~ $300 DAC + AMP for Elegia

Purchase Advice
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Yeah I see DACs like the Topping D10 (on Drop) that are pretty inexpensive—maybe something like that with the Drop + THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier available wouldn’t be too much out of the budget. Definitely like the idea of having room to upgrade later on to a better DAC and other stuff (a lot of people talk about balanced cables, etc. - the Elegia cables are horrible so I’ll need something if I choose those).

Thanks for the help. Looking forward to being able to truly preview the AFCs/Elegias.

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Thanks so much for the response. Kind of in the same situation you were and not really sure what to do, so appreciate knowing that you enjoyed the purchase. Thanks again!

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Hello and welcome @Brian_Neese.

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That combo is literally better than the state of the art not too long ago. There have been huge advances over the last generation. Many people may not even hear this level of quality – it takes a lot of critical listening time and motivation. Some people (like me) don’t care past a certain quality level.

When this forum opened there was Master @Torq, who had fantastic equipment and the generosity to share his knowledge with others. Then there were others who initially had mid priced equipment not unlike my own (e.g., @TylersEclectic, @antdroid) – they later transcended to Master Level equipment.

When you read equipment names from RAAL, ZMF, RME, SPL, and Benchmark – the users are serious about their upgrades and budget.

You should determine whether you personally lean more toward objective/measurement products or subjective/experiential products. This is a Holy War on most audio sites, and the arguments often get out of hand. Perhaps the world’s most polarizing website is Audio Science Review, as the objective tests published there often make cheap products look better than expensive products. And the site owner can be controversial too… Another good objective/measurement site is DIY Audio Heaven.

Note that all closed headphones tend to sound worse over time. While a closed headphone is often essential for a noisy environment or to avoid disturbing others, they are a compromise. They sound worse because they compress air to generate sound and pound your eardrums, and the closed boxes can cause internal echoes. Open headphones sound better for longer because the air vents out the back, which is a more natural listening scenario. Do not attempt lenthy critical sessions on closed headphones.

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Thanks for the help. Yeah, it’s amazing the differences in responses I’m getting (to your point of varying opinions/arguments). Some others are saying it’s a bad idea to get a cheap DAC and so forth. Hard to know what the Topping D10 ($65)/789 ($400) vs. the LCD+SDAC ($380) really comes down to until I hear them, but don’t want to mess with more comparisons (no good audio stores around so it’s all online shopping).

I will say that I’m a little worried that neither the AFCs/Elegias are what I need. I don’t think of myself as a bass head but would like a little more bass bunch than what I’m hearing. Then again, I’m driving ~$800 headphones on my computer right now so I might not be getting the real story yet.

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Also, whichever direction I go, do I need to buy anything else like balanced cables? Want to me sure I know how much this whole setup will cost. Don’t know if I can just use the connection/headphone cables I will get from the purchase (or that I have with the headphones) or if I need to factor that in. Seems like balanced cables and that type of thing might be overkill for me (listening on my desktop to Spotify), but some say it makes a big difference.

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With scientific training, I’m very much a believer in double blind tests. Many/most/all humans have a hard time separating portions of their perceptual experience. It’s like saying that a Ferrari is faster because it’s made from carbon fiber and Italian “zest” – when a cheaper Mustang can actually be much faster on a race track.

I have accidentally fooled myself after forgetting I wasn’t using the $400 THX AAA 789 but actually was on a $100 Loxjie P20 (plus $30 tube upgrade). My perceptions of the same equipment also change with fatigue and mood.

Yes, test for yourself!

Given the many For Sale ads on audio websites and Ebay/Craig’s List, many people churn through equipment pretty fast. Me too. If you buy new you’ll lose 30%, but it you buy used or use the Headphones.com trial program, you basically just lose shipping costs.

First, get a true amp. The main change will be greater definition and better highs/lows. Second, a good DAC can further extend the range and clarity. With too little power/current the drivers are straining to function and deliver sound.

Bass can be strong and flabby (not my thing) or tight and precise. Some genres are heavily produced and modified in the studio too.

I bought at least 5 balanced cables for my headphones when I switched from single to balanced amps. This followed buying a Focal Elex that arrived with factory single plus balanced cables. The balanced cable delivered a big improvement, so everything else got a balanced cable too.

I spent $30 to $100 per cable (Ebay, Amazon, etc), but others spend into the thousands of dollars for pure silver, etc. Some of my balanced cables added little or no value (i.e., Audeze LCD-2C), while others were cheap but astounding (i.e., Sennheiser HD-600).

In my experience the main value is in removing background noise from dynamic driver headphones. They reduce hiss and make audio details appear. It’s way more obvious with vocals and acoustic music than EDM, metal, or hip-hop.

In audio you will disagree with half of the community, as they have polar opposite opinions. Be aware and be tolerant.

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28

Just wanted to say thanks for the help! Just pulled the trigger on the 589, which ships right away, and I think I’ll do the Topping D10 (days remaining on drop so have some time) since I’ll be right at the upper $500 limit I have for all this stuff. Hopefully cables can wait.

Looking forward to hearing the AFCs/Elegias on some real equipment. Worst-case scenario I send them both back and rethink the right headphones!

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Hi Brian - IMHO I dont think the Elegia needs any special high end amp/dac. I actually just picked up the Topping DX3 Pro and have been using it at work office this week and it’s surprisingly very transparent and clean.

As far as balanced goes, I have gone back and forth using balanced and not. I recently detached my THX-AAA 789 balanced amp and got rid of my other balanced desktop amps and am just running single-ended 6.35mm to the RME ADI-2 DAC and Woo WA7 Tube amps and I’m pretty content for the most part. This was more of an aesthetics change than anything – as I think the THX789 sounds “better” than the RME ADI-2 DAC from a transparent solid-state POV.

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Thanks. For a total newbie question, will I need to get cables to connect the DAC to the amp? I just bought the D10 to go with the 589 and not sure if I’ll need something to connect the two (my understanding is the DAC will come with the USB connector for the computer). Again, totally new at this :slight_smile:

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589 or 789? I don’t know what the 589 would be.

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You’ll want RCA cables to connect the Topping D10 to the THX-789. They will connect in the Red/White Lineout of the D10 to the THX Line In

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Oh that was a typo. Bought the 789 and the D10.

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Thank you!

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You can absolutely use each portion independently. So far I think it’s a great combo that can be upgraded down the road.

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So I’m too new to create a new post and thought I’d continue my recent takeover of this one :slight_smile:

I got the D10 and 789, and hopefully that’s a good duo for what I’ve concluded. Unfortunately I’m not a huge fan of the Elegia/AFC. I see what some critics were saying about the Elegia’s “metallic” quality. That and whatever sound signature is going on is really not for me—plus I find them physically uncomfortable to wear (I wear headphones nearly all the time while working + several hours a week with free time). The AFCs are better. I liked the bass response/tightness, which was an improvement over anything I have access to (my 598 SEs/custom UE 10 Pros and the Elegias). But nothing really “wowed” me to be honest (aside from the comfort!). And the big takeaway for me is that they both sound muffled, likely due to them being closed. (You were right about the closed-headphone compromise @generic) I’d honestly take my 598s over both the Elegias/AFCs, as heretical as that may be to the hi-fi world.

I’ve decided that I can wear my UE 10 Pros when I need isolation—I prefer them to both closed units (I forgot how good they are; assumed $800ish headphones would be a lot better than the UE 10s)—but stick with open headphones most of the time. So I’m a little bit back to square one, but I feel like since I like my 598s so much, I know what I want. Love the sound signature and openness of them/the soundstage (that got a boost with the DAC/amp). More detail and a little boost in bass (I listen to plenty of rap/hip-hop, in addittion to soul/R&B—AFCs were good with bass) would be nice. Really just take what the 598s are and move it into the next level of headphones.

Drop has the 6xx for less than $200, which is hard to pass up. I actually owned the 650s a very long time ago, before I really got into headphones, and remember them being incredibly detailed and so forth. So I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on those as they seem inexpensive and safe given my preferences in sound (being so close to the 598s, which I still love). Seems a little crazy as my DAC/amp combo would be more than double the amount of the new headphones. But the 650s retail for $500 and seem like a logical step up until I reload my spending budget and get a better feel for where to go next.

Should I be considering anything else? Don’t want to play the “buy and return more headphones” game, but will consider others if another set of headphones makes more sense/if the 598 to 6xx jump won’t be that noticeable (most reviewers on Drop doing that upgrade say it is, but there are a minority who say it’s negligible).

Caveats: I’m hoping I’m getting a real taste of everything with the D10/789 duo. Not worried about the latter given its reputation/reviews; maybe the former a bit with its price. Also, I hope my hearing is good—after reading stellar reviews about the Elegia, some of it’s a little hard to believe. Then again, I know that’s the world of audio. Maybe my hearing and taste in headphones is strongly biased toward Sennheiser’s sound. I see on Amazon that I did purchase the 570s in 2002/high school :slight_smile: Those were my headphones forever before a quick stint with the 650s (replaced by custom IEMs for isolation) and then the 598s a couple years ago.

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My Elex (basically the open version of the Elegia) were metallic at first, but later improved. They drove me to balanced in an effort to reduce the metallic character.

If you haven’t messed with the pads (as included in mine), take out the white ones and put in the thin airy black ones. The white pads reduce treble and increase the muffled sensation.

I’ve been down this path. When you reach a certain fatigue point with closed headphones, your body will reject them. They’ll sound awful. Stop. Put them aside for a couple days and recover…

Mid quality open often surpasses high quality closed. Yes indeed.

I have the original HD-600 (balanced) and use it in standard rotation. I prefer neutral to bass heavy myself.

The law of diminishing returns hits headphones in the $200 to $500 price bracket. You do get more for $500 to $1,000, but it may require good sources and close attention to notice. [Also see the incredible reviews of the RAAL-requisite at $3,500.]

The THX amps are new products so they cost more. The Sennheiser headphones have been out for ~20 years now.

I did that, and then started selling what I didn’t like. I also demoed many expensive headphones in a local store. I keep returning to the HD-600s as a “satisfying” choice. They are a little less defined, a little less dynamic, but very well-rounded and pleasant.

I think @pwjazz and @pennstac might be able to add more on this. I have never owned the 598.

Your ears do require training and time. My sophistication improved and taste changed with experience. I urge you to try a break in on your $$$ headphones. Just set them at a normal volume with regular music and let them run for 24, 48, or 100 hours. Some believe in this (I do for some cases).

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@Brian_Neese I’ve never had the 6XX, but for me the jump from 598 to 600 was significant. You gain a lot of clarity and more articulate bass, at the expense of a little comfort and a lot of soundstage.

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I never had the 598’s, but I have 580s and the HD-6xx. It’s not crazy for your DAC/amp combo to be double the price of the 6xx. First the 650/6xx sound significantly better with plenty of power, as noted by several elsewhere. I usually run mine with in iFi xDSD as the DAC in line-out mode, and a Schiit Lyr3 as the amp. Given the remarkably good value of the 6xx, the DAC/amp combo is about 4 times the cost of the Massdrop-Sennheiser.

And it’s a sound I listen to quite a bit.

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I used my Elegia daily at work for a couple months…the sound is neutral accurate, at least to my ears…a little dry. A warmer DAC amp combo helps some…I’ve used the 789 with them and while a great amp it is also a pretty dry neutral amp(not a bad thing) when I use the Elegia with my Cayin N6ii dap I enjoyed them more, I also really enjoyed them with my NiBL, the burr-brown DAC added that lil bit of warmth to the Elegia, same for the N6ii adding a bit of warmth.

Mind you, these are very small changes, but help with synergy.

The Elegia are great headphones, very technical, but not the most engaging, due to the neutral and dry nature, but that is my opinion. I’m a fan of the Sennheiser sound, but only currently have the HD800(sdrmod).

Based on your statements on preference I think the HD6XX would be a very safe bet for a purchase. As far as at work use case…maybe Campfire Audio IEMs? I’m not the biggest IEM guy but I found the Campfire Audio IEMs to be my favorites and the have good quality and pricing across the brand.

For closed back, depending on isolation needs…ZMF would be my suggestion for a “wow” closed back that is inline with what I’m assuming is your preference in sound. You can look for some of their b-stock closed backs or on the used market to see about getting a set at a lower cost.

Realistically, closed backs are tough, my favorites are well beyond your implied pricing minus the Elegia

1: ZMF Verite Closed
2: Focal Stellia
3: HD820
4: Focal Elegia
5: Campfire Audio Cascades (bass boys)
6: Fostex TH-X00 ( semi-open)

Another option…have you looked at wireless ANC headphones? Sony WHxm3, or Sennheiser momentum? Those are great options for work headphones but you have to deal with charging…depending on use.

Hopefully, that gave you some rabbit holes to go down.

Proof of my work setup…

Elegia work setup

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