So you think it’s better with the VC than your Crack or Tuba? Those were two options I was considering. I almost bought a Tuba from someone on these forums a couple of days ago despite the fact that I already ordered the SW51+. Sounds like I will be ok with what I have coming.
I also see you are using the Bifrost 2. This is the dac on my radar the most right now. Your chain of BF2 > SW51+ > VC is exactly what I’m looking to have as my long-term setup, so any details you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
As I’ve mentioned, this will be my first tube amp. I’ve always been hesitant to get into tubes because I was afraid I’d get sucked into the endless rabbit hole of tube-rolling. The SW51+ sounded appealing to me for lots of reasons, but the limited need to tube roll was very important to me. I also love that the tubes for it are so cheap!
I’d love to hear some of your impressions comparing these different tube amps with the VC specifically. After ordering the VC, I considered a few other choices before landing on the SW51+. These included the Quicksilver Headphone Amp, Feliks Audio Echo, various used Woo Audio options, and even the ZMF Pendant (though this was a bit out of my target price range). Everything I read about the SW51+ made it sound like an incredible bang-for-your-buck! I love finding those kinds of products, especially after dropping $2000+ on headphones!
It’s my preference, it sounds more like the Tuba than any other amp, the tuba has more flexible output impedance, but I just prefer the overall sound of the SW51+. All 3 are good, I’m not sure I could live with just the Crack, it’s a bit wet sounding for my preferences, a nice change of pace.
It sounds really good, honestly the VC is a lot of headphone, and would benefit from a better setup, but there really aren’t a lot of tube amp options worth it between $1K and 2K, and your looking at probably 1.5-2K+ used for a significant step up in DAC’s.
Until recently my VC a was on a Lampizator Amber 3 into DNA Stratus, and to me that’s night and day better, but it’s also 5x the cost.
At the price point it’s really good.
That’s actually a surprising shame. Even the good starter big boy tube amps around 2k are either becoming more expensive, like the pendant, or may no longer be made, like the T4.
BF2. I have one as well. Very good dac. Hard to beat at the price. I considered an upgrade from it but not sure what would really obviously outshine it unless I went into 2k range or higher price wise.
I think it’s just a function of what it takes to differentiate between good entry level tube amps and the next step up.
A lot of it is going to end up being in power supply quality and the transformers, both get expensive quickly so you get a big price jump.
Zampotech winds his own transformers for the SW51+, Haggerman can get away with lower cost ones in the Tuba because it’s a parafeed design, so the transformer doesn’t need an air gap.
Once your in A&S/Decware/DNA entry level those components are getting expensive.
I was very close to buying a used Eddie Current ZDS on eBay but decided I wasn’t ready for a serious tube amp. I like that the SW51+ only has two tubes, so there aren’t endless rolling possibilities. I may be tempted further down the line, but I think I’ll be good for a while with the SW51+ and something like the BF2 as my dac.
@Polygonhell With the VC, would I be better off hypothetically getting a mid-tier dac and a high-end tube amp or a high-end dac and a mid-tier tube amp? Don’t think I can swing a high-end dac and amp.
I personally would probably upgrade to a better amp first, the BF2 is very good, there is a big jump in the LaVoce S3/Lampizator range, but that’s a big jump, in price.
But you have to be sure your getting what you like if your jumping up in electronics.
If your not really familiar with tube amps, an SW51+/Tuba might be a better first step.
Until you can decide what you like.
Or buy at good used prices so your not taking a bath if you don’t like it.
I agree with @Polygonhell, spend on the amp first, especially with the VCs. I have a more limited experience than many here, but as a VC owner it took me 4 different amps with the VC to finally get the true value of them and the DAC was a smaller part of the equation. I regretted spending so much on the DAC first before realizing the amplification really matters. Matching to the 300 ohm VCs is more important than a DAC. Refine the DAC later, is my advice.
@MokhaMark I’m interested to know what your amp journey looked like for the VC and which amp you ended up liking the most in the end. Also what dac are you using?
I have had a Vali 2, Jotunheim, Asgard 2, Ragnarok 2, Matrix Audio Element X (which is also my DAC) and a Kenzie OG. I spent on the Element X early on because on paper the head phone amp had enough power for the VC and I thought I would have a one device solution. It does, but in a Class D sort of way. The first moment I plugged the VC into the Kenzie I realized I had only delayed the inevitable! There is a reason so many ZMF owners end up with tube amps. It was like teh clouds parted and teh choir started singing.
My second favorite is the Asgard 2, $139 B stock on the Schiit website. IMO, at that price, everyone should have an Asgard 2, even if it is just in the bathroom system. My least favorite (for ZMF) was the amp in the $3000 DAC!! No kidding.
I joined this forum during Covid times and wish I had read more before I started spending $$. There are a lot of wisdoms to be gained here from the veteran members. I am still a newbie.
The moral of my story is that I bought a crazy DAC before I had any idea the important distinctions in amplification type as it relates to specific headphones. I wish I had just gone straight for tubes and a “sufficient” DAC until I ironed out the marriage of amp and head phones.
I’m going to enjoy my new VC when it arrives with my current equipment and patiently await the arrival of the SW51+. I believe it will help to get a baseline impression for the first couple of months using my my modest SS amp and dac, the JDS Labs EL Amp II and Topping E30.
When my SW51+ arrives, I’ll already be pretty familiar with the sound of the VC in my setup. That should make any improvements with the tube amp relatively easy to notice. Then I can upgrade my dac once I’m used to the new amp and see what differences that makes. I like the idea of changing one variable at a time.
Side question, what’s the standard procedure for using a headphone tube amp? Should I turn on the amp and let it warm up for a certain amount of time before plugging my headphones in? Should I unplug the headphones before or after turning the amp off? I usually leave my headphones plugged into my SS amps all the time, but I remember reading this may not be a good idea with a tube amp. Could someone spell out the basics for me?
I used to be borderline neurotic about it, but I just leave the headphones connected now. I’ve yet to have any negative things happen. Amps with output transformers are safe - transformers will not let DC current pass, so no burning up your transducers that way. OTL amps usually have capacitor drains to ground, but certainly require more scrutiny and possibly more care in that regard. Hybrids are usually as safe as regular solid state amps.
My advice is to ask the amp maker if you have concerns. Asking if it is safe to leave your headphones connected through power on/off shouldn’t be unusual, nor should answering the question “what does the amplifier do to protect my headphones” be difficult.
As for warm up, 10 minutes of power usually sees to stable thermals and sound. If you want to throw science at it, enjoy this short read:
New tubes require burn in, of course. That can take 30 to 200 hours to normalize.
I’m pretty protective with my stuff. To be honest, I’m borderline OCD. To be fair, I also have two moderately wild young children with no respect for their or others’ things. So I’m wondering where my fellow ZMF owners store their beautiful headphones after they finally convince themselves to take them off.
They would be on a hangar off the side of my listening station next to my recliner but if I had wild yunguns I’d probably put them somewhere up high and out of reach if I wanted them to be safe. Treat them like a loaded gun and keep them safely away from them until they can appreciate them.
I’ve had my VC monkeypod for less than one year (I’ve also owned VO silkwood somewhat longer). I’ve tried them with different DAC and amp configurations. Until recently, my favorite source for the VC was a Sonnet Morpheus NOS DAC with an ecp DSHA-3F amp. But I’m spending half of my time at a different location, and ended up recently with a new Holo Spring 2 DAC and an SPL Phonitor XE that is a very clean, powerful amp but leaves me a bit cold. The Spring 2 DAC is not fully broken in (I know, I know, but all the R2R DACs I’ve owned take a while to sound their best). Even then, the Spring 2>Phonitor combo is getting some new magic out of the VCs, with bigger stage, depth, and a NOS tonal density that does not smear, unlike the original Holo Spring (with different amps, though) or to a lesser extent the Morpheus.
Just saying this to show that VC never ceases to surprise with what it can get out of special components.
Next up, Spring 2>Eddie Current Aficionado>ZC to get the tube alternative. The DSHA-3F is elsewhere so I won’t be able to check it with the Spring 2 for a while, but I’m really curious of what that mix will do.
Looks like the VC was a great match with the Kenzie…I’m thinking about that, a VO, or an Auteur.
Once you get your Ovation, you can look at a power increase with 12B4A output tubes. Works great on Kenzie and Encore models. Requires a specific Octal to Novel adapter. Confirm with Justin, but he used to sell a 12B4A kit for the Kenzies/