General purchase advice: Ask your questions/for advice here!

[domini097]

@PastorOfMuppets

I’m curious about these people that have sundaras and a zen can and aren’t happy. Are they truly unhappy or are they trying to convince themselves a magni heresy or something like is better because of a number. The zen can has its limits pushed with the hd6xx, but it should be fine with the sundara and it sounds pretty good to my ears.

They largely look at measurements and ignore how it sounds. Most people on ASR seem to be only “measurement objectivists”. The measurements are flawed. They are not standardized for all reviews, and Amir seems to cherry-pick measurements. Also most people cannot interpret these measurements and what they mean and can only look at evaluation statement and for many its automatically “if it measures bad, its bad, it if it measures good, its good”.

As for subjective reviewers on other forums, I have not seen anybody complain about pairing Sundara with Zen CAN. For price and footprint, $150 it seemed clear winner to me that could be paired with zen dac or Magni3+ using SE (its fully balanced amp) until they raised it to $190 and its no longer price competitive against Asgard3 which only downside is backorder waiting time but it comes with 5 year warranty and has a lot more power, better and bigger volume knob. Obviously due to its larger footprint size, it almost makes you want to spend extra on Modius instead of Modi3+ just to match stack, even though as ProFalkin pointed out there is probably no reason to shop for Modius instead of modi3+. Before 3+ release, it probably made sense just for Unisom USB alone even if still going with SE. Some say Modius sound better than modi3+ but I am skeptical of it and its probably sounds at most 10% better. In that case, I think it would probably still best to stick with purchasing modi3+ and go with third party slightly longer high quality 1ft Mogami RCA cables instead of StraightWire 6" ones.

[PastorOfMuppets]

Stay on the good and noble path.

[domini097]

I take it you mean ASR is the ‘Dark Side’ and Amir is Darth Vader

[mfadio]

I think you mean to say JarJar.

[genio]

@domini097

so if you can splurge little more for them to get better build quality and durability I would go for these instead.

Thanks for the reply, can you give some examples of those you say and how much should i expand my budget?

[genio]

@generic

[I’d personally buy the HD-58x of @genio’s list.]

thanks for the reply, can you tell me why is that?

[domini097]

What I think is Meze which were previously suggested have more premium material but personally I never owned them. But cant really go wrong with akg 371 for what they are worth.

[hottyson]

@domini097

Hi. I am looking for best budget entry-level amp for my Sundaras. I wonder if anybody had a chance to compare between Asgard3, Zen CAN and Magni3+. Sometimes CAN goes on sale $150 between price range of Magni and AS, but looks like it’s back to $190. I live in the US. I wonder if among all 3, AS3 is best match for my Sundaras and whether its worth it to get Modius DAC (AK4493) or Topping E30 instead of Modi3+ if paired with AS3.

Currently I enjoy using them with hip-dac using 4.4mm balanced cable (I have SE adapter).

Do the higher priced options make Sundara sound more open than Magni3+?

The type of amp/DAC I am looking for is neutral, rich in detail but slightly to warm side (external):
My price range is: $100-200$ for Amp, $100-200 DAC
I like to listen to: rock, dance, modern pop, mostly rock
I will be using them for home.

I don’t usually recommend the Schiit Magni 3+ $100 nor the Schiit Asgard 3 ($200) because they usually don’t perform to the level that I know my headphones can reach. The next level up, the Jotunheim 2 ($400) is where I usually draw the line, as it can bring many headphones to a satisfying level that cheaper amps cannot.

However, you are talking about pairing with the Hifiman Sundara headphones. The Sundara will sound very good driven by most any amp and even just headphone output of some source devices. You may be very happy with a cheap amp or maybe even no amp. The Sundara sound somewhat treble focused driven by the Schiit Magni 3+ compared to the Asgard 3 yet still very pleasant. The Asgard 3 tames those highs. You might be less likely to suffer fatigue if you are sensitive to too much treble by going with the warm fuller sounding Asgard 3 over the Magni 3+.

For me the big honking walwart of the Schiit Magni 3+ is enough cause for me to jump up to neat and tidy Asgard 3 which has the power supply built in. Well worth the extra $100 just for that alone.

Ultimately, if you must purchase between these two, get the Asgard 3. However, I would save up money for a better amp because I also have a variety of different headphones to drive.

As for the DAC, I hooked my amps up to a Schiit Modi 3 for you and listened to my music which included dance, modern pop, and mostly rock. Since you are on a small budget, why not just save your money by keeping your Schiit Modi 3 DAC. I don’t think it will be worth your money to side-grade from your Modi 3 unless you spend much more money.

[hottyson]

domini097, I don’t know if I misread these posts, Do you already have the Schiit Modi 3? If not, perhaps you just get the internal DAC card on the Asgard 3 if you go that route.

[domini097]

No I dont have any external dac yet. Since I am looking for more inputs than usb alone, I would lean toward getting modi 3+ with 1ft rca cable. This way I would be able to hook up work macbook using usb cable and my personal older mac mini 2014 using mini toslink cable.
From what I learned from Schiit amps asgard 3 is most enjoable amp in budget category, beating hands down magnius and next upgrade option is substantially more expensive jotunheim 2.

Before AS3 came to my attention, I was also really interested in Zen CAN and almost pulled trigger until its price was raised from $150 to $190

[hottyson]

Got it. The optical SPDIF works well on the Modi 3+. Schiit Modi 3+ should do all that you are asking for.

[hottyson]

Here are some inexpensive 1 foot RCA interconnects that were recommended by Zeos. Amazon.com: Seismic Audio - SAPRCA1-2 Pack of Premium 1 Foot Dual RCA Male to Dual RCA Male Audio Patch Cables - Red and Red - 2-RCA to 2-RCA Audio Cord: Industrial & Scientific
They make good connections and are short.
.
Works out to $10 a piece. So, good for the budget minded.

[domini097]

I found these that would serve me well as well:

1 Foot – High-Definition Audio Interconnect Cable Pair CUSTOM MADE By WORLDS BEST CABLES – using Mogami 2964 wire and Amphenol ACPL Black Chrome Body, Gold Plated RCA Connectors Amazon.com: 1 Foot – High-Definition Audio Interconnect Cable Pair CUSTOM MADE By WORLDS BEST CABLES – using Mogami 2964 wire and Amphenol ACPL Black Chrome Body, Gold Plated RCA Connectors: Home Audio & Theater

[hottyson]

The top three RCA pairs are WBC 1-foot cables.
The skinny pair in the middle is Schiit PYST cables.
The two pairs on the bottom are the Seismic Audio.

I am glad you are spending just a little more for the WBC. They are VERY good quality!

[generic]

@genio

why is that?

Headphone choice is very personal. This follows from your personal tone profile preferences, sensitivity to certain frequencies, physical comfort for your specific head, weight, durability, amp/DAC requirements, etc. I don’t choose headphones based on music genre at all, as I listen to many different genres and a better set often sounds better with most everything.

I like Sennheiser’s 500 and 600 products better than other headphones in their respective price classes. This is my personal taste and choice, and your opinion may vary. However, both ranges are very popular and de-facto benchmarks for sound quality. “Does Brand X sound as good or better than Sennheiser? How so?” There is no substitute for testing and experience, and taste can change or grow over time too.

The HD-58X’s performance doesn’t change much with an amp or DAC, so it meets that criteria. It’s an open backed design so it won’t cancel noise, but noise canceling and wireless products have performance limitations, while all closed (sealed) headphones can be fatiguing over time. If you really, truly need isolation by all means get sealed headphones. Otherwise, open, non-noise canceling, wired headphones usually sound better, are more transparent, and cause less fatigue. I use Sony noise canceling headphones for air travel and when there are very loud and unavoidable noises (that brand is not on your list).

A $200 budget limits your choices, but some brands sell products with low and high prices. This includes Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Sony, AKG, etc. Sometimes a brand’s inexpensive products aren’t very good relative to their pro/elite products, and sometimes their pro/elite products aren’t very good in their price class. Sometimes one model is great while others are so-so. Sometimes a pricey product is great for music production/mastering but harsh and unpleasant for everyday use. It depends on the specific product, your needs, and the competitors.

While out of your budget, I also prefer the HD-600 (around $300) over the HD-6XX ($220). The HD-600 is neutral while the 6XX is warmer. Both greatly benefit from a DAC and amp, so the total system cost would be $300 to $400 or more, and not as portable as you may need.

[generic]

@hottyson

The top three

@hottyson

The skinny pair

@hottyson

The two pairs

This is a nice photo – as it shows the size differences in the RCA connectors. Long connectors can cause routing problems in some setups. I own the top and bottom styles, and their connectors are both bulky (WBC with long Amphenol ends; Seismic). Seismic’s connectors can also be loose feeling, and have a weird springy section.

I’m now interesting in getting some Pyst cables for tight spaces.

[perogie]

@generic

I’m now interesting in getting some Pyst cables for tight spaces.

If I remember correctly, Blue Jeans cables connectors were lower profile too compared to WBC so possibly another option. I don’t have them both in front of me to definitively confirm though. I also thought they sounded a bit better than WBC Gotham’s too. Referencing interconnects only.

[Nuance]

Their LC-1 is pictured on their website (see below). I love their interconnects, though the ends are bulky for my tastes.

[perogie]

@generic - Im incorrect. The BJC connectors are bigger than the the WBC. I do like the fit on the connectors better though.

Thanks, @Nuance for the pic, it reminded me to check!

[PaisleyUnderground]

@domini097 Before you buy your interconnects, please make sure that your new cables are flexible enough for a 1 foot length to work. When I upgraded from the super-flexible 6 inch Schiit Pyst cables, I thought I was being smart by ordering a pair of one foot cables to give myself some leeway, but my new cables were so stiff that I couldn’t use them.

2 feet worked fine for a stack, but then when I separated my amp and DAC onto separate shelves at a later date, those cables weren’t long enough either, even though the amp was on a shelf directly above the DAC. I ended up returning them to get 3 foot interconnects.

These were custom-made Furutech, but the guy who made them felt sorry for me and only charged me an incremental amount to make the new length. And he was also nice enough not to say “I told you so” because he’d originally warned me not to go for 1 foot.