today or tomorrow. The Soloist and the Conductor have more or less the same amp, and Burson told me that the Soloist is fractionally better, although they didn’t explain why (maybe better isolation, since they didn’t have to cram a DAC and amp in the same enclosure). You might find that a Bifrost 2-Soloist combo gives you the balance that you need, if you’re experiencing brightness right now. I’ll let you know what I find, hopefully before your trial period finishes.
I loved my old Schiit Modi/Magni/Wyrd. At the time, it was about $250. I’ll bet I bought 6 more-expensive DACs to try to beat the Schiit combo. Sent them all back. I finally had to spend $1,200 to beat the SQ (PSAudio Stellar GC DAC/Pre). I drive Sennheiser HD600’s and Neumann KH120A powered, near-field monitors on isoAcoustic stands. My forever system. For portable I use AQ Dragonfly Cobalt. Just try to borrow THAT from me – no way.
Great description of the REL T7i Effect. Exactly the same for me. Now, I want to play well-recorded live music all the time. (Two suggestions: 1. Prayer Meetin’ by Jimmy Smith. 2. Trinity Session by Cowboy Junkies.
I have all-PSAudio electronics and Tannoy Cheviot speakers. I love my T7i… I wonder what a second one would do? 
Hi JTS,
Thanks a lot for your detailed response. I am still pretty much a newbee in Hi-Fi and particularly in head-fi. I ordered the Oyaide Cable to try out. Also I will order the Pure Cable SP#79SV (€30 per meter). I really liked that cable from a cable demo/review I saw a few months ago on a local YouTube channel. https://youtu.be/wX4ZkBmbnVM.
With respect to the Burson Conductor line-up and also the recent Composer Dac, I think it is a clear step or even few steps up from the products you owned/tried earlier. Resolution wise it is on par with RME for sure. I think it is probably very close to the BF2 and Chord Qutest etc. The best compromise in detail/soundstage and smoothness is 2 Vivid and 2 Classic V6 opamps. Also watch this review on Headphonics. https://headfonics.com/burson-composer-3x-performance-review/2/. I don’t want to try all dacs below 1k and probably to get a more analogue presentation you would need to go to a Tube Dac anyway. But with developments going so fast I am very happy with the Burson for now.
Also, I am pretty sure that the problem I still have in the treble region, edginess and harshness particularly with female vocals is mostly attributable to the analogue part of my system (including room interaction), so cables, amp and speakers and not the digital part (USB/Dac). The USB/jitter correction of the Burson is actually really impressive and you can also adjust the level. I don’t notice any harshness at all with my headphones (HD650). @PaisleyUnderground The BF2/Burson soloist combo is something I will consider when the final amp/speakers setup is still not to my liking. I found it weird that Burson only added balanced outputs on their new Soloist, so I would need special cables to connect it to my amp. For now the (unbalanced) Conductor 3 Performance seems to be the best value overall, because it basically has the same dac/headphone and preamp as their standalone, but more expensive offerings. The opamp changeability is really a big plus of their products.
The main reasons why I think I still have issues with edginess/harshness (other than Dac) are:
Hi, @Eckie77.
Also, consider room treatments. I use the RME with Genelecs in my work studio. Room treatments were an integral part of dialing that system in. It tamed all the harshness from that rig and really improved the staging and response. I picked up a measurement rig from Mini DSP and I used REW to do my measurements. That room measures is very close to flat down to about 30Hz. Measurements help me place my sub and also dial in the room response settings on the Genelecs. I can tell you that the room with and without treatments are completely different beasts. I will be adding treatments to my front wall at home in the coming weeks.
Well that’s in the eye of the beholder :-). If you have some direct comparisons, I would love to know what your findings are.
I’ve also owned a Holo Spring and a Schiit Gungnir. Loved the Holo and miss it always (sold it to help with some renos 
) , The Gungnir was not a good fit for me at all. The BF2 is certainly better for my tastes and system. In my comparisons of the DS dac I had, my favourite was the Heed Dactilus. It was really lovely sounding, great control, threw a huge stage, and was highly addictive. It was surprising for such a little unassuming box. It is likely not a very technically “good” DAC, but it sounded effing great.
Oh. Despite Alan Shaw’s statements to the contrary, 200hrs is when things settled down for me. Try a couple of loudish session if you can - like 80db for a couple of hours. Don’t go too much louder - the P3s start to fall apart a bit further after that.
This is a huge thing, especially in a desktop setting. You are getting a ton of primary reflections there and it’s mostly treble information.
I don’t know the Spark, but trying another amp will always help you figure out what works and what does not.
Absolutely. Like the 650’s they definitely scale. There is a reason that many reviewers use the P3s as their reference speaker when doing reviews of upstream sources and as a comparison for other “bookshelf” speakers. They resolve exceptionally well and are famously pleasant.
I am sure this will work well. Keep in mind the extra power in the t7i is not all about volume, it is also about being able to start and stop the driver quickly. The t7i is a faster sub than the T5i. Having said this, at my desk, I use a Genelec 7040A which is a 50W sub with a 6.5" driver. It is perfect for that use.
I had the classics for many years and now have the XDs. I was very fond of the classics, but I am super digging XDs. As I have been dialing things in, their talents are becoming more apparent. The XDs have a completely redesigned crossover from the 40th Anns. They smoothed out the midbass bump and, to my ear, opened them up a bit more. There is not a hint of boxiness when I close my eyes with the XDs.
One thing to also note about the BF2 is that I have found that a SPDIF source is easier and cheaper to get right. An Allo DigiOne with a middling SMPS (Allo Nirvana) beats the pants off of the USB sources I have been using even with decent cables and an Intona reclocker. I have a PI2AES coming in later this week and am excited to see what it brings to the table. USB from a workstation, laptop, mac mini, and a little Upboard based streamer sounds simultaneously less detailed and more “hashy” in the treble in comparison to the SPDIF input on the BF2. Source seems to make negligible difference with the RME, though.
Hi JTS,
Thanks again. Good to read that with a lot of things I am at the right track. I will first deal with all the items of my list and also take the time for it, which is not always easy ;)!
Yes I noticed this already with previous (more studio type) options I had before the Harbeths (Adam A5x and HEDD type 5 monitors), but also ported passive designs. I must say that the Harbeths with their closed box design (with Sub) and more laid back presentation already makes a huge difference in a home environment. Due to cosmetic reasons the primary goal is to keep the room treatment at a bare minimum at home. That’s why I first want to work on the equipment before changing the environment. A lot of studio equipment is just not suitable for home use is my take. It is not my goal to build my own home studio. That’s why I also really like my Buchardt S400 in my living room. Their waveguide tweeter, although not perfect, is perfect in that (modern) environment. Also the soundstage on them is incredible for their size. So very suited for large performances and TV/Movies.
Did you also try Tube dacs like the MHDT Labs Orchid TDA1541A? If I decide to go the separate DAC / headamp route in the end, that seems to be a good contender to the BF2 as well. Maybe not at the same level detail wise, but much more enjoying and forgiving.
I found a review yesterday in which both the Heed Elixir and Obelisk were used with different sets of speakers (Xavian Perla Esclusiva and Tekton Lore Reference). The Elixir matched really well with the more refined and smaller Xavian speakers, whereas for the Tektons it was just the other way around. Apparently this matching is a real thing. Based on that review my guess would be that the less refined Elixir might well be the better match with the P3’s. I will try that one first in the coming months. Xavian Perla Esclusiva Loudspeaker.
I don’t think the speed is much of a concern for the Harbeths, which are not the fastest speaker any way. Also a reason why the Elixir might be the better match. The T5i is a closed box design, whereas the T7i has a passive radiator, so my expectation would be that the t5i is better controlled, but misses the output volume of the T7i. Nice fun fact is that Rel actually uses the P3esr with the t5i in their office :D! At least that was told by an employee responding to my question which sub would match best in my setup.
My guess would be that the classics work better and are easier to manage in a dekstop environment, for which they initially are designed is my understanding. I really notice that the treble is tuned for that purpose and when I move further away from the speaker it is much softer in contrast. Maybe the original or classic design assumes a certain amount of reflection to begin with. The XD’s are probably more suited for HiFi listening setups (both nearfield and midfield) in which they have more room to breath and the distance of the listener is bigger, which is how I understand you are using them? Frankly, I would not even consider the Harbeths for my living room.
For me another interface is not really an option in a desktop setup. I think the USB driver is actually something Schiit has positively marketed the BF2 with, so disappointing to read that it performs so bad in comparison. Seems for my use case that would not be a big upgrade. I just want a reasonable dac, that performs in all situations well. I mostly use Tidal streaming and video streaming services on my desktop. Especially with Youtube sources I get this digital glare and brighter presentation which I don’t like, but maybe that is just the Harbeths revealing the bad source…
The BF2’s USB connection works very well. There seems to be a general consensus that SPDIF is generally a better connection than USB, but I believe Schiit’s Unison USB input has squeezed everything that can be squeezed out of USB.
I’ve never had glare or brightness using the BF2, using a variety of amps (Lyr3, Asgard 3, Pendant, Burson Soloist 3XP). That seems to tally with other people’s accounts, where BF2 is considered on the slightly warm side of neutral.
Hey, @Eckie77.
Sounds like you are well into your research.
I would counter a couple of your extrapolated points here:
As far are room treatments go. You can make them to your own taste. I made these based on a recipe from an engineer I know. They’re made from premade 1.5" gallery canvas stretcher bars and Roxul Comfortboard 80 which measures very close to the Corning board people use, but is half the price. Pick some breathable fabric (I use Kona quilting fabric) and have at it with a bread knife and a staple gun. When you put them on the wall, add 1.5" spacers around the frame so they sit off the wall. That dead air space really deadens things. In here it made a night and day difference. Genelecs are famously crispy which makes them great for problem solving. I use them with an RME and treatments transformed them from brutal into fun-to-listen-to while maintaining their instrumental qualities for work. I am hoping my treatments downstairs will also help a bit with some of the peakyness I get from the P3XDs with the BF2.
I definitely have wrestled with “glare” with the BF2 across a few different sources (PC, Laptop, UpBoard Streamer with and without and Intona), amps (Heed Obelisk SI III, Peachtree Nova 150, PS Audio Sprout), speakers (B&W, Dynas, a couple of Harbeths), cables (long boring list). It might be a speaker/room thing. I have not done much headphone listening with the BF2.
Using the BF2 with SPDIF certainly helped a lot. I have found USB to be simultaneously softer and noisier/hashier over a few sources. Could be that my USB sources are all crappy…I’ve not used an SoTM or other TOTL USB gear. I would say that this is not something I experience with the RME or had experienced with my Holo Spring when I had one (though the Spring was used in a different room).
In my home system, I find the RME ADI-2 lacking in texture and weight in comparison to the BF2, which I find really renders textures in a palpable manner. I am always excited by the way it renders upper register percussion textures and other high-energy treble information. Through SPDIF, these things do not have a hint of noise in them and sound very real, indeed.
I adore the BF2 for what it does right: staging, timbre, texture, resolution, involvement. I am pretty confident that I can tweak my system to sort out the issues I have experienced with it. I have been working with it for about 6 months now (along with a bunch of other system changes) and feel I am almost there.
I am pretty sure that the moments of “glare” i experience with the BF2 and some material can be mitigated by fixing the room interaction on my end. I will be treating my front wall over the holidays and will report back.
Agreed, we have different chains and I do most of my listening via headphones vs speakers for you, so it could be a number of factors. I’m very sensitive to brightness in the treble, so that’s why I can definitively say that I’ve never experienced it, but maybe I’ve been lucky that the combination of all my gear has worked out.
Not to open up a debate, but I was surprised to find that the quality of the USB cable matters too. Not talking about cost necessarily (because as we all know, expensive doesn’t always equal high quality), but after buying a USB cable that was designed to isolate the electrical noise in the power wires away from the data-carrying wires, I found that the sound was more transparent and the soundstage was larger. I A-B’d multiple times to prove that I wasn’t imagining it. On the other hand, I fully admit that I probably could have reached the same level of sound quality at a lower cost if I’d used SPDIF instead of USB, but that would have been less fun.
Can you tell I am procrastinating on a ton of work I have to do today?
You’ve inspired me to try out the BF2 with headphones. I’m going to drag my headphone amp (Modded Mapletree Ear+ - tube goodness) down and give it a whirl.
Ahaha. I know what you mean. This is a pretty friendly place so I think it’s safe to discuss cables here
I also hear the difference in cables, but I also agree that cost does not equal quality. I try to use sensible cables - pro stuff from Canare, Belden,Mogami, and a few hifi things from Oyaide - good copper, good connectors. In all cases, switching cables at any of the connection points changes the sound for me - sometimes a tiny subtle change makes the difference between “being there” and just hearing speakers. I liked the chapter and hypothesis from Jason Stoddard from Schiit about this.
There are small audible differences in audio electronics that cannot be readily explained by measurements, or that exist below the level commonly accepted as inaudible; furthermore, some people can hear these small differences, and some of the people who can hear them may consider them important.
(A link to his post on “blind listening” here)
For fun, I even built a power cable with nice copper cable and copper connectors for my amp and, yup, it changed the sound. I also went back and forth to make sure that I wasn’t just dreaming.
I have found that SPDIF cables make a difference, too. I was using a generic 75ohm cable and I switched to an Oyaide cable and there was a definite improvement - less noise, more bass, less “tight” sounding. I can always tell if I have improved things as when I initially perceive the music as sounding slower - but that is likely my particular neurology at work
I like your story about the USB cable and your BF2. What USB cable did you use?
