Not sure whose ears these categorizations are based on, but I consider 100db very loud, like maybe 1 song and I would have to turn it down. Is it me?
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I am in your camp listening to 75 -85 dB range average, there are few songs that peak close to 100.
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2w single-ended Class A if I recall well, I got the numbers from Focal. Contrary to what many believe the DAC V1 is just that, a DAC. It was not meant to be a preamp and frankly, I never used its HAMP but for once or twice, it it is meant to forward the analog signal where it will be taken better care of. For this purpose it is overly expensive. The new Micromega Focal/Naim are pushing is better adorned but also more expensive.
EDIT: But from what I’ve read, the Micrmega does a better job. It is uncertain at this point if Focal/Naim will outsource all of its DACs or if Micromega was a one-time venture meant to satisfy Focal headphones owners, for which this Micromega model was made-to-order.
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I would hesitate to say everything, but everything from oBravo (that I have heard). Their $10k Ra C Cu sounds worse than most $5 dinky earbuds I’ve listened to and I don’t know how he keeps getting away with it.
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I’m going to throw my hat in the ring with both the Westone W80 and Shure SE846. While both are fine headphones, I think they are pretty outclassed by the competition in similar price ranges and are somewhat outdated at this point. The Andro, MEST and Solaris are all better options at their price points in my opinion.
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Nooooo not my beloved 846’s. Lol. I do agree though that they don’t offer great value when compared with others on the market. I guess I’m still a little nostalgic with my 846’s. I won’t pass comment on the Westone.
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@Rickruss
I’m a Susvara owner. Obviously the perceived quality of an item, especially relating to something so subjective as how well they sound, is obvious
.
Well, can’t argue about that
I would, nevertheless, suggest that to truly compare a headphone for its sound quality against others, it would be necessary to provide sufficient power, in the case of the Susvara.
In the case of many others as well. Nowhere has it been truer than when you want fair meat you have to feed the hog fair fare.
The analogy I would suggest would be to conclude that a new Porsche doesn’t appear to be a great car/great engine, if one were to use a lower octane gasoline, given higher octane gas is required. My Susvara’s are driven by a Woo Audio WA33( sufficient fuel), and they perform very well.
I have driven the Susvara with a variety of amps however none from Hifiman, or none on which it sounded like a $6,000 phone could. But I am aware that there are some out there that can do just that and, hopefully, do it with more than one model. It’s the Stax factor I’m weary of. 
I think @taronlissimore was aiming at the value indeed. Nowadays you can get more advanced designs for the same roughly $700.
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Yes, of course I was only messing. As I mentioned they don’t offer fantastic value in today’s crowded market. I also didn’t pay full price for them and got a great deal on them when I purchased them.
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Question is if you nock $1.5-2K off the price of Susvara, you are now in Utopia price territory along with LCD-4, and close to a ZMF Vertie LTD. Do you change your mind? You see Openbox close into this price range.
My only knock opening the box that is a knock to a premium headphone experience was the cables. I Hifiman should use the same cable vendor as RAD-0
Personally, I find it to be a great headphone. You do need amp that can do do high voltage swing and also higher currnet output support.
I have been listening to them up against the following amps, ZMF Pendant and Headamp GS-X Mini with Qutest and Bifrost with Qobuz. Personally they are one of the best headphones in my stable.
The weight and comfort are very good especially up against LCD-4.
my currnet prefred playback amp
The stable
- Audeze LCD-4
- Focal Stelia
- Hifiman HE-1000SE
- Hifiman Susvara
- Rosson Rad-0
- Sennheiser HD-650
- ZMF Vertie
They are most hungry of this wave that uses standard headphone amps until you get to RAAL SR1a Ribbon or going with an Electostat headphones
But you need an AMP that had larger volatage swing and can also have to higher current output
Looking power needs the Stelia and Utopia were designed to run on iPhone Dongle or iPad.
| 85 dB SPL | Voltage Needed | Current Needed | Power Needed |
|---|---|---|---|
| Stelia | 0.02 Vrms | 0.57 mA | 0.01 mW |
| Utopia | 0.03 Vrms | 0.38 mA | 0.01 mW |
| LCD-4 | 0.11 Vrms | 0.55 mA | 0.06 mW |
| Aeon Flow Open | 0.04 Vrms | 3.08 mA | 0.12 mW |
| AB-1266 Phi TC | 0.15 Vrms | 3.19 mA | 0.48 mW |
| Heddphone | 0.16 Vrms | 3.81 mA | 0.61 mW |
| Susvara | 0.31 Vrms | 5.17 mA | 1.6 mW |
| 100 dB SPL | Voltage Needed | Current Needed | Power Needed |
| Stelia | 0.09 Vrms | 2.57 mA | 0.23 mW |
| Utopia | 0.18 Vrms | 2.25 mA | 0.41 mW |
| LCD-4 | 0.63 Vrms | 3.15 mA | 1.98 mW |
| Aeon Flow Open | 0.2 Vrms | 15.38 mA | 3.08 mW |
| AB-1266 Phi TC | 0.86 Vrms | 18.3 mA | 15.74 mW |
| Heddphone | 0.92 Vrms | 21.9 mA | 20.15 mW |
| Susvara | 1.73 Vrms | 28.83 mA | 49.88 mW |
| 110 dB SPL | Voltage Needed | Current Needed | Power Needed |
| Stelia | 0.3 Vrms | 8.57 mA | 2.57 mW |
| Utopia | 0.56 Vrms | 7 mA | 3.92 mW |
| LCD-4 | 2 Vrms | 10 mA | 20 mW |
| Aeon Flow Open | 0.64 Vrms | 49.23 mA | 31.51 mW |
| AB-1266 Phi TC | 2.73 Vrms | 58.09 mA | 158.57 mW |
| Heddphone | 2.9 Vrms | 69.05 mA | 200.24 mW |
| Susvara | 5.49 Vrms | 91.5 mA | 502.34 mW |
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What a bad run. Try to top these…
$13 Billion each, and very late
Planned to be the “future” – required $800K ammo per shot. Dead end.
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Wasn’t that super-fancy battle ship supposed to have cheaper ammo?
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Yes if you build military equipment, it costs money I do understand your point if we are discussing those programs. But not to this conversation, pricing on headphone, these das is is more about what the market will bear for a given markup over material costs.
The question I asked simple is dollar equation that causing issues if so hunt for a better price, You can buy the headset for much less.
Also their number of Defense contract programs that were not overrun
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Operators love the Ghostrider.
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I know a man who flew A-10s for most of his military career. He credits his life to that plane many times over.
First introduced in 1977 and still relevant!
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Note: for reasons of consistency when I mention price it’s always the price of the item at launch, not necessarily current
Question is if you nock $1.5-2K off the price of Susvara, you are now in Utopia price territory along with LCD-4, and close to a ZMF Vertie LTD. Do you change your mind? You see Openbox close into this price range.
Well! Considering that I did actually at one time purchase the Susvara, there are some to pass judgement on my priorities so if they’re right (they’re wrong) in their opinion, there may not be much of a mind left to change… or left at all, according to my ex-wife.
I would say that a $3,000+ price tag qualifies any headphone as being part of the esoteric category. On that basis I know very well that my $4k Utopia won’t ever provide me with $3,000 worth of improved performance over the Elear and I have no reason to believe I would get $2k’s worth of performance boost “upgrading” from Utopia to Susvara. But that doesn’t mean I think any less of the Susvara, it’s a spectacular item.
In the esoteric world of ultra-high-end headphones anybody can sell theirs for whatever amount they damn want (and the market would sustain) because past $3k cost of manufacturing is much less of a factor than donning the product yourself is. In fact what I firmly believe is that Susvara costs less to make than Utopia, owing to it having access to prospective employees willing to work for $4 or $5 an hour which is considered a far above-average wage, enough to motivate employee to perform their best. Don’t go thinking I dislike the Susvara, in fact its exquisite look of confident luxury exudes attention to detail both visual and technical that bring me hours of aesthetic gratification. There is also that… je ne sais quoi that bespeaks of there having around at least one amp that would do it full justice.
My only knock opening the box that is a knock to a premium headphone experience was the cables. I Hifiman should use the same cable vendor as RAD-0
Hifiman has stricken me as being full of surprises when it comes to cables. One thing I find very strange with them is a lack of consistency that appears to be due to undependable suppliers in China more than poor stock managing. I have seen $1500 HFM cans come with HE400 type cables while “lesser” (but better known) models such as Sundara being bundled with just the kind of cable you’d expect from $1500 cans… go figure. Not all Sundara owners are so lucky though, I got the cable inside a rubbery tube version.
Personally, I find it to be a great headphone. You do need amp that can do do high voltage swing and also higher current output support.
Swing, so precious. My HE6es sounds absolutely gorgeous when driven by a 1977 vintage Pioneer SX-1250 that I finished restoring last month, replaced almost every damn part of it You can get more output voltage swing than you can from that receiver but only from large powerful electronics. Susvara doesn’t fare that good with it though, sounds a bit rough around the edges. Sounds pretty good if I knock preamp gain into it, but I don’t want to resort to DSP on the Susvara just yet, and there is not much of a curve to tame anyway.
I have been listening to them up against the following amps, ZMF Pendant and Headamp GS-X Mini with Qutest and Bifrost with Qobuz. Personally they are one of the best headphones in my stable.
The weight and comfort are very good especially up against LCD-4.
Oh I wouldn’t hesitate to call them that as well, they just need a compatible mate
my currnet prefred playback amp
The stable
** Audeze LCD-4*
** Focal Stelia*
** Hifiman HE-1000SE*
** Hifiman Susvara*
** Rosson Rad-0*
** Sennheiser HD-650*
** ZMF Vertie*
Nice rack! We have the Stellia and the Susvara in common. How do you find the Stellia? I would describe it as “velvety with presence” myself. It is well suited to the Naim DAC V1 since that particular DAC was developed for Focal. For looks they are only second to the Susvara, IMHO. I tried the LCD-4 out but had comfort issues with it that would ruin it for me. It is heavy, or at least it feels heavy. Right now I’m doing a little slumming with my DSP’d Elears. Sounds nothing like the original Elear, much closer to the Clear but the instruments are easier to tell apart. The Elear is the most DSP-friendly cans I own
But you need an AMP that had larger volatage swing and can also have to higher current output
This, a good quality restored vintage receiver can provide. What it can’t provide is better control over current and voltage
Looking power needs the Stelia and Utopia were designed to run on iPhone Dongle or iPad.
No wonder the DAC V1 has no trouble dealing with them. 
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My latest review subject definitely qualifies.
The Audiofly AF1120 MK2 is an in-ear monitor sporting six balanced armature drivers per housing, and retails for AUD 849.99. It has a dark, L-shaped tuning. While competitive in some respects, I cannot recommend it given the compromised nature of its vocal delivery.
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I owned these when they first appeared in their Mk 1 guise. I quite liked them but for the build quality and on the second day of owning them noticed a crack in the iem casing. They had been babied and not dropped or mistreated in any way. I was annoyed to say the least and returned them. This was 2 years ago.
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Stellia, yes it very good headphones, very good treble reproduction ( can get bright in very dynamic songs), great bass response, one thing on the more powerful amp I have watch volumes since very dynamic nature of songs can peak quickly very high volumes. Elex was like this.
This track with sudden explosion of the dynamic section can you reaching dial back volume on Stellia, On this track, I prefer the RAD-0 over the Stellia on this track since reproducing full range of frequencies a little better.
Elegia
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Yeah explosive dynamics are pretty much a given with the Focals. They all have it but it’s most apparent on the Elear due to contrast with the unusually deep sub-bass and the tamed timid mids this phone is known for. With symphony or certain styles of jazz you have very quiet passages then BOOWAAAM! here’s the cavalry all of a sudden. Had the Elear for about 2 yars when I got the Clear and was astonished that two phones that are basically the same could sound so different. A little research yielded results that are indicative that, indeed, the Elear and the Clear basically use many similar or identical parts, the main difference in FR being the result of tuning.
To those who think that the Clear must be better because it costs $500 more I say don’t forget the Clear’s cable bundle. Take that into account and the price is pretty much the same. The Clear has the sonic boom as well, it’s just that higher tuned mids dampens the perceived response and removes a great part of the surprise effect… which returns with the Stellia and the Utopia, proof that esoteric materials like beryllium, while contributing to heighten detail, are a bit too revealing and could use a little damping.
That tuning could have such a dramatic effect is what drawn me into DSP. But that belongs in a different thread (software).
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