This is a question for the general advice thread. Lots of people there will know. While many planars require a fair amount of power, the Sundara is far from the most thirsty. Unfortunately, I don’t have experience with that combination. Someone in the general advice will know. And it may be a different amp, not a more expensive amp.
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While it might be nice and convenient if your AV receiver is all you need for your headphone, unfortunately that is probably not the case. Unless you’ve hit the jackpot on receivers, most receivers just don’t spend much effort on the headphone out. Can you imagine if AV receiver producers spent more time on the headphone out than speaker out or the other processing that is required from a receiver? There’s definitely a good amount of knowledge out there for headphone amplifiers. The purchase thread is a good place to start.
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Look for a used Schiit Lyr 3. They’re often available for about $400-450, and often a couple of extra tubes will be thrown in. It’s got the power to handle anything you throw at it, the finesse to grow with you, and a bit of tube glow to bring a smile to your face.
It is not balanced. It doesn’t have to be. It’s got enough power to satisfy Bugatti Veyron owners.
Yes they perform the same task, but it’s not always making the headphones louder. Counter-intuitively, the output from many DACs into the headphone amp is often WAY too loud. (It’s not designed to drive headphones, don’t try it. Impedance mismatch, 11th dimensional wormholes, and Tesla hair may result, or worse). It is to provide the proper levels of sound to your headphones, be it louder or softer.
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Tested
PC–>DAC (Schiit Modi 3+/Audioengine D1) -->AMP ( Schiit Magni 3/Sony AX401)–> HD 820
Using only FLAC files
The DAC brand performs almost equally.
Schiit AMP drives the 820 like monster, sound is superb and volume get truly high. However, Sony AX401 performs equally, I little better I would say on audio clarity (doesnt add anything and the equalizer set to 0) but the volume is much higher than Schiit . One can say becouse is the entry level AMP and is solid state. I did tested a tube version, no much difference.
Im happy using the AX401 as my AMP, will get on of these days a much more vintage one just to enjoy old high receivers as amps.
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Without knowing which AVR, specifically, you purchased it’s hard to give proper advice.
I will say that, in general, AVRs are a) not particularly high-fidelity devices, b) don’t tend to beat $100 DACs on the decoding aspect and c) on the ones that have headphone outputs it’s either an afterthought using a basic op-amp or it’s tapped off the speaker outputs (if it has them) via a couple of resistors … and is even worse.
While individual tastes may mean neither the HD600 or Arya are necessarily the right headphones for you, any basic, competent DAC/amp combo will drive them properly. And if the result of that is harsh or gritty, it’s not the gear that’s at fault - it’s either the source material itself (e.g. if it’s YouTube content it’s probably a lost cause, same for non-paid tiers on streaming services) or something going on with what’s feeding the DAC.
By basic and competent, we’re talking about things like a Schiit Modi/Magni, or a JDS Labs Atom DAC+/Amp+. So $200 and change.
You say you’ve tried “DACS etc.” but we’d need to know how they were being fed/where in the chain they were, what the source material is/was and where the output of the DAC was going. If it’s looped in and out of the AVR then I’d say it’s still the AVR (or its settings) that’s at issue.
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More from the perspective that most AVRs have poor performance (they’re basically big boxes of major compromises) when used to take digital input to stereo analog output. Typically 100 to 1000x worse noise+distortion than a $100 DAC from Schiit, JDS, and various other manufacturers.
Never found one that had a decent headphone output. They’re either too low powered (usually insufficient available current, especially with planar headphones) or just outright garbage.
If you’re getting harsh/gritty sound out of things like the Ferrum ERCO, then then the problem is upstream. Likely your source material (at least in the case YouTube content). If it’s just that you don’t like the signature of what you’re hearing then either EQ or different headphones may help. Or whatever you had feeding the DAC was excessively noisy in regards to its USB VCC/GND lines (common with, say, gaming-PCs).
Yes, the headphones themselves are the most important part of a headphone system. But you don’t need to spend a lot to get excellent results. Any competent DAC + AMP and an HD580, 600, 650 etc. is more than enough to get amazing results. They should not be gritty or harsh AT ALL, unless the DAC is being fed crap.
Which isn’t to say you’ll necessary like how they sound … but you only complain about those two factors, and those aren’t normal at all in such gear.
What settings? There’s a gain switch and a logo brightness pot on the back.
Most likely. Could also be something wrong with the headphones. Have they ever sounded good, @Cyan69 ? Seriously, tell us a setup that you liked.
Things could also be hooked up weird. If, say, someone ran the analog output of the ERCO into an AVR, that would be a good way to mess it up, too. 
… which I’m pretty sure will be disabled when you plug headphones in, so …
While I am not going to speak for @Torq , as he is quite capable of doing it himself, let me see if I can break it down a little.
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The quality of YouTube recordings (and other similar files) is usually pretty bad.
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The quality of the DAC (digital to analog conversion) in AV receivers is usually pretty bad.
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The headphone amplification in AV receivers is almost always bad.
So… 3 bads sum up to very bad 
Now, it is possible that you don’t like the sound signature of the headphones you have and other headphones may give you a sound signature you prefer but… you still needed to deal with the 3 bads you have above.
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The source files. If possible, use decent sources such as flac or at least high quality MP3.
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The DAC. A JDS Labs DAC (or similar) that costs around $100 will do a better job than your AV receiver at digital to analog conversion.
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A JDS Labs Atom headphone amp (or similar) that costs around $100 will almost certainly do a better job of amplifying your headphones than your AV receiver.
So, basically, a 200 dollar dedicated headphone system with some decent source files will give you a good quality chain that is better at its job than the AV receiver (the AV receiver was designed to be an AV receiver, not a headphone DAC/Amp. The same way as a 200 dollar headphone system will do a very poor job at being an AV receiver).
Once you have that in place, and some source files that are of decent quality, you can then decide if the headphones sound signature is to your liking or not. But then it will be about personal preferences and not because they perform poorly.
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At this point I don’t know what you want us to say to you.
It seems like you just want somebody here to say “yes, your AVR is great, you need to buy a Susvara to have good headphone sound”.
This is exactly the same conversation that we had 3 years ago with a different AV receiver (just scroll up in this thread and you will see basically the same answers just with different brands being mentioned).
People have been trying to tell you (since 2020) but you don’t agree, so, the only thing I suggest is that you purchase whatever it is that you want to and learn from your own mistakes.
Learning this way is good but always more expensive.
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@SenyorC is correct about everything. What you are saying here is that aggressive and direct EQ adjustments are more noticeable than DAC changes. We all likely agree – DACs affect the overall clarity and cohesiveness of music and often slightly change tone/speed, but the effects are usually subtle. A DAC swap is often akin to driving a car with a dusty or greasy windshield versus a freshly washed windshield. You might not notice the difference (or that there’s a problem) until after you wash. I’m personally a fan of DAC upgrades because bright and sharp DACs make my ears ring and give me headaches, but if they don’t do that to you, just move on and enjoy the music.
Go to an audio show – there are about half a dozen around the country every year. Listen for yourself. I hear HUGE differences in DACs from $50 to about $1,000, and then find that they become a matter of taste. I heard the $13,500 Mola Mola Tambaqui in a couple rooms…and frankly didn’t enjoy it given the total setup. I’ve not enjoyed any Mytek DAC or amp that I’ve heard, and HOLO has sounded too bright to me on some setups. Expensive Chord, dCS, and Vinnie Rossi systems often sound great, but can sometimes be overly smoothed for my taste. And with speakers in particular, the room can obscure or override DAC, amp, and speaker differences. Trust your ears, and don’t feel you must spend more or upgrade to be happy. There are other hobbies in this world.
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Agreed… @SenyorC said exactly what I’ve been thinking. I went back and forth whether to even comment in this conversation because honestly I’m not 100% sure you’re not just yanking our chain here, but I’ll add a couple things in any case.
Your very first post/question 3 years ago…
The distilled answer without the added explanation has been, from the beginning, —- NO
That really could/should have been that. Then we could discuss from there but we’re (you are) still stuck.
Yep, see answer to previous question. It’s not a mystery- “Audiophile” or “High end” headphones and AVRs aren’t in the same conversation because they don’t go together.
Good lord… You don’t have a speaker amp! If you did you would also need a dac.(not 100% always the case but for the most part) You have an AVR. No one, no where is suggesting plugging a Susvara into an AVR. Again the dac is the issue (among other things). You’re conflating components. They are named and are separate things for a reason.
I have a similar setup as you. Denon 7600 for my HT setup but my headphone setup is completely separate. When I first got into the hobby with the Sennheiser 6xx I was using them off my receiver too. Actually didn’t know headphone amps and Dacs were a thing.
I started researching headphones and their related gear and jumped into the rabbit hole.
You have to differentiate the two paths. AVR is an easy solution for integrating your audio (with the ability for multichannel) and video, it’s in the name.
High end audio, speakers or headphones, require dedicated components to reach their full potential. Take headphones out of the conversation….do you see people running their audiophile/hi-end speakers out of an AVR? It’s very simple really… They are two separate paths
Good luck and happy cake day!
Edit: Just to be clear I’m not suggesting you need to spend a ton of money and go down that road. I’m just saying, as others have already, is that your Arya or whatever headphones you end up with are better served with gear that is intended for them. Again, as others have said, that does not need to be expensive for great results.
Is this 
yet?
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I’ve watched this conversation and the one a few years ago, and now that you seem to understand that home theater and high quality headphone sound are two different things, I’ll add my comments.
I understand you may not be in the US market area. If that is correct then iFi, FiiO, and Topping may be the easiest brands to consider. If you are in the US, then Schiit should also be on the list.
Personally I find that the best values tend to be in the mid or lower middle of the product ranges. While the best values may be in combination DAC/amps, buying separate DAC and Amp is often a good idea in the long run. In the short run the convenience of a combination product may be compelling.
I would suggest given your budget and experience level that you spend between about $400-650 on either a combination DAC/Amp or separates in any of the generally available major brands I mentioned.
Use the rest of your budget on better headphones after you have spent some time with your current headphones and the improved chain.
When I refer to your experience level, this is not saying anything bad. It takes time to learn to listen the way audiophiles do, and it may well not be worth the effort. I wish it were easier to UNhear stuff. And it takes significant effort also to learn the ins and out of electronic and audio chains. Think about how much you learned about home theater sinc you started.
By the way, if your Oppo player has an optical out or a USB out, it can probably be used as a source for most mid level equipment as I have suggested.
Of the brands mentioned I use Schiit, iFi, and FiiO and have been pleased with all of them.
There is nothing wrong with the JDS Atom, but I think that @Torq was citing that as an example and not as a specific recommendation.
The first thing you need to consider buying is a big bag of carriage returns and paragraph breaks. Then a book on how to use them.
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One of the things that has caused a bit of confusion is some looseness in naming. iFi has DACs that are on their lower end with the name Signature, and AMPs on the low end that are also in the Signature series (CAN refers to an amp) but no lower/middle signature models at present. There is the HIGH end Pro iDSD Signature that costs around $2K. There had been a signature DAC/AMP in the middle, the Micro iDSD Signature. That model is quite good.
FiiO tends to have a fairly technical sound. The K7 is in their midrange. It is probably a good compliment to darker headphones. I have the K9 Pro ESS, which is on their higher end, and is a bit smoother although not warm. It tends to disappear to my ear, which is a good thing - I can concentrate on other elements in the chain.
iFi has a bit of a house sound - it’s warmer than FiiO’s. I like it, many others do. I think @Lothar_Wolf is probably the iFi consumer expert here and there is an iFi rep on this forum.
Better is a loaded word, and you need to ask in what context and for whom. I happen to like most Schiit products very much and think they give good value for the money. Few people think that they do things wrong - rarely are the products fatiguing to the ear.
I understand that especially when buying stuff, and when it’s hard to find in your area, you don’t want to make mistakes. But better for one person may be different than for another. You need to learn what it is that YOU prefer. Measurements will hardly ever tell the whole story.
I really like Porta-Pros. I give them out to newbie audio people, to kids (niece, newphews, etc) so that they can hear a cheap compromise headphone that made all the right decisions. It isn’t an Arya, or even a Senn 58x or 6xx. But for what it is, it’s great. I have 4 pair, and use them for calls and casual listening.
I do not know the Arya’s. I have a Hifiman HE-560 v2 that seems to have miraculously avoided the quality control issues Hifiman had at the time. I like it a lot, but use it little because I’m slightly afraid I’ll break it. I listen to everything except country music product. And yes, what you listen to has a great bearing on things, mostly the headphone.
I like my Rosson RAD-0 for most things, especially classical, chamber, and jazz. I like my Hive Nectar for World. I like speakers for EDM, but also my Audeze LCDi4 “IEMs”. Different headphones differ markedly in things like soundstage, detail, range, and frequency response. Also when you start to listen carefully, slam, timbre, micro-detail. I find that the sound of closed earcups on some models drives me crazy. I like the foam of Porta-Pros (especially with YAXI Pads) but some people hate foam, especially when attached to GRADO headphones.
Yeah, it’s a big complicated world. Worry less about what you have and more about what you hear. Go to live concerts and pay for the good seats.
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Been a while since I’ve been here, but the mention of Denon receivers caught my eye. Some time ago I was in a local hi-fi store to audition ELAC speakers. I’ve long been a fan of the Heil-tweeter based models. To me, they have always sounded fantastic.
So, I’m in the store, and we’re trying to work out what to demo them with that is about comparable to what I have, and for some reason, they suggest a Denon receiver. The sound was rubbish. I had never heard ELAC speakers sound that bad before. In comparison, when they switched to a $15k ML amp, they sounded fantastic like I had expected.
I have a pair of ELACs now, and the power amp I use isn’t a regular hi-fi brand name model, it cost about the same as the Denon, and completely destroys it in capability.
This has really shown me how garbage Denon have become. I had actually been warned before about them, but had trouble believing that they could be that bad. They ARE that bad.
In the headphone world, near nobody uses, let alone recommends Denon or Marantz anything. They as good as don’t exist. I barely even see Denon headphones mentioned.
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Would like to read that. Since my Denon 4311ci has been going strong since it came out, and our other Denon the newer 4800 seems to be working great. But I don use my AVR for freaking headphones as the circuity is an after thought, always has been, but some people enjoy it for causal listening, to each their own… I have a separate headphone system for that with headamps and dacs/pre’s, streamers etc…
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In 2020 I responded to your very similar thoughts as follows (above):
I see nothing in 2023 beyond nostalgia. One may have warm fuzzy feelings about making technology work for the first time while listening to music one enjoys, but the satisfaction of the first success may never be matched again. Those old cassette systems absolutely sucked in every technical way…they were an awesomely hissy and compressed sound solution…
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Also, that $130 in the early 1980s is over $500 in 2023 dollars.
And even given that, a Schiit Fulla ($109 in 2023 dollars) is vastly superior by any reasonable standard.
Should be able to score an 80s Walkman + PortaPro setup for under $100 total on ebay.
Gonna be interesting to see where that one goes …
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Then I think you’re out of luck. Seriously. Nobody is trying to make stuff sound like that today.
Modern AVR (Denon x2500h) headphone section
Vintage (Marantz 1060) integrated amp headphone section
I guess this thread is as good a place as any to point this out.
Note that the vintage Marantz taps the speaker output and inserts dropping resistors (and nothing else) for the headphone output.
The modern Denon does the same thing (the dropping resistors are prior to the headphone PCB) BUT the Denon adds some inductors (aka coils aka chokes) and capacitors. Those chokes and caps are implementing a low-pass filter. I didn’t do the math, but I can see that the cutoff (or corner) frequency is in the MHz range, well above the audio band. Obviously, Denon isn’t doing that for fun; they feel they need to filter out the high-frequency noise that the video capability of the device is creating.
The values are low, so these aren’t expensive devices like, say, the chokes in the power supply section of some of Schiit’s more expensive gear. So, while the cutoff frequency is like 5+ octaves above the audio band, these things aren’t behaving like ideal passive devices either. I wouldn’t call it an afterthought, but I would call it a “we ain’t spending much money on this” approach.
I got my Marantz 1060 years ago for around $100. For that kind of money, it’s good value for me, as it sounds good driving OG Klipsch Heresy’s and the headphone output is OK. I would never consider an AVR for headphones, for the reasons outlined above.
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