Good choice, I use a restored Pioneer SX-1250 myself. The cans really pump a lot of juice.
I had to laugh when I read the title of this thread: “Currently Perceived ‘End Game’”.
Like so many, I feel that I have achieved my End Game headphones (Utopia, Stellia, Verite Closed and SR1a’s), but that is why it is so funny to present this as “currently perceived” Until the SR1a’s came out, I felt that the Utopias were my end game. And until the “next great headphone” comes out, so will the SR1a’s remain.
But for me, each “end game” headphone is end game for a specific location, a specific activity, a specific genre of music - I guess that is why I still have four TOTL headphones, and use all of them.
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Haha, that’s why I phrased it that way! 
I agree with your sentiments. It’s more of a right tool for the job situation, imo. And as technologies improve so will our list.
Cheers!
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I’m happy to say I’ve finally got a Stax 009 System I’m quite happy with. I can’t imagine I’ll be putting together another system for/around it… for a while! An technically in terms of solid state [an digital] the Bricasti M3 w/Headphone & Network is it, just waiting on my DHT Tube Amp for my Dynamics and I’ll be all set!
Meaning, I’ll work on getting some more headphones that I’ve been wanting
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I think the worst part about this hobby is that even if I somehow managed to achieve of what I perceive a “perfect” sound (which would only work if all recordings were mixed to the same general standard), after enough time has passed, I would probably still simply get a bit bored with it and want to try something else (and continue circling around).
On a more reasonable scale, what I do intent to find are more “keeper” headphones besides the two I have (which can be considered as one, since they are separate copies of one) and if this “team” expands just a little bit, then I may start considering upgrading other things and lift them up further.
The problem with some companies is that they regularly tweak their TOL models in a relatively short period of time. Personally, I am not sure about this, since a ‘statement’ product should be like that for many years to come.
But, to be fair, the models I consider to be like that were coming from companies who already had a long history with headphones.
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Welcome to the community! You might find this thread interesting:
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Yeap, multiples works very nicely tho honestly two is often enough
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There will never be an end game as long as development of new components takes place and a persons budget and personal health can keep pace… Why stop when your having so much fun. 
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Well this is awkward, at the time I had no idea of the scale I would change my system.
Metrum Pavane as good as it is has been manhandled by the Wavedream signature.
DNA Stellaris is now the third best which by my rules means it has to go.
MySphere had been dethroned, weirdly by the HD650 and now I have the Utopia addition.
The Lynx AES16e LPS powered no fan PC bla bla is replaced by the Pi2AES.
Basically it’s a whole new system, my previous end game is still very much end game but…and as we all know nothing before but has any importance.
But, it’s a natural progression for a ten year intensive search, some gear you look for, some looks for you. What I’ve learned:
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The Wavedream is a gamechanger, all dacs from bottom to Dave are closer to each other than to the Wavedream, it starts from the DAC or DAC+Transport, having a no compromise solution means the rest grows in value. It’s like a gaming PC, Say you have a 2000$ with a 2060, put a 3080 for 700$, cost goes up 35% but gaming experience is 200%.
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99% of headphone amps are gimped, not intentionally but as no one has the option to listen to a true high end no compromise tube headphone amp, it’s like they don’t exist.
To get an idea, a Thomas Mayer DHT amp will be 10K+, to go on the upper level expect 20K. A custom DNA amp to this level is 20K+. I wouldn’t now touch any other amps.
DIY allowed me to build to the same quality for component price only, no labour or research cost.
The science is nothing new, actually in tube amps there hasn’t been anything new since the 40s, component quality has somewhat risen with impressive capacitors, transformer cores and windings, modern tube quality is hit and miss. My own amp is 50/50 vintage/new.
My question has always been, what does the top 1% sound like? Many claimed to know the answer, I followed and was disappointed so had to do my own search, many times I though I knew the answer and it slipped away, finally I know the answer.
The top 1% sounds pretty damn awesome, it’s not a case of looking for faults but how great it can be, how deep into the music you can hear, how much information extracted and sheer the level of enjoyment. HD650 lack of bass and detail…lol. Utopia small stage…it’s huge. This is coming from someone really disappointed in many flavours of the month in their time many swore by, Yggy/GSX MK2, Moon 600i/JPS 1266, the legend of Dave and many many others.
One valuable lesson, almost all headphones are gimped because of this, on a low to mid level system the difference between HD59X,HD650,Utopia,Verite and others is pretty vast.
At the very top they’re shades of the same bite the back of your hand astonishing listening experience.
Currently Perceived “End Game”
Wavedream Signature DAC, DIY no compromise tube amplifiers and a 200$ headphone.
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Interesting results and congrats (even if for the time being TBD). If I’m interpreting you correctly:
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TOTL DAC and amp are most impactful, and allow for having more budget headphones and streaming devices.
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Almost all amps and headphones are gimped. The better the system, the less important the headphone. Can you please elaborate on this?
How important are tubes now in your system?
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Love that you’ve found what works for you.
Don’t care for the absolutist/definitive way it’s stated. This is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with the “online” side of the audio hobby. Specifically … that people think their personal reference/preference is universal.
It isn’t.
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Yeah, I get it but in a way, it’s also detrimental to think that it’s personal, I’m approaching this from a technical view based on my multiple observations/experiments and impressions from technical forums, not audiophiles wannabes.
There seem to be some universal truths among tube amplifier/preamp builders(don’t care for SS):
- Not using a cathode capacitor is always a positive outcome.
- The last capacitor in the PSU is in the audio path and of paramount importance.
- Correctly implemented directly heated tubes have lower distortion and better spaced curves than the best indirectly heated tubes. There’s no one who would choose an IDHT such as 6SN7 over a DHT such as type 26 for SQ quality alone.
- Winding technique for output transformers is crucial along with core material.
- Using chokes is always beneficial for filtering.
- Directly coupled stage is better than capacitor/interstage coupled, a single stage is ideal but only usable in very niche cases.
- The typical conductive plastic found in all commercial headphone amplifiers is mediocre at best compared to optocouplers, autoformers or TVCs
These seven rules are never implemented in commercial amps and it’s just the tip of the iceberg.
To put it a different way, all commercial tube amplifiers:
- Use electrolytic cathode bypass capacitors, not even film.
- Use electrolytic caps for psu, only the highest quality amps use audio quality ones, no one uses films.
- No one does fully DHT, at most for the output stage.
- Off the shelf generic output transformers in 90% of cases.
- Generic PSU filtering, very rare to see choke input or multiple choke filters.
- R/C stage with average caps at best for 90% of amps
- Everyone has conductive plastic for the volume pot.
Each point takes a chunk of the audio quality, overall it’s a lot of chunks and we’re left with not much even with the highest of high end amps. I would have expected someone to fill us in about how far audio quality can go, DIYers have known for a long time yet there’s a wall between them and the typical audio headphone dude.
Take care of all those points and the result is astonishing, very much a weak link scenario. The frustration comes from not having a benchmark, even at canjams or meets I never had a chance to listen to an amplifier with as few compromises as possible even at cost no object, because they don’t exist.
Posts on HF from 15+ years ago show people knew what high quality audio is, somehow we’ve gone backwords where the headphone is in full focus instead of amp/headphone and the amps have stagnated or got worse.
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You know, I actually believe it’s possible to develop a perception-oriented test suite that would quantify and predict the majority of audio preferences (both for for specific individuals or the population of enthusiasts). However, it would be quite expensive to execute and probably not worth the effort (i.e., for just a recreational hobby). Both biology (hearing potential) and perceptual biases can and are understood in great depth. This was the basis for MP3 and compression – it could be extended further. The absolutist problem is the lack of knowledge and poverty of imagination.
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It is ABSOLUTELY personal.
You have no reference beyond your own experiences and preferences.
You have not heard everything.
You cannot speak for others, in either domain.
Everyone has different hearing response and preferences.
The mere notion that any one person knows what is best for others is so far out of whack is to devolve into absolutely quackery.
Over on SBAF you tried to tell me what I would prefer. You were not even close (and had not even heard the stuff I was talking about).
Get over yourself.
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There seems to be some personal issues from another forum spilling over here. Maybe @taronlissimore, @andrew can step in and make sure this doesn’t continue.
I’d like to see this thread remain peaceful.
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You won’t see me here anymore…
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The following is not aimed at anyone in particular. But, please keep in mind…
I think the problem is people thinking they are the only protagonist, this is the real world everyone else here are protagonists as well and not NPCs in “your” game of life… respect each other and their opinions…
I like x and you like y, does not make either wrong! Please remember this… also my experiences are not yours and vice verse.
Keep it respectful and don’t dictate or tell others definitive statements about what “they” will/should like…
It is ok to have differing opinions and experiences… try and learn why in a respectful way! Or just agree to disagree and not comment.
This is a hobby forum, a place to discuss one of the things that brings us joy in this crazy world, let’s keep it that way!
As the great and wise Bill and Ted said “Be excellent to each other!”
Respectfully, your friendly neighborhood Moderator
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@TylersEclectic I would like to see more of this, because it has become alot less and alot more of “I feel the same way”
Threads often get trashed with personal feelings and emotions here.
not trying to derail just stating that we cant pick and choose.
Is one flat line.
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At the end of the day it’s whatever helps you enjoy the music. That’s my end game.
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I’m not sure why you’re picking on me and keep mentioning SBAF in multiple posts, seems very personal to you, I made a comment three years ago when I didn’t know any better and regurgitated the popular opinions, life is too short to hold grudges or have ptsd over internet posts.
I’m sorry I said your WA234 isn’t good.
I wanted to make a point for what’s best for dynamic drivers especially high impedance and how far they can be pushed, it’s not about the users, each should already know by now, always listen with your ears, never trust reviews, most lack an absolute reference.
I’ve had over 20 tube amps over 10 years, 10 of which I’ve built myself based on otl,set and parafeed, tinkered with every part of the circuits to find the hows and whys, push values and materials to either extremes to understand behaviour, discussed with other DIYers for feedback, researched established material, experimented with the popular fleawatt concepts and compared those to the very well regarded amps on the market and custom designs.
I’m not selling anything, just sharing my impressions and journey on an audio forum, and making a claim for my view on what’s best for dynamic headphones as a dynamic enthusiast, what I liked before and what I like now and why. This experience was pretty eye opening, and has real potential.
Alright, you made your point, I’ll be on my way and stop.
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