Not really, I’m just getting started after a long hiatus. Plus, speakers can be 51% hardware and 49% room. My wife and I can easily tell the differences between DACs when piped through speakers.
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Amen brother. I went through a long journey myself when seeking out a great 2-channel system. It was a wild ride - far different than headphones - but well worth it.
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This or the ares ii and burson are my leading top things to try so far.
Next is some full schiit stack.
What I have to decide is which is the better stack option for generic “headphones” for me. That’s why I ordered an ananda. If it can handle the ananda and my hp-2, I am probably good to go.
I agree. I actually ask for consensus. What gives me pause (usually) is when there is no consensus about products. The bifrost and the soloist (and ares ii) are among the most liked products in consistent ways. Across enough disparate reviews that I don’t think it can be purely a hype train. In the case of the burson, especially now that I have heard the playmate 2, I can see what people are talking about.
Anyway, I am excited to keep going. I wouldn’t be surprised if I send the playmate 2 and jot back, but keep the ananda. ;p
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Lots has changed in the week or so shy of THREE YEARS since I last updated that.
Have I missed something earlier in the thread, or are details forthcoming? Is there life after Yggdrasil after all?
I just bought the D30 pro, that unit is kind of junky. Doesn’t sound bad, but not sure what’s going after a few hours of being turned 4-5 usually the dac starts making this static noise.
So I just returned it. Not sure if it’s a single unit issue or maybe an issue with all of them.
I want a AK4499 dac and they’re all Chinese, which sounds the best idk. Any ideas?
- Gustard A22
- SMSL M400
- Topping D90
I saw on hifi go only a few units have it… mostly will be used for stereo listening and also headphones on occasion. Guessing Gustard…
Should I try for 4497 with dual chips?
Gustard A20?
Thoughts with measurements out the door
Not sure which thread you’re referring to; this one or the “Life After Yggdrasil” one.
I stopped posting on other audio forums, other than an occasional post on Head-Fi and CA/AS, a little shy of three years ago. I stopped updating “Life After Yggdrasil” a few months before that. I stopped doing full reviews on the first of this year*.
As for “details” … these are not sudden changes. They’ve occurred over the last three years, both in terms of the general personal audio landscape (for which any interested party will have observed directly) and in my systems and listening habits (which I’ve talked as they’ve happened since I started posting here).
Patently.
I sold my last Yggdrasil in May of 2019, which I had kept around to maintain a consistent reference to facilitate comparisons to earlier reviews. I had sold the one I had in my actual listening (as opposed to review) rig prior to that and had switched to using a Chord DAVE with an M-Scaler.
And in the last few months I’ve sold off that majority of my gear and am focusing on speaker listening and a single headphone rig (so still have more stuff to sell off). Details/chronology about that would be found in this thread.
Now back to the topic at hand …
*I don’t really have any intent to do anymore “full” reviews. There are a few things coming that I might make an exception for, otherwise at most it’ll be high-level stream-of-conciousness impressions. And even then, probably only for stuff that a) I’ve decided to buy for my own system and b) I was able to get close enough to release that it was worth doing in the first place.
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Is there a reason you’re specifically looking at these DAC chips only?
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Well my first dac is the JNOG and I like the 4493 in it. So far I’ve tried ESS chips and I don’t like it. The burr brown in the ifi I had was nice in the portable nano, I’m borrowing the Neo and that’s pretty decent too.
CL in the D30 wasn’t bad.
I don’t think there are many dac chip options left. I guess I am seeking a more relaxed listening experience.
I basically feel like the bb chips are very relaxed. The Neo is doing better, but AKM seems to have more detail or clarity to my ears
Edit: also taking into consideration that implementation is probably is more crucial I wonder who is doing it best. I know from you guys at the beginning of my journey kind of gave the notion that these Chinese dacs are kind of lifeless in sound and I definitely want to avoid that. Not sure if that’s an implementation factor or strictly trying to achieve these crazy measurements
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I am going to chime in on one thing: Among my favorite amp/dacs, one was Burr Brown, one was ESS, one was Cirrus. An AKM hasn’t really made it to “favorites” yet, but, that was likely luck of the draw at the time. All were very different devices.
I just assume implementation matters more than the source at this point.
Now, on to the people with more experience to respond. 
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Yea man, honestly I don’t know if it’s my speakers or my chain. But I didn’t like how the ESS sounds with speakers. It could be bad synergy. I know or believe that ESS is analytical and that probably means detailed.
I’m just finding the best balance with AKM.
It’s hard to get a response from anyone, as if you’ve never heard all three or even one it’s hard to say.
This may definitely come to be a waste of time but I tried to shoot my shot see if anything comes from it.
Also, from what I’ve seen on reviews people say that the 97 and 99 are far better sounding than the 93 and other lower ones. That’s their flagship.
I chose the D30 pro because people say that it doesn’t have grunt on the bottom end and honestly I can’t see that or hear, maybe just my level of experience or it’s the 8 inch woofers on my speakers just hammering it home.
Who says what now? (not what I remember reading)
So, the 4497’s and 4493’s were all paired with various THX amps (I think). They seem to get prickly on resolving headphones. And I think that was the problem for me. The D90 did not show the problem I heard on others, but it is also a 4499. (And the a90 was clearly better than the thx options I heard for my taste) I think the jot with 4490 is my first 4490 of any type. But I only have it back to back with a 9038 in the playmate 2 currently.
But I liked the ifi micro signature, xduoo ta-30 hybrid and dx300 dap better. Those are the the 3 winners. All with various planars I had over a multi-month period of time.
The signature is rapidly moving toward “just re-buy it and be done with this for now” status. Mid-fi feels like a bit of a no-man’s hell hole that can’t be escaped without loads of money. 
Also, I am headphones/iems only. What are these speakers you speak of?
All, I am saying is drawing a box around what you want doesn’t seem to help. Ask for the criteria you want instead. And people can respond with where they found that.
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To my ears, the biggest difference between my Delta Sigma DACs is how they handle high frequency noise. Burr-Brown is fuller in the low end than the others too. I’ve identified (easily, zero doubt) my various Delta Sigma DACs by their high frequency noise. Some whine constantly with a tonal “weeeeeee,” others hiss like air, and others merely generate occasional piercing artifacts. I sold or upgraded several over the years to get away from really bad ones.
I’m not an electrical engineer, but this characteristic would logically follow from an imperfect noise filtering process. This parallels a terrible old video game that shipped with a broken object location algorithm – in-game puzzles involved knocking things down because they’d otherwise drift around on other objects. It’s as if DS DACs can never quite get the top end right, and thereby smooth excessively or allow it to whine.
In dramatic contrast, the Bifrost 2 never ever whines or pierces for me. Instead, it sounds as if it retains all source noise in frequency buckets that correspond to original frequencies of the noise. Each octave on the Bifrost 2 has a bit of roughness from low to high. My perception of this disappears with regular use (e.g., likely auditory masking and perhaps why some believe Schiit Multibit requires warming up).
With the right lab resources all of this speculation might be tested. But I don’t have a lab so take it for what it’s worth.
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I got that from Sandu from Soundnews or whatever it is, he said the bottom end isn’t visceral if I can coin his terms. Not an issue.
Yea, I am assuming the variation can’t be that great. However, using a passive preamp to volume control my power amp with the JNOG to me seems a bit out of place. I may do it if I really can’t pick. But I would prefer something with a remote. Someone mentioned the Sabaj headphone amp which is like a 100 would work great as pre with remote.
Just kind of tough, it’s tempting when you read all the highlights of the Gustard A22 with dual chips, dual mono design, plus class A amplification which seems like something more suitable with power amp.
The speakers are the Elac Adante towers, when they dropped they were 2500 each so vs my current setup of basically a 1000 dollar Elac unifi 2.0’s they should be definitely audibly better and I’m trying to keep the chain strong. I was going to purchase a 2000+ power amp but I’m really undecided on that, found a great deal on a older flagship denon amp, the POA-8000 series it’s a dual mono THX amp and has some decent specs and it was cheaper than the D30 pro. Plus it’s great as I can use it for my home theater as well and have a full 11 ch as my Marantz 7013 on amp 9 channels but can process 11. So it balanced out really to work as a convenient speaker switch for whatever I may be listening it.
Even though it has only rca inputs my next amp will have balanced input and will be a higher tier amp, so I mean matching equipment sounds right? I just bought the d30p to hold me over on blowing more money and I am kind of skeptical on getting a replacement and running into the same issue.
I know the average person doesn’t listen to music for 4 5 or even 8 hours but I’m doing that daily between speakers and headphones at night when I can’t be loud.
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Oh I don’t doubt it, you have definitely far more experience than me. I mean things just sound different when coming out of a speaker vs headphones.
The Gustard X26 pro seems to be an ESS dac that doesn’t have all those implications of common ESS analytical sound and also was thinking of the Aune S8 pro I believe it is.
I’m not to deep into this yet to really have a grasp, but I feel like the burr brown lower chips are to the far left and ESS on the right and AKM to me seems to have a combination of both without being overwhelming.
I may be totally off with this in actuality of this spectrum but that’s what I feel personally. I honestly don’t have anything against Schitt and you guys have said many times the bifrost is good. I will definitely put that into the consideration list. But the multibit isn’t AKM right? It’s their own proprietary dac?
Just run into the same conclusion if I buy it and I don’t like it I really dislike purchasing and returning something just cause it’s not for me.
I don’t understand this. Doesn’t exactly this let you get any sound you want? Wouldn’t putting the jnog as the dac for schiit saga or freya (or similar) be an ideal solution? Plus, option of tubey sound you can bypass. Switch out the jnog later for whatever?
Is the desire to simply to have a single box with a remote?
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In terms of handing treble, yes. I don’t hear many piercing treble notes from Burr Brown while my (older) ESS is very prone to whining. Beyond brightness, Burr Brown has more fullness in the mid/low ranges too. Some describe this as warm but I don’t think that’s the best summary. It comes a lot closer to delivering room/air atmospherics than the other two. By this I mean the natural air pressure changes arising from making music, be it singing or moving around when playing an instrument. These are non-tonal and often subtle air vibrations (or “noise”), but part of real music (live music) and they should be there.
The Bifrost 2 and other Schiit multibit uses different technology and other chips. Per my comments above and in the Bifrost 2 thread, BF2 is not perfect. However, it does a great job preserving mid range body, ambience/air, and depth/3D presence. I hear it as a grown-up and nuanced version of my flatter and simpler Burr Brown.
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Yes, the key is the ultimate performance and attributes of that chip. One would assume the flagship chip would have even a 5% better performance and also implemented in dual chip design. I assume better performance is to come and compliment better speakers.
It’s a tough one. I only bought the TA-10R because it had the same AKM dac and I really enjoy those two units the most.
As mentioned I currently have the Neo and I can use that it has all the functions I mentioned. There’s no dire need, however all AKM units are limited so time is somewhat ticking. It’s not mine and I am not planning on spending 700 for my own.
I can just get the passive preamp from Schitt or Bellari. But that’s beyond the point I stated above.
I’m not sure if you recall my beginning days on merely headphones and set up. I’m always thinking into the future. I only bought the d30 pro because I was going to purchase the pre90 and thought this is a cheaper unit and provides what I need. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bought that either.
It was just like okay it has a dac and pre amp function and a dac, it covers both factors and unfortunately that didn’t work out. Plus saw it as an experience to try a dac I’ve never heard before.
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Hi. I am looking for best budget entry-level amp for my Sundaras. I wonder if anybody had a chance to compare between Asgard3, Zen CAN and Magni3+. Sometimes CAN goes on sale $150 between price range of Magni and AS, but looks like it’s back to $190. I live in the US. I wonder if among all 3, AS3 is best match for my Sundaras and whether its worth it to get Modius DAC (AK4493) or Topping E30 instead of Modi3+ if paired with AS3.
Currently I enjoy using them with hip-dac using 4.4mm balanced cable (I have SE adapter).
Do the higher priced options make Sundara sound more open than Magni3+?
The type of amp/DAC I am looking for is neutral, rich in detail but slightly to warm side (external):
My price range is: $100-200$ for Amp, $100-200 DAC
I like to listen to: rock, dance, modern pop, mostly rock
I will be using them for home.
Edit: Revised to make some clarifications.
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I’d go with the Schiit Magnius and Modius stack. You’re still in the “entry level” price range - even at $400 for the stack - so you’ll probably hear a slight difference over what you have now, but it won’t be major; it’ll give you plenty of power for the Sundara, though.
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I think the only problem with the Magnius is the sound (imo) is harsh and flat. Not something I would want to pair with Sundara.
I’d lean toward the Zen Can or Asgard 3, given @domini097 stated he wanted a slightly warmer sound.
It depends on the amp. Most entry level Schiit amps aren’t known for wide and open staging, so it’s not terribly difficult to get better performance in that area.
You have the Modi 3+, and that’s a decent unit until you get into far more expensive DACs. I would hang on to that and focus on an amp that synergizes well. Asgard 3, Drop MCTH, Liquid Carbon, etc.
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