AmpsandSound Amplifiers and Speakers builder

[Roark]

@Polygonhell

I just wish I could have tracked down the root cause in the environment.

Thanks for your response, when I think of environmental noise I would expect it to also affect other components in the same manner. Specifically other tube amps, where I had not run into those issues. On one tube amp I have, the noise could be traced to a power tube and that was quickly replaced with a another tube that fixed the issue.

@Roikyou

My point, I bet every amp has some kind of issue and I bet all have some kind of vulnerability to power issues and if dirty power is common, which I guess it is, how do you control it from the street and get good, clean power from the street? And filter noise from throughout your house from being amplified in these amps we use?

As a consumer I would like to find out why this brand is more susceptible to noise than other tube amps. What I find boggling is many responses so far have basically accepted it as an external fault, not a fault of the amp design itself.

So these noise issues, based on the few of you kind enough to share your experience it seems it’s a feature rather than a bug to live with it. Props to those of you who are able to overlook this, outside of @eric75 and his Kenzie Ovation all of the Amp&Sound amps suffer from the low level noise at a minim, it is hit or miss on the ground loop, or antenna like noise.

So for those of who have listened, but not owned any of the amps, what are your thoughts?

[huntca]

@Roark

Thanks for your response, when I think of environmental noise I would expect it to also affect other components in the same manner. Specifically other tube amps, where I had not run into those issues.

As you know, tube amps vary drastically in the way they are designed, so it’s difficult to say why other amps have decreased noise without understand the design of both amps. Which ampandsound amp have you had/heard and what other amp where you comparing it to?

@Roark

As a consumer I would like to find out why this brand is more susceptible to noise than other tube amps.

This would be a great question for Justin. Give him a call and ask, then let us know what you hear! He uses very high quality parts in his amps, but also uses a very simple/traditional design and I’m sure he’d be happy to explain why his designs may be more susceptible to noise compared to the design of the other amp you’re talking about. He might have some recommendations for your noise issue as well.

[generic]

@huntca

a very simple/traditional design and I’m sure he’d be happy to explain why his designs may be more susceptible to noise compared to the design of the other amp

Tube amps were historically hot, noisy, fragile, slow to warm up, and costly to maintain, whereby solid state amps were hyped beyond belief when they hit the market (e.g., see ads for the early 1970s Fender guitar amps). But in solving some issues solid state amps introduced others – such as often sounding terrible. Tubes are old, outdated, and primitive technology. They also have enduring and redeeming qualities.

[eric75]

I don’t think owners are blind to the fact that A&S amps are noise prone, and attributing that noise to factors other than the amp. I think its more that we just like how they sound, and despite the noise issues, are still drawn to them, and deal with it. My Pendant is noisy, and sure, I can say it’s a bad design and look elsewhere. But nothing I’ve heard yet sounds exactly like the Pendant, which I love. So I accept the noise for the overall enjoyment factor I get from owning it. The listening experience is rewarding enough that I just don’t care about the noise enough to abandon the amp.

[huntca]

@generic

Tubes are old, outdated, and primitive technology. They also have enduring and redeeming qualities.

Yes, these are my thoughts exactly. People enjoy tube amps for the same reason a person might enjoy vinyl or an older vehicle. Every song is an adventure and imperfections are part of the fun.

For those wanting dead silent background and “perfect” music reproduction, the secret is to replace the tubes with transistors… and now you have a solid state amp! They compliment each other nicely. We have both.

[dncnexus]

I think what is trying to be said though is there are tube amps such as DNA offerings that don’t have these problems of noise floors and are dead silent. So its not so much the fact that it can’t be done with tubes, rather it seems to be rather consistent that A&S amps seem to have a noise floor on most models and if that can be remedied by a potential different design.

Edit: I agree that maybe having a conversation with him about the trade off of his design and things such as noise floor for the acoustic advantages would be a good thing to have and something I too would like to know

[huntca]

@dncnexus

I think what is trying to be said though is there are tube amps such as DNA offerings that don’t have these problems of noise floors and are dead silent.

I totally agree and don’t think anyone is saying the ampsandsoundamps are noise free. I was trying to make the point that there’s no such thing as a generic “tube amp”. They all have different designs that happen to include tubes.

A DNA Stratus may have less noise than the amp you’re comparing it to, but I bet it sounds very different as well. It’s not necessarily “better”, it’s just “different”. This is why I recommended giving Justin a call because he can probably articulate some reasons why his amp sounds the way it does when compared to something like a Stratus.

If someone prefers the sound of the ampsandsound amp and it happens to have some noise, then they are likely happy to stick with the noise because they can’t get the same sound without it.

[eric75]

I do agree with you about other tube amps often/mostly being quieter. I’ve owned one DNA amp and have heard two others, and all were super quiet. In talking to Justin about my OG Pendant’s noise issues, he acknowledged his design is a compromise between his ideal sound profile, power output, and noise floor. When I compared my DNA and A&S amps, I personally liked the A&S sound a bit more, and accepted the noise issues. No knock on DNA though, those are some killer amps. I just really like the A&S house sound.

[Polygonhell]

@dncnexus

Edit: I agree that maybe having a conversation with him about the trade off of his design and things such as noise floor for the acoustic advantages would be a good thing to have and something I too would like to know

FWIW i did talk to Justin about my pendant, and I even sent it back to be tested, he couldn’t suggest a cause of the noise in my environment outside of power, suggested various power cleaning options all of which I tried and made no difference.
The conversation I had with him came down to if you can’t live with the noise on the high impedance out listen on the low impedance out and make a decision based on that.

To be honest I wouldn’t own another A&S amp unless I could be assured the noise problem was addressed in some way. It was too annoying to live with for me, it would have been one thing if it were a hiss, but a constant barely audible 60Hz hum, just stopped me enjoying it.

[generic]

@dncnexus

DNA offerings that don’t have these problems of noise floors and are dead silent.

Different circuits and different price classes. The electric guitar world is filled with people who got stuck on a specific amp generation and implementation of technology – usually because they want the tone produced by outdated hardware. It’s why we have commercial choices. Different horses for different courses.

See Fender Tweed, Brownface, Blackface, Silverface (drip tray)
See Marshall Plexi vs. JTM

[Wes_S]

Amen! Tube amps made by AmpsandSound are special, and I love mine.

[eric75]

The house sound they have just resonates with me, much like ZMF. And even better is ZMF and A&S have a synergy that’s hard to not like. I understand people’s issues with the noise. I’ve at times debated selling my Pendant because of it, but I just can’t bring myself to do it. Once the music starts I forget all about it and just enjoy the music too much to care. Man I miss my home office and listening to my tubes and ZMFs all day haha. I’m back in an office again I wonder if I can hide my Ovation or Pendant in my filing cabinet…

[boombap]

Seconding what others are saying - have had the Kenzie Ovation for about a week. It sounds absolutely dazzling - rich and detailed - and dead silent when running Verite Open off the 300/High Z tap, or Utopia off the 32 tap. Haven’t had a lot of experience with noise floor - this is my first high-end tube amp - but if there is any, I can’t hear it. Just my take.

[rrwwss52]

@eric75

12B4a (sub for 1626) with adapters can help and will roughly double up your output power if you need more output.

[Roark]

@huntca

Which ampandsound amp have you had/heard and what other amp where you comparing it to?

Mogwai SE compared to DNA Stratus, DNA Starlett, Woo Audio WA3, Bottlehead Crack, and even a DarkVoice noisy as hell OTL.

@huntca

This would be a great question for Justin. Give him a call and ask, then let us know what you hear!

Yes, I will when the time comes. The intention of my question is to hear from owners or those who have had a chance to listen to Ampandsound amps. I would rather have personal experiences prior to speaking to the builder/seller.

I am only borrowing the amp to evaluate, not for long term unless some magical genie comes in and removes these noise issues. I will say I have tried a number of tube rolls, including NOS and new production tubes, various cables, and placement in different locations. None of those changes had any effect on the noise produced, ergo it is inherent to the amp itself vs. environment noise.

@eric75

I think its more that we just like how they sound, and despite the noise issues, are still drawn to them, and deal with it.

Thank you, this is what I was trying to find out. You nailed it on the head.

@huntca

For those wanting dead silent background and “perfect” music reproduction, the secret is to replace the tubes with transistors… and now you have a solid state amp! They compliment each other nicely. We have both.

I think you are misunderstanding dead silent background with only being a factor in a tube amp. A tube amp can be silent, not silent in the solid state sense and not all solid states are silent either, I also have both in different varieties. My line of questioning is not an amp flex

@Wes_S

Amen! Tube amps made by AmpsandSound are special, and I love mine.

Kudos to loving your amp, would not expect anything less Wes!

Thank you all for responding, yet at as the day draw nears my question still has yet to be addressed.

So I will rephrase this for all reading and wanting to participate in the discussion; If noise is more common with high sensitivity headphones with his amps, such should be made clear to the consumer especially where he has no return policy. It would be another thing if noise was the exception not the rule.

Overall it seems like a compromise where higher power output and versatility to power planars and speakers comes with a tradeoff.

[rrwwss52]

If you sit close to your tubed amp, you can get a little tube buzz going. The headphones usually drown it out, but it’s there.

[chrisnyc75]

as someone who has experience with both DNA and Ampsandsounds how would you characterize their respective house sounds and how do they differ? I’m researching high end tube amps and I’m interested in both, so your perspective as someone who has owned both would be appreciated.

[Roark]

Moving this over here, where the bulk of the discourse is applicable:

@huntca

Noise is very much a subjective thing and some people really don’t care about minor noise because they enjoy everything else about the experience. Some other people (like youself) DO care about noise and that is also totally fine, but it doesn’t mean the product is “low quality”.

I would agree with most of what you stated, and would modify to say that level of acceptable noise is subjective.

I believe an amp of considerable cost, deemed high quality at a minimum should not have to be constantly tweaked to find an acceptable level of noise to enjoy listening. For example on the DNA Stratus or Starlett, both amps do not suffer from these type of noise issues nor involve any special power strip or DC offset filter. Both these amps are near equivalent in price point to the Pendant and Mogwai SE, granted the Mogwai SE and the other amps higher up the ampandsound line have speaker taps it is not an apple to apples comparison.

The point being is folks should be aware of the noise issue ahead of time, rather than finding out after the fact. Some commentary around using a lower ohm tap, or they are perfect with ZMF headphones, those are complete subjective and user driven decisions. Not all of us are going to agree on those particular things, and that is okay. It should be discussed openly, just as any component/product should be discussed openly.

The moment we jump into a groupthink mentality, the purpose of this conversations across these posts turns into fanboyism and meaningful information is left to the wayside.

[generic]

@Roark

So I will rephrase this for all reading and wanting to participate in the discussion; If noise is more common with high sensitivity headphones with his amps, such should be made clear to the consumer especially where he has no return policy. It would be another thing if noise was the exception not the rule.

It’s important to distinguish between individual perceptions of unwanted noise versus others who do not consciously hear that same noise. Each person has different sensitivities and hearing quirks, and any builder cannot be sure of what every consumer will hear or prefer. This is why some sell warm or bright products, and why diverse vendors stay in business.

My ears are incredibly moody sometimes, whereby the same track/album on the same equipment has sounded very different over time. My ears also habituate to different equipment, whereby it’ll sound noisy for a day or five and then perfectly clean. I take this as a function of training and adapting to the differences versus my prior equipment. The standard measurements surely wouldn’t change, but my perceptions do change.

Return policies…yeah…that’s always an issue with small boutique vendors. Many businesses employ 1 to 5 people so they can’t afford returns and still feed their families, let alone compete with Schiit’s or Amazon’s policies. Gear tours, audio shows, and buying used items are options.

[archer88]

Have you tried them on the Kenzie. How did you like them against the 1626s?