I don’t know if I can name any amplifier that offers similar value in its domain, that’s also at a similar level of performance, as the Yggdrasil is/does for DACs.
The stuff that’s similar in terms of value proposition to Yggdrasil is really in a somewhat lower performance category, so may not let Yggdrasil shine, and the stuff that’s really worthy of what Yggdrasil can deliver isn’t as good a value proposition.
I am honestly more interested in the pricing ball park than the specific models. I assume that amp isn’t an a90. 
What you did imply that interests me is that the yggdrasil isn’t worth it on j-random systems. What I am interested in is at what point does it make sense to go above the bifrost in terms of the rest of the system. Would a burson soloist benefit from the gungnir? But, I assume, not a yggdrasil.
In theory, any benefit from upgrading to a better source should flow down to the rest of the chain. At what point is a very personal answer. Each person has to answer that one their own. To someone who only wants to spend $100 on a total system, there is no point in upgrading a dac/amp if your headphones are gonna be <$100. If your total budget is $1000, it might not make sense to even get a bifrost if it takes up 70% of your budget.
Based on my experience, the best answers to questions like these are experienced first hand. What I value will be different from you and the next person. There are so many audio companies out there, it’s impossible to find the most efficient and most in tune with one’s preferences system just by reading reviews or going on forums.
Price has a very poor, and highly unreliable, correlation to performance. Good “value” tends to be found rather lower down the price ladder. Yggdrasil is one of those very rare components that is relatively expensive in general terms, but still excellent value for what it delivers in terms of enjoyability.
It’ll show dividends with any, competent, ideally balanced, amplifier (Yggdrasil is notably better via its balanced outputs, especially with A1 units) vs. lesser DACs. Where the crossover point in terms of balance between where you’re getting the most bang for you buck from the amplifier or from the DAC is going to be very personal.
And it’s that balance that is important.
Going way back in time …
I ran a Bifrost 4490 into a Ragnarok before upgrading to Yggdrasil. And then I kept the Yggdrasil until I blew threw the $10K level in amplification.
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Regarding Burson and Gungnir …
I think Gungnir is in a bit of a no-man’s land at the moment. Bifrost 2 is SO good that I wouldn’t bother with a Gungnir (as good as it is, it just doesn’t make sense from a value perspective to me anymore … it did in the days of Bifrost MB, but not today) … I’d do Bifrost 2 until Yggdrasil, or I’d do something else entirely.
Can’t advise you on Burson; I didn’t particularly care for the units I’ve heard, and I haven’t heard the latest in a suitable system to make other comments.
When I hit Bifrost 2 + RebelAmp + Clear, I concluded this was at the knee in the cost-benefit curve. I’m stubborn about being able to reliably hear and care about the improvements of upgrades, and cannot see how spending another dime would result in additional conventional headphone “enjoyment.” So many music sources were butchered in production. So many are compressed today. Nothing can fix that.
Exploration is totally different from functional performance, and I do it all the time. However, this setup put a hold on consideration of ZMF’s products. My energy shifted to speakers because they can do things with stage and presence that headphones can never do. While RAAL-requisite and the like may get past some headphone limitations, they still can’t do what a speaker can do.
Each type of technology has a distinct perceptual delivery and its own price-performance curve. You can’t expect more than the performance envelope can deliver. Spend more for another flavor if you like, but it’s not “better” really.
Sure, but thus far between $109 and $1500 for a stack, I haven’t heard much that makes me want to go above the $109 for sources. (There are a few exceptions, the micro signature for one and the dx300 for another. Both presented practical challenges that eliminated them for non sonic reasons at the time).
Most of what I have heard is in linear/thx/measurements realm. The point of asking someone with far greater experience is to get an idea of where things changed for them. I very much realize it may be different for me. If I relied only on my experiences so far, I would make generalizations that are very different than what I hear on most forums. And maybe they are right for me. Or maybe I don’t have the experience yet to know (my money is on that).
What @torq just responded with is exactly what I wanted to know. If I want to simply buy a forever dac and not think about it, yggdrasil should be on the table. I am a big fan of one and done when feasible.
In reality, I don’t yet even know if I care about what better dacs provide. If I determine that I do like it, then jumping straight to yggdrasil is the kind of move I would do. On the other hand, I might determine going beyond bifrost is silly. Having owned some measurement dacs in that price range and not caring for them, I honestly don’t know if I would love the bifrost or go “meh”. Again.
Not owning the Bitfrost 2 or the RebelAmp, I’m in no position to disagree with this assessment (and you sound more knowledgeable than I am about particular units). But I’ll only say that this type of line-drawing happens across the cost spectrum. I had a Topping D90/A90 stack and thought it was all I’d ever need, and then I gave a more expensive tube amp a try, and declared my search over. Ultimately, I bumped up to a Chord Hugo2 TT and concluded I was satisfied. And then bought the M Scaler and REALLY said my quest was at an end.
I have no interest (or funds) to go higher up the ladder. Until that changes.
I only note that everyone’s idea is different of what is good enough and what above that is not cost-beneficial. So I’d take the quotes off “better” and appreciate that standing firm at what you’ve bought and declaring “game over” is as porous a concept as characterizing as spurious the position of those that spend a fortune on marginal improvement and concluding they are wasting their time and money.
Yes, no disagreement. I just stopped shopping for headphones and put my money elsewhere…follow your own journey…
Just to answer this question straight-up…
I came from an RME to a Holo Spring (not an yggy but similar tier), and based on my experience so far w/ the Soloist, it most certainly benefits from it. It was night and day difference. But the thing is, once you get accustomed to that tier of DACs, you don’t really hear it as night and day until you regress back in gear–that is, at least, my experience with what I’ve heard so far.
I thought a Yggy would be my one and done end game dac… that wasn’t the case. I find most of the Schiit offering now just meh at best, they are good but there much better out there (even for the same price if you can find it). I will say though I don’t care one nut about measurements in dacs and amps, nor solid state personally. So it might be the case that between a $100 dollar measurement/SS stack vs a $1500 measurement/SS stack will make no difference.
I have gone full into the tube side (for all gear components) and I prefer it that way.
Whats your go to dac now that you’ve moved on from the Yggy?
I currently am using a ECP Walnut DAC X.1 (Think on par if not better than Yggy) and a Sonic Frontier SFD 2 MKII (Tube dac. Prefer this way over yggy and TT2/Mscaler). I have another tube r2r dac that I have ordered that should be coming in as well to probably replace the SFD 2 MKII.
That’s a personal call, not an absolute.
For me, the very best WM8741-based converter (something for which I have an enormous amount of affection and appreciation for) I’ve heard is a Linn unit that’s 20x the price of the ECP … and I wouldn’t put it ahead of Yggdrasil.
Assuming you mean the Sonic Frontiers unit … it’s a lovely piece.
I wouldn’t, personally, put it ahead of Yggdrasil either, but I can see why some might … at least with Redbook content.
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Horses for courses … there are no absolutes here … unless we’re talking objective measurements … and those don’t correlate well to what individuals enjoy listening to (which is, after all, the POINT).
At one point I had a ygg and thought that would be my endgame DAC. However, there was always something in the back of my mind telling me that this can’t be the end of the road and I’m glad I decided to make the jump away from it.
Sure, the Ygg is a good value dac if you’re able to snag one at ~850 for A1 and ~1400 for A2. However, not everything in audio is about value and I can confidently say that there are better DACs out there. I admit that I feel prey to all those who praised the Ygg and said that even 5 digit DACs aren’t much better than it. There’s even a 66 page thread on it just comparing Ygg to other DACs! But as I encourage my other friends in this hobby, there are so many other audio companies out there that even though Ygg is so easily accessible, they should try other stuff just to gain experience. Just because Ygg bests other brands for someone, that might not be the case for you.
Sure, but I never meant it as an absolute rather my opinion. But your preference toward Yggy as a value sale is also a personal opinion. I just think people need to know that the Yggy isn’t the end all be all in terms of price to performance and that there are other options, cheaper than the Yggy that many would prefer or put above the Yggy (myself included, and I have owned 2 yggys). Sure it’s okay value at MSRP, and good value at the used market prices
I’m just sensitive to the way things get worded per other sites.
It’s not always clear … even if it should always be assumed the any position, on anything, is always personal.
Probably mine.
Lots has changed in the week or so shy of THREE YEARS since I last updated that.
Which is about how long its been since I still owned an Yggdrasil.
(And it’s all down to personal factors anyway … anyone buying high-dollar gear without either hearing it/comparing it directly for themselves first and/or having a solid return policy on their side only has themselves to blame if they don’t like the outcome).
Yep, there has been a lot of different things that have come out after and also things that used to be SOTA have dropped in price making it more attainable and possibly a competitor to Ygg. I know Schiit is a great recommendation to beginners but personally I’d rather see people venture out and try different things for themselves rather than follow the crowd. There are so many variables to an audio chain that saying this is the best DAC for the money regardless of your preferences seems a bit much.
Are you documenting your speaker exploration anywhere? I’d certainly be interested in following along.
As others have said, you won’t know until you’ve tried it. You’ll either go “meh” or you’ll like it. If you like it, you’ll either keep it for a while or you’ll be curious about whether you can get something even better, and you’ll cycle through more DACs.
I had a Bifrost 2 and enjoyed listening to music on all my amps, all the way up to the Nautilus. The one exception was the Jot 2, and I think that was because the combination of the slightly warm Bifrost 2, slightly warm Jot 2 and slightly warm ZMF headphones was a little too much for me. I haven’t heard other people complain about this, so I’ve put it down as a personal preference.
I was curious about a next level DAC, and I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow an Yggy. I enjoyed listening to music a little more than before on all my amps, including the Jot 2, possible because the Yggy isn’t quite as warm as the BF2. Again, that’s down to my personal preferences.
Having heard this borrowed Yggy and none of it’s competitors, and also being a bit sick of cycling through equipment, I decided to buy an Yggy because I already knew I liked it. It’s possible I’d like a TT2 or Spring or May even more, but I’m happy right now. And if for some reason my Yggy had a catastrophic failure, I know I’d be happy with my BF2 (which I kept as a backup) because I’ve tried switching back. In fact if I had to scale back completely, I know I’d be happy with a BF2 and Burson Soloist 3XP. And if others hate that combination, it won’t hurt my feelings.
So as much as I joke about you returning things, I think you’re doing absolutely the right thing of trying things out because that’s the only way you’ll know for sure. Asking for opinions in a subjective forum is going to get you a bunch of “I like it” and “I don’t like it” responses.