Where the tech bros meet the fine art connoisseurs: “Timex vs Rolex”
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This is the key point, isn’t it. Whether there’s a scientific explanation to support your enjoyment doesn’t really matter, as long as you enjoy it. If someone thinks they can hear differences between USB cables, or they think they can’t hear differences between USB cables, doesn’t really matter.
I’m in the synergy camp: I do think that all components matter, as long as they balance each other.
Like many others, I originally sunk most of my audio budget in headphones (Stellia and Verite) but I think that worked out because I had a good DAC and amp in a Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3. Since then, I’ve tried several headphones and only bought a couple (RAD-0 and Aeolus), focusing my purchases on DACs or amps, because changing the electronics was helping me achieve my goal over buying more headphones.
Over time, I’ve learned about what I like and don’t like and have changed my DAC, amp and cables to get me closer the sound I’m looking for. Every time I thought I’d reached “end game”, I tried other gear and then moved the goalposts. And I’m fully aware about diminishing returns, and that I could easily have stopped buying much earlier in my audio journey and still been happy, but it’s fun to keep learning - it is a hobby after all.
I’ve tried a few high end DACs over the last few months (Yggy, TT2, Mojo Mystique X for extended periods, and Dave and Weiss DAC502 for short demos), and it was interesting how different they all were to each other. For the first 3, I either borrowed the unit or it came with a good return policy, to try to counteract any bias. I liked them all and although there were some aspects that didn’t work for me, I could totally see why others like them. I’m about halfway through my trial period for the Mojo, but I don’t think I’ll be sending it back, because I like what I’m hearing vs the Yggy (and I never thought I’d ever type that, because the Yggy is awesome).
I really love my ampsandsound Nautilus, and don’t see myself replacing that as my tube amp. Maybe I’ll get an OTL one day, to complement it.
The only thing I’m expecting to buy in the future is a solid state amp with pre-outs to replace my Burson Soloist (which I use for headphones, and love the sound, but I don’t want to use as a preamp because it only has XLR out, and I also don’t like the UI) and Jot 2 (which I only use to drive my powered monitors).
So I suppose this was my long-winded way of saying that I do think DACs and amps matter.
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How do you high-five on this forum?
I read a lot more than I post here, partly because you often say what I would say. Maybe because I was an engineer before I became a teacher?
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Lou
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I don’t think I would say it that way. It’s the reduction of “watch” to “timekeeper” that is (part of) the problem. Or saying that “watch” excludes “jewelry.”
What’s the difference between “This thing looks nice and keeps time well enough” and “This thing sounds good and its THD+N is low enough”?
Lou
(Watches Rolex/Omega vs. Casio/Timex debate despite knowing, as someone with a small watch collection, that watch collectors have unironically liked both for many years now…)
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I quoted your entire post because I personally belief your journey is a prime example of what someone should do - the “right” way to do it, if you will. It’s the best route to take in order to find the best synergistic system IMO.
I’ve played devil’s advocate in this thread some, but in case it’s not apparent, I too believe DACs and amps matter. I think finding the ideal headphone first using mid-fi amps and DACs is the way to go about things - then continuing to upgrade the latter in order to achieve the best synergy - but I’ll never judge someone for doing it the opposite way. The only thing that matters in the end is that we find great enjoyment with our systems; that includes everything from the source to the listening chair.
Happy listening all!
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You know why I appreciate this community?
Because during this long ongoing discussion not once did someone say a DAC/AMP mattered if it had enough RGB lighting or not.
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That sir is an epic post 
!
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Which version of the Yggy were you listening to, and why did you choose it? (if you don’t mind me asking)
Also, Burson makes an XLR to RCA adapter for their amps, which makes your Soloist more versatile as a preamp should you wish to use it with RCA connections.
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I originally borrowed a gen 5 Yggy and liked it enough to buy a used gen 5 for myself. I then bought and installed the Unison USB upgrade myself.
I know that but I like the simplicity of the switch on the Jot 2 to turn the preamp outs on and off vs using the Burson UI, which I’m not a fan of.
I tried the Burson Soloist 3X GT at CanJam today. It sounded awesome and has SE pre outs, but as @driftingbunnies mentioned in a previous post about that amp, I couldn’t use the volume beyond 5-10 (depending on the headphone) in low gain with efficient headphones, which makes it unusable for me. It probably sounds amazing with a Susvara but I wish that Burson had thought through the usability with other headphones.
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That’s disappointing and interesting (surprising?), as I actually own both the Yggy and the Soloist 3X GT. I have the OG A2/Unison Yggy, connected to the Soloist via XLR. I’m using mostly ZMF (Aeolus, VO and Atrium), with a DCA Noir and 1 or 2 others in the mix. Headphone connections to amp are usually balanced plug.
I use mostly medium and sometimes low gain, seems to work fine. Volume is usually in the 30s on medium gain, sometimes more, less only if I want a low background setting for the music.
It sounds like there must be some kind of gain or output mismatch to the Burson, perhaps? Or to your DAC? IDK for sure with your setup… Can you adjust the output from your music app? I use an iMac as a Roon Core, and with Apple Music to the Yggy.
Anyway, that’s a bummer. The Soloist 3X GT sounds pretty sweet with the Yggy, I could notice an improvement compared to Bifrost 2 to Soloist, which already sounded pretty great! 
Please post if you figure out a solution, good luck!
Sorry, I just realized you said “at Canjam”, not your own setup, so disregard the above…
Still, I can report fine results using Soloist 3X GT using the headphones I mentioned.
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Good point about the usability of the GT. The one I listened to at CanJam was connected to a Holo May. I just looked up the May and it has a pretty hot 5.8V output, compared to the 4V of the Yggy so that must have been the reason.
I couldn’t go above 4 in low gain with a LCD5 and got up to about 9 or 10 with some other Audezes.
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This works really well to isolate the electrical noise. Well, in my case between my beefy gaming PC and VMV D2 DAC, amazing sounding DAC but no galvanic USB implementation in this case. Before the Intona box, sometimes I could hear the whirring/distorted sound went through my DAC and AMP. I went for the 7055-B though, the USB 2.0 version.
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Yeah all of their units will provide top tier isolation.
The main differences are in output noise (which is really low on all of them. Just lowest on the 7055-c if you want that just in case) and usb 3.0 capability
For audio use the one you got is pretty perfect
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some more interesting Dac adjacent content.
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Good informative video!
The Singxer SU-6 was one of the option I considered before I went with the Intona’s solution. I am sure it would do the same excellent job cleaning the noise issue but the I2s limitation of 384KHz kind of bothering me since I use the 700KHz+ scaling with HQ Player. Maybe the I2s route would net a better sound quality vs the Intona’s USB solution or maybe not but one thing I know will drive me crazy is the “Singxer” logo print 
That thing doesn’t match with anything I have on my desk. Weird, I know 
.
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Does your GSX-mini run hot?
Solution: AIRCOM S6, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Blower System, Rear Exhaust 12" - AC Infinity
Makes a huge difference in cooling….
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By no means are my methods of testing perfect and I used very basic means to test all of this.
I used ROON(exclusive mode)> PC> USB> DAC.
Used for testing was a S.M.S.L SU-9 as a DAC and AMPS used were CAYIN IHA-6, REBELAMP, S.M.S.L SH-9 and A&S MOGWAI SE.
HP Used were Focal Radiance and LCD-5.
I did similar testing a year a go with SS AMPS and a few DACS like the topping A90 AND D90 Stack and other SS Amps and a little dot mk2 and posted similar results on a facebook headphone group and was bombarded with comments like:
ITS YOUR USB CABLES, YOU HEADPHONES ARENT REVEALING ENOUGH, YOUR POWER SUPPLY MUST BE AFFECTING THE SOUND, YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR EARS ETC ETC ETC
I since tried better USB cables and a more expensive power brick, more expensive power cables but these did nothing to the results.
My current pc motherboard has even got a specific ISOLATED USB SLOT FOR DACS. This should make no difference anyway but thought I would mention it.
I know my power is clean as the house was built about 7 years a go and I get no noise from my gear.
Not even the Mogwai SE.
Unless I use the Radiance and go to high with the volume I get a very slight hiss.
Songs I used are to many to list. Easily more than 100 songs but mostly EDM as this is what I listen to the most and know how it should sound but also but rock, jazz, heavy etc.
I am just shocked of how similar all my amps sound. Specially the SS stuff as the difference is not perceivable from my ears when switching across from one amp to the next wen volume matched.
The Mogwai SE is obviously different sounding but still not as much as what I thought.
I must say it does change depending on what tubes I am using.
So far the stock tubes 6l6gc sound the closest to my SS amps just with a slight roll off in the treble from what I can detect but with the KT88 fitted there is definitely more change is the sound and more enjoyable to me as the hole reason I wanted the Mogwai SE was for is (different sound) to SS Amps.
I feel like the bass is thicker and slamier. But I need to do more testing to this as it takes a lot of time.
So my experience so far is as long as your amp has enough power and is a good impedance match for your headphone there is no reason to go to expensive on this sort of stuff. Unless you go high end tube amp like a Mogwai SE for example and want a very specific flavor for your headphones.
I strongly agree with Resolve when he says spend most of your money on headphones as these do make a massive difference on how sound/music is presented. Amps and Dacs are not as important as most reviewers make out them to be.
Example of this is when I go from HD600 to a Arya the difference in how my music is presented and how it sounds to me is absolutely massive. When I go from amp A to B the change is so so small if any I personally can’t tell a difference.
Hope this helps.
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In my experience these aren’t the best candidates for tube amps. The Radiance has 35 ohm impedance while the LCD-5 is just 14 ohms. Both are likely to be affected by current delivery more than tubes.
I use my tube amps mainly with high impedance headphones, to include 300 ohm Sennheisers and one set of 600 ohm Beyerdyamics. To my ears these are much more affected by tubes (and they also tend to be nuanced in the midrange),
I developed my long duration fatigue-oriented test method in part because rapid AB swaps sounded about the same to me, but some setups gave me headaches, tinnitus, or grated on me over time. I contend that rapid switching causes auditory masking and/or happens before habituation can occur. There’s a lot of research about valid perception science test methods, and AB or ABX tests may fail per one of many pitfalls.
I’m a solid believer in tubes because of how they affect my body after long listening sessions. When you listen for an hour and your ears ring with a specific setup…it’s obviously doing something different than a setup that doesn’t bother you… To my ears tubes mainly add harmonics and smooth transitions. Problem setups typically have sudden transitions (e.g., edgy, brittle THX amps), excessive treble (too loud vs. other frequencies), or dirty treble (random noise or spray). I can’t comment about your tube amps in particular.
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I do own a 300ohm beyer and hd600 I just don’t listen to them as much hence why I used my most used HP in my collection.
Should have pointed out that both of the HP used in my very basic testing were on the 8ohm tap of the Mogwai.
If I use the Radiance on the 32ohm or the HD600 on the 300ohm yes I do incur a bass boost.
Hence why I didn’t use them for this test.
My personal opinion is this is the best way of testing this sort of thing. I think that quick a/b testing is the best way to tell any differences in how a amp/dacs affects my music.
As previously stated a lot of my original thoughts of the MOGWAI when I tried more extensive listening testing like you are suggesting instead of quick a/b was simply placebo.
I agree I feel like the edges are less sharp and make a more enjoyable pleasant/easier experience but this is very slight difference and very difficult to notice the difference unless you really tone in to it.
Also this affect could be due to the slight roll off from the treble/air by the amp.
The point I am trying to make is that all the SS Amps I have tried so far sound the same to me and while A/B could not detect any additional detail, soundstage, extra bass etc etc
Only when using the Mogwai did I notice a very slight difference.
I am just shocked how many reviews online of amps and dacs and how they make out like these things make a such a huge difference when the reality they don’t.
Buying a new headphone will make a much much bigger difference.
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