thanks for the excellent detailed explanation, this leads me to think about an external balanced amplifier
Hi,
Thanks for all your detailed review on the SP2000 T. I appreciate it a lot.
Please, just a quick one and I was wondering if you could help. I’ve just invested in the SP2000 T and I’ve also invested in the Meze Audio Liric to pair for my portable listening and on the go. I’ve also just purchased the Sennheiser HD800 S for at home critical listening.
The question… Do I need an external amp especially for the latter in connection with the SP2000 T? Or is the SP2000 T powerful enough to drive both headphones, maxing them out to their best performance without me having to invest in an external amp? If I needed an amp, which would you recommend? I was looking at the Sennheiser HDV 820. Please help correct my ignorance. I’m a newbie in the audiophile world. Thank you so much in advance and your reply will be much appreciated!!
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Think you meant to reply to someone else.
Thanks for all your detailed review on the SP2000 T. I appreciate it a lot.
Please, just a quick one and I was wondering if you could help. I’ve just invested in the SP2000 T and I’ve also invested in the Meze Audio Liric to pair for my portable listening and on the go. I’ve also just purchased the Sennheiser HD800 S for at home critical listening.
The question… Do I need an external amp especially for the latter in connection with the SP2000 T? Or is the SP2000 T powerful enough to drive both headphones, maxing them out to their best performance without me having to invest in an external amp? If I needed an amp, which would you recommend? I was looking at the Sennheiser HDV 820. Please help correct my ignorance. I’m a newbie in the audiophile world. Thank you so much in advance and your reply will be much appreciated!!
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I figured this would happen sooner or later, but my money was on later … quite a LOT later …
I came to do one of my periodic updates of the streaming clients I use on my SP2000 … and find that the latest version of TIDAL cannot run on the version of Android the SP2000 is stuck on.
That might be reasonable on a three-year old device. Except you can still buy the SP2000 new.
So, the question now is how long will TIDAL version 2.6.7 will actually work (i.e., is still supported by the TIDAL service). As soon as it is not, the SP2000 loses its ability to stream from TIDAL.
It’s only a matter of time before this situation affects other streaming clients as well.
And then it turns out you’re also stuck on a very old version of XAPK Installer (needed for XAPK packages). So, if there’s a change to the XAPK format that the old 2.2.2 version cannot read, you’re done there, too.
So … make sure you keep these older versions around in case, for some reason, you ever need to re-install them. And fingers crossed that the older clients continue to work with their respective services.
Not a great situation, and there’s no fix - as there are no plans/intent for A&K to update the version of Android on the SP2000 that I can uncover.
For me, now, this pretty firmly puts the nail in the DAP coffin. I was most of the way there anyway, but this bangs home the final nail.
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Hey Folks,
I have seen a few comments regarding the AK SP2000 and this line-in or lack thereof and I have a few questions please: I have been looking to possibly add a headphone amp in the mix with my SP2000. I am looking at the Cayin C9 and the KAEI TAP-1 DACs. I would like a bit more power and I would love a portable, tube sound added.
I would connect one of these aforementioned amps via a balanced 4.4 connection. I would do this in 1 of 2 ways- Silver Dragon Portable Mini Cable V3 (2.5 + 3.5 to a 4.4) or utilizing an iF 4.4mm to 4.4mm (silver/copper)Cable with a ddHiFi DJ44K 4.4mm Female to 2.5mm Balanced Adapter. That said, with this SP2000 line-in, does this make sense? Will this give me what I am seeking or is this not really necessary and is simply over kill? If I’m spending this amount of money on let’s say a C9, I want it to bring the best of what it has to offer and coupling this with a fantastic sound of the SP2000.
I hope these are not dumb questions?… I simply do not know and am open to knowledgeable opinions. HUGE thanks in advance!!
Line OUT not line-in.
You want to take the output from the SP2000.
It doesn’t have a line-in at all.
I would do it with an adapter like the ddHiFi DJ44K rather than a double-ended cable like the Moon Audio one … as it will be lower profile and is less likely to put unnecessary stress on the connections (the 2.5mm, in particular, is relatively delicate).
Personally I’d probably use a PW or Effect Audio version of such an adapter.
Make sure the cable between that and the amplifier is using all 5 connections, not just L+/- and R+/-.
The C9 is not particularly “tubey”. The particular balanced topology it employs results in cancellation of most of the even-order harmonic products, which is where a lot of that “tube” character would come from.
Never heard of the KAEI TAP-1 … but depending on how it does “balanced” it may have the same issue.
They’ll still be more “tube like” than the native output on the SP2000 … but nowhere near something like, say, a Woo WA8.
You will get more power.
You’ll want to make sure you use the “line out” setting on the SP2000 otherwise the volume control will be active and if you set it too high it’ll result in clipping the inputs of the amplifier it is feeding.
A&K outputs are generally very quiet - noise wise - so while you will be amplifying that as well as the signal, you probably won’t be able to hear that directly - where as a DAP with more noise/hiss on the output would be quite obvious if double-amped.
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Thank you for the speedy response! I have questions:
What is PW and what product would I possibly use of there’s? Also the same with Effect Audio… what product specifically?
Do you mean on the SP2000- Using both the 2.5 & 3.5 (which is what the ddHiFi DJ44K would do) in terms of the Amp- Let’s say it’s the C9 for example, I would use the 4.4 balanced connection only…correct?
When using the Line Out setting, what do you suggest I set the Output Options to? I think it is currently set to “Unbalanced 1.5V- Balanced 3V”… should I change this setting to something else when using/hooking up a headphone amplifier? I read what you wrote back in 2019 about using the line out and the steps to go about it… which was very helpful. I simply want to make sure I’m doing this the right way as to not damage anything and to get the maximum out of what ever I decide to go with. This is the “tech” stuff that I’m trying to get a better understanding of… so thank you soovery much for the time & energy…
PW Audio and Effect Audio. They make cables and adapters. You want one of their 2.5 + 3.5 to 4.4mm A&K adapters. PW Audio offer a few versions - choose the one you like the description of the best. I think Effect audio only offer one such adapter. They all do the same thing.
They are basically the same thing as the ddHiDi J44K … but from companies that I’ve heard of/products that I’ve used.
You put the adapter on the SP2000 … which means you then ONLY have access to the 4.4mm socket it provides… The cable you connect from that 4.4mm output socket to the 4.4mm input on the amplifier needs to be a 5-wire connection GND/SHLD, L+/- and R+/-.
Some 4.4 → 4.4mm cables only do the L+/- and R+/- connections, which will likely cause issues.
In general, you want the highest level output setting that does not cause the input stage on the amplifier you’re feeding to go into clipping (which will result in very obvious, obnoxious, distortion).
Which specific setting you use depends on the target amplifier and how much headroom it has on its input. A “proper” balanced input should work, without clipping, with a 4V signal. So the 1.5V SE/3.0V BAL setting should be safe. But, again, it depends on the input implementation/spec on the amplifier - you’ll have to look those up.
IF the amplifier you choose can handle a 6V input, use that.
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Wow!.. This ALL makes a ton of sense to me know!! MY GOD Thank you!!!
I have two final questions (Thank you so much for your patience & time)
Definitely going with the PW Audio A&K Adapter
As far as the two cable choices- here are the specs, I’d like to get your thoughts on what would be the best of the two:
A.
The iFi 4.4mm to 4.4mm cable employs heavy OFHC continuous cast copper and silver matrix conductors with a total thickness of 14AWG for the best signal transfer.
Whether you are connecting our ZEN series or other balanced components, our audiophile-grade cable will enhance your listening. It has been created to give you maximum quality balanced signal transfer and minimum interference.
SHIELDS TO MAX.
The cable construction is a custom helix design, minimised both in capacitance and inductance, minZ™.
It also has intrinsic shielding provided by minZ™ helix construction. They protect the cable from RFI and EMI noise and provide the cleanest transfer medium possible.
To further insulate the cable, we adopted the RoHS compliant, excellent dielectric property and super-soft (60P) HD polymer with 1500V AC spark resistance.
FEATURES
- 4N Oxygen- free copper ultimate conductivity and corrosion resistance.
- 5N Platinum pure silver minimal skin effect and impeccable audio signal transmission.
- RoHS compliant super-soft polymer for protection.
- Making it a multiple channels shielded cable.
- Braided for low-resistance path to ground.
- iFi’s own smooth surface connector and copper edge cut in a sharp angle to protect the 4.4 socket and extend lifetime.
- 1mm raised lip for precise connection.
OR
B.
SPECIFICATIONS
- Conductor: 27.2AWG (core) + 24.9AWG (spiral shielding)
- Conductor material:
- Litz Type II high-purity pure silver (core)
- Litz high-purity oxygen-free copper (black)
- Litz silver plated over long crystal copper (silver)
- Cable structure
- Φ0.05mmx7x7 strands x 8 strands (core)
- Φ0.05mmx7x14 strands x 8 strands (shielding)
- Inner insulation: Japan NUC chemical foam HDPE (made in Japan)
- Outer insulation: High transparency SoftFlex PVC (Made in USA)
- Plug: 4.4mm balanced, 24K gold-plated copper material
- Weight / Length: 15g / 10cm
and I’ve attached a screen shot of the specs on the Cayin C9 amp- It appears it can handle up to a 6V input… I think?
I don’t know about which would be the “best”; but if it’s long enough for your needs of the two I’d probably do the iFi one. Not because of the specs, just because it looks nice and flexible. The other one is almost certainly going to be too short, unless you’re planning on sticking the DAP and amp together, and I have no idea how flexible it is.
And … the wire/cable specs here are largely irrelevant* and/or meaningless - we can get into “why” if you like - but be warned that that’s “rant” territory.
…
On the C9’s inputs …
It looks like the input stage can handle 6V without clipping BUT in high-gain it’ll only take 3V to drive the amplifier to its maximum output. So both settings will work. On low-gain on the C9 with the SP2000 on 1.5V/3V you’ll only be able to achieve half the C9’s possible output power/level. On high-gain on the C9 with the SP2000 on 3V/6V you’ll cap the C9’s output at about the half-way mark on its volume dial.
So you’re best off either a) figuring out which gain setting on the C9 you use the most, and setting the SP2000’s output accordingly, or b) switching the setting on the SP2000 in accordance with which gain setting on the C9 you’re using at the time.
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Agreed. The Ifi does make the most sense it’s 11.8" in length so that I should be covered. In terms of the C9 Amp- I would mostly use LOW gain
and would set SP2000 to Unbalanced 3V -Balanced 6V - because I would strictly use a 4.4 balanced connection. That should give me more than enough amp power + feeling the effects and all that the C9 has to offer. I don’t think I would ever need to go to high gain, If I ever did, I think I’d adjust the SP2000 to the 1.5V/3V does that sound about right?
Yep, that’s the way to go.
One other note … do not try and charge and play the C9 and the SP2000 at the same time.
Why?
As a famous fictional parapsychologist once said, “It would be … bad”.
More on that … here.
YIKES!! I read thru that thread for a bit. It now has me seriously reconsidering the C9. Funny, I read on a different thread, something regarding battery life/charging etc. Do not let the battery drain out …BUR do not charge to 100%.
That makes sense and that’s pretty much what I’ve done with my phone and DAPS but this C9… seems a bit “EXTRA” in my eyes. Maybe a bit too delicate and it has me wondering… exactly how long is this unit going to really last. At that price… it better be AT LEAST 5 years!! I have some things to think about here for sure!! LOL!! @ Torq… Any really great/good/ solid portable or transportable amps you know or would recco? Something small or about the size of the C9… that works well with the A&K SP2000 and sounds AMAZING!!
Nope.
But if you don’t mind going a bit bigger, a bit more than double the weight, and only 4 hours battery life, the Woo Audio WA8 Eclipse sounds rather good (and is probably the most tube-flavored portable amp you’re going to find).
If you go with a WA8 … do yourself a favor and buy Woo’s 4.4mm interconnect; there have been issues with the WA8 with other cables.
Ahhhhh… got it! Yeah the WA8 is a brick… a BIG brick! But I hear it’s insanely good! I think I’ll audition it this weekend. I’m still on the fence about the C9, I think it should/will be just fine as long as I apply common sense (LOL!) If anything else comes to mind… ping me anytime! Lastly… YOU my friend are The Patron Saint of Audiophiles!! HUGE thanks for your time today, your patience and your knowledge…ALL greatly appreciated!!! Thank you @Torq have a great evening and weekend!!!
pB-
@Torq … Good Morning/Afternoon,
Hope all is well with you on this Friday! I was thinking, I never shared the headphones that I would be using with this C9 amp or whatever I actually go with. Here they are with their impedance:
Sony Z1R- 64 Ω at 1 kHz
Meze Liric(Planar)-Impedance: 30 Ω
Meze 109 Pro-Impedance: 40 Ω
Not sure any of this makes a big difference or any difference at all. They are easy to drive, all of them. Just wanted to include this fact based on the great advice you provided yesterday. Does this change any of your earlier thoughts?
Lastly, I ran across this amp last night and read thru some reviews on it… its sounds incredible but &^%$$#@! it is crazy pricey… in fact everything they make, especially the cables and interconnects are ridiculously priced!! It’s the Brise Audio TSURANAGI Portable amplifier.Plus a couple other portable amps they make/made… Are they THAT good?
None of those need an amplifier; the SP2000 can deliver far more power than any of them need (or will be able to use).
Note that impedance only tells you what the ratio of voltage to current will be; it’s the sensitivity/efficiency rating that tells you how hard something is to drive. But, none of those need more than 100mW to hit 120 db/SPL.
You can see how much power, and the voltage/current requirements for most audiophile headphones using my tool, as well as what various amplifiers/sources can provide, and how they pair up.
Any amplifier you pair with them may add distortion, noise and color (a nicer word for distortion) but the extra power isn’t going to make much of a difference there.
Never heard of it.
And if I have, I don’t remember.
But I’d be highly unlikely to buy a $2,500 amplifier, for which no specs are posted, from a company selling $3,000+ cables. And I’d suggest that anyone buying $3,000+ cables for a $2,000 headphone had completely lost whatever tenuous grip on reality they may once have had.
WOW!! And there we have it!! Thank you much!!! No amp it is!! Thank U!
Just curious, and this may be a dumb question, but there is no GAIN change on the SP2000 is there? The power is wha the power is correct? Example: There is gain change on the Kann Max & Kann Alpha… but none on the SP2000?
Lastly, any experience with the SP2000T? The “tube sound”, power output, overall sound in comparison to the SP2000…
Nope.
Which tells you nothing about anything other than … it doesn’t have gain settings.
They’re nothing special. And generally higher-gain settings just mean a) less range on your volume control and b) higher output for a given input level. They don’t change the power rating of the amplifier.
Sometimes it can affect qualitative aspects of performance, but it shouldn’t unless there is something odd about the design. A specific amplifier of 1W output capability, driving the same load, is doing the same work, with the same distortion and noise characteristics if it’s outputting100mW regardless of whether it is in high or low gain mode. The only difference will be the position of volume control to do it.
Gain settings are, thus, mostly useful for ensuring you have enough range on the volume control for a given headphone from a given input. The SP2000 has enough range (150 steps) without needing such things, given that it is not super-powerful vs. something like the KAAN models.
Yes. Don’t think the power output is any different. Tube sound is noticeably tubey, but comes at the cost of higher noise (A&K units are typically ultra-quiet … not the case in Tube mode here). Didn’t like its solid-state output as much as the SP2000 … which is probably down to the difference in DACs and/or other changes needed to accommodate the “tube”.
Suffice it to say that while it was the kind of unit I was looking for after the N8 … I didn’t buy one.