The Source has a bunch of headphone setups, and even if some are currently out of range it’s still a good idea to hear different equipment. It’ll help give you an idea of where you want to head in the future.
Also, the Schiitr is a good place to visit as well. They’re also very friendly, and it’s usually Will that’s minding the store. Very cool guy.
I get your thought, to better understand the sound quality/characteristics. It is a great start, but the thing probably goes the same with Schitt, you need to bring your own headphones. This corona situation is making a mess.
I want to sometime in the near future endorse a place where people can try this equipment out. If you never try the experience you won’t get into it or understand the difference. Especially the basics which are fundamental to people just starting. Basically bringing light to the darkness.
Ah, I didn’t realize you didn’t have any experience with hifi equipment yet. I guess that makes my recommendation for the Bifrost 2 rather difficult to justify. Even if it were the right choice for you, you’d want to what you’re getting over less expensive DACs and if that’s even worth it for you.
What I will say though, experience is key. If you go in for a DAC/Amp auditioning session without any prior experience with any dedicated DAC/Amp setups, everything you hear will be new and it’ll be extremely difficult to make up your mind on what would be best for you. What you could do is get an inexpensive setup first, and after you’ve used that for a month or 2, that’s when you’ve got a good baseline reference for auditioning the pricier stuff.
The logical recommendation for an entry-level setup would be a basic Schiit stack, a Modi 3 and Magni 3+ or Heresy. Or a JDS Labs Atom stack, same price and offers a roughly equal level of performance. Both stacks are solid benchmarks of what $200 can get you in terms of sound quality, and a great starting point for anyone looking to get into the hobby.
This. ^^^^^
It’s honestly good enough to get you by for a long while with almost any headphone.
Figure out what headphone you like first. The Source has Audeze, Focal, Sennheiser, Dan Clark Audio, Grado, Meze, etc… which literally covers a majority of the popular Audiophile headphone makers, and is certainly enough of a selection to inform you on what your basic preferences are, such as: planar vs dynamic, bassy vs neutral vs treble focused or V shaped, large or narrow soundstage, etc.
I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts that if you went there and tried some products, then came back to us with an idea of which headphones you liked - even if you couldn’t describe why you liked it - that we could relate enough to that experience to help point you to a headphone & amp & dac that fit your preferences and budget.
Right now you have absolutely zero frame of reference. The best way to overcome that is experience.
Trying to help you find the best setup for your preferences is like trying to help a blind person navigate out of a round room with no doors, that we can’t see either, while speaking a language you don’t understand.
Any successful outcome would be due entirely to chance.
Explain your desires to Alan@thesourceav.com. See if he can arrange a “new to the hobby” demonstration for you.** I bet he would.
Good luck.
** I don’t know if they have such a thing, but it gets the point across to them.
Good advice being offered above. Ears on gear so you and all involved have a frame of reference will allow us to emerge from the darkness. That might mean bringing your Sundaras to the locations mentioned. If that’s not possible, there are return policies.
You may have reached a point of diminishing returns should you continue 2 hour per day research, depending on your objectives.
Yes, @HeadphoneNoob go listen to or buy something. Seems like your spinning your wheels a bit and you are stressed about details that really will make little difference for you right now. Trust the forum, this place is pretty good for giving advice and not leading people astray.
I would love for there to be a store like this near to me.
Me too. And by near, I mean at least in the same country 
Probably the most common ‘audiophile’ DAC chips today are the AKM 4490 and 4493 (ignoring the billions of DACs built into PCs, tablets, and phones). The AKM chips are in everything from $1,000+ RME products to the Schiit Modi and Modius and to umpteen Chinese brands.
Some ESS chips have been polarizing, particularly earlier generations. They aren’t bad, but may not be for you.
As others mentioned, the $699 Schiit Bifrost 2 is the hot DAC of the year. However, search for the many posts from @Torq and others on the relatively small impact of DACs versus headphones and amps. Your first priority should be to determine your preferred headphone tone, fit, feel, brand, and technology. As @Jsim and @ProfFalkin said, the $100 Modi 3 DAC (with an AKM 4490 chip) is a good place to start.
You’ve been getting some very good advice here. I particularly like the idea, I think it was @ProfFalkin’s to just get the entry level stack and learn for a while. It WILL serve you well for a long time.
But I wanted to give you come complimentary advice. First, I fully understand coming into the general audio hobby with little prior experience. Second, many of the things that people talk passionately about are rather subtle differences, and only become important when you have gained some time in the hobby. Third, companies market and throw all kinds of numbers and specific chips at you. Numbers don’t equate to musical enjoyment. Unless something is totally whacko.
What does matter is often not found in the numbers. All of the circuits and electronics that feed those chips are JUST as important as the chips themselves. A good chip fed by bad electronics is crap. A merely competent chip in a properly designed system may be stellar.
Another thing that matters is how you will use the equipment. I have a few DACs. I have a TEAC DAC with old Burr-Brown chips in my main stereo. It’s 10 years old, and plenty good enough for what it does. It has all the inputs and outputs I need in the main cabinet. That’s why it stays there.
When I want super-portable, I have Dragonfly (Black and Blue) DAC/AMPs. They’re tiny. I use them with my iPhone. Their output is limited, and while I thought they could properly drive a headphone amp, they’re really not well suited for that. (thank you @Torq). They are the best DACs I have for handling MQA. (Tidal masters). They happen to use ESS chips.
I mention these because it took me probably 3 f’kin YEARS to start to understand DACs. I did have some experience - in regular old fashioned hi-fi, not digital. I didn’t even know WHY I might want a DAC, let alone more than one. Perhaps I’m slow.
Now for the TWO DACs that I consider my main ones. The first I got is the iFi xDSD, which is a combination DAC and AMP. It uses Burr Browns. So what. I have a soft spot for Burr Brown because of the wonderful amplifier chips they made years ago. iFi happens to have an entry level DAC that competes with Schiit. I like both companies, not making a recommendation.
The reason I got the iFi xDSD is that I wanted a DAC and AMP in the same package, it’s small -ish, and it has a proper line-out mode so unlike the Dragonflies (Dragonflys?) it CAN drive a headphone amp. I use it both ways, as a combo unit and a DAC amp. It’s darn good. I was carting in all over the house, and on trips across the state, although it’s not as tiny as the Dragonfly.
Finally, I recently got a Schiit Bifrost 2. Lots of reasons. Yes, I’d heard a lot about its very good USB interface, and its fancy multibit chips. But the REAL reasons I got it were that it has exactly the right input and output for my main listening headphone station, AND it matches nice with my Schiit Lyr 3 amp. Aesthetics and practicality, not so much the chip. Yes, I can hear a difference between the Bifrost 2 and the xDSD in the same chain. But it is a very small difference.
So it’s use case, quality of build, battery life, ease of connection, overall sound. These are all more important than chip A or chip B. And it’s SOURCE, HEADPHONE, AMP, DAC, Connection in terms of importance to your sound. Source and Headphone are close to tied, and you can substitute Speaker for Headphone if you are listening to regular stereo.
In closing, I think it was @Resolve, who said that he could live with the Koss Porta-Pro headphones.(about $50). So could I. And probably a lot of the rest of us. For all that we appreciate the expensive stuff, I point to that because 95% of the general listening public, including people who buy Airpod Pros have no clue about things that really provide a quality listening experience. So you’re already on the path. Don’t agonize over marketing details. As I have said before, in this hobby, there are many kinds of goodness.
Best of luck and enjoyment with the choices you make.
Here are four suggestions, reinforcing and complementing what others have said, with a couple of additional thoughts for you:
First, I understand the desire to get your purchases “right” the first time and then be done with it. The problem with this, as @ProfFalkin points out, is that you don’t seem to be certain about your preferences. That’s entirely normal. I would be willing to bet that for the vast majority of members of this forum, audio preferences change with more experience (at the very least, they’d become more refined). Exploration, discovery, and experimentation are part of what makes the hobby such a pleasure.
Second, I don’t know if you’ve identified an overall budget. I saw you mention $500-$700 on a DAC and an amp. For that amount, you could get a great, foundational setup with two different types of headphone, and then you’d be able to take your time to listen to both headphones and gain a decent sense of what you like over time. Sometimes it’s immediately apparent that a headphone isn’t for you. But then again, on other occasions, it can take a while to appreciate fully how great a headphone is.
So, for $700 you could go with a setup along the lines of something like this:
Total: ca. $640, excluding tax and shipping (so more or less within the budget you allocated just for a DAC and an amp).
Disclaimer: I don’t have first-hand experience with either of these brands, and many dislike the bright treble of these headphones, so be wary. But they are popular and affordable headphones and they’ve been around for many, many years. (Regardless of the specific recommendation for a bright headphone, my wider point is that you could get a different flavor headphone to complement the HD 6XX for up to $200 and not be over a $700 budget).
Third, remember that you can buy and sell used items, which not only saves you money but also reduces risk (you can re-sell a used item without incurring much of a loss). Buying used also makes it easier to experiment. You could do this before going all-in with a system you like, rather than going all-in now, blind.
Fourth, forget all the add-ons like fancy cables, USB regen devices, power supplies. But listen to FLAC files or stream Tidal HiFi or Qobuz.
(FWIW: my recommendation for someone wanting to get into the hobby would be to get a Schiit Modi 3, a Vali 2, PYST RCA cable, and a pair of Sennheiser HD 6XX headphones. You could be happy for many, many years for ca. $500).
And throw in a Schiit Loki tone control for $149 ($129 B-stock) to adjust the tone on any and all headphones. This helps mitigate issues with lower-priced headphones in particular, and to find your preferences.
The Loki can be resold on the used market in a flash.
Indeed, I am just coming to learn that all today or last night. I was watching PS Audio review about DACs and his mention of same dac chip will have vast differences between the output components or process, cannot recollect the proper terminology.
I also noticed that my computer may have also led down another hole with its bit rate and sampling.
I mean as of right now I think the dac portion is killing me. I’ve primarily set my sight on Schitt magnius. On my strive again for future proofing. Seems like it is very stable power wise and gives the option to complement any headphones I may choose at only a $100 more than what you guys recommend.
Yes, I do realize it is providing nearly two and half times the recommended requirements of the Sundara. But again, this is merely my philosophy of not needing to ever purchase another amplifier for years to come and the room for expansion.
I beyond value all of your opinions and the time you take to provide feedback. I see nothing wrong with what I’ve been told, just again trying to meet few criteria that I mention numerous times without having to break the bank.
You guys told me don’t rely on your pc dac/amp and I am listening.
But I know youre knowledgeable and trust your decision making, so I plan on getting an external dac. This is where it gets tricky applying the same factors I put into my amp decision into a dac.
I also chose the separate dac and amp for my same future proofing concept, I was very much leaning 90% into a combo.
But for example, as I babble on and on and on, the iDSD black label is appealing. But I only get portability and lose the expansion option. And it is 600, I feel like I can get a lot more variables I seek in my concept to future proof with ~400. Possibly even less
So I’m just hoping we all, those who communicate with and provide me feedback, get to understand why I’m making the choices I make. I am only saying this for you to consider what you tell me to include these factors and I’m sure it already does, not that what you’re telling me is incorrect and let me disregard it. Otherwise why bother to ask in the first place.
You guys are providing me with foundation, and I thank you all. The decisions I make are driven from your feedback 100%.
Given your stated budget and desire to future proof, take a look at the Modius DAC, Jotunheim amp, and Loki EQ. I sense you’ll be well served with EQ to customize your frequency response as mentioned above. If you want to fit squarely in your budget, I believe you need to decide between the more warm Asgard 3 versus less colored Magnius. Good luck.
I still think a Schitt stack is they way to go but the black label is a good piece of kit. Multiple connection possibilities, lots of power, transportable so you are not tied to a desk set up, works well with hard to drive headphones and/or sensitive IEMs, can do MQA (if you want). You can also use it as a DAC only, meaning that if you want to try a separate amp down the road you can use the DAC in the black label as a source.
Battery life is quite good even on Turbo mode. It tends to add warmth and smoothness to recordings which isnt a bad way to start out .
The only annoyance I have with it is that there is no standalone AC adapter for it so you may not be able to externally power it during use. Charging works through a usb port that might not work during use (cant remember). Depending upon what you run it from you may need to buy a cable adapter or Apple CCK adapter but they are pretty ubiquitous. I was going to suggest it but given your questions I thought it may be a bit of an overwhelming device as it can do a lot of things that may be confusing to the uninitiated.
You have been given a lot of good options to start with. Modi/Magni, Modius/Magnius, JDS stack all which will work well for you until you figure out if you want to rabbit hole it later. Sundara with a modius/magnius would be a very good starting point and is a relative value, even the modi/magni is good and will save you $200, you could either pocket it or put it into something like a Loki as @generic mentioned. @Tchoupitoulas point about selling things used is also something to keep in mind as you can always recoup some of your capital outlay.
Ah, sorry, I missed that you have or intend to get a Sundara @HeadphoneNoob, and I hear you about future-proofing.
DevBrada is a great resource for finding used equipment. It’s a website that pulls from all the head-fi listings and consolidates them into a single place. I provided the link in a post above in this thread - I tend to harp on about the advantages of getting used gear - if you’re careful, that is (I wouldn’t buy things used that are powered solely by batteries).
Right now there’s a Jotunheim for $270 shipped; there was one for $275 recently, as well. There’s a Modius for $180. To be clear, I’m not endorsing either of the sellers; I simply don’t know them. Right there you’d save $150, which is 2/3 of the way to getting a nice, complementary HD 6XX! 
Don’t agonize too much over this stuff. I’ve been guilty of doing that. Make sure you have fun!
Hey guys. I am looking for a headphone recommendation to pair with my Chord Mojo. I am hoping to stay within the $500 range, but can stray a little bit in either direction if needed. I travel a lot, so I assume it would be beneficial for me to gravitate towards a closed headphone. I am not totally against open if the sound in this price range is considerably better. I will go open for my desk and continue to travel with the Bose until I can buy 2.
My current headphones are Bose QC15 and have been using them forever. I am new to the audiophile headphones world, but do have decent stereo setup with my Bowers and Wilkins 683s and AudioEngine A5+ at my computer. I know these are pedestrian compared to many people, but they have worked well for me. I am typically playing with Tidal app through my computer or ipad pro with the Chord Mojo. Music ranges from classic rock, Americana, Singer/Songwriter type stuff and Texas style southern rock/country.
I greatly appreciate the help.
Good advice for @HeadphoneNoob
I like the idea of adding a Schiit Loki - that’s a nice little tone control.
@HeadphoneNoob, I appreciate the future proof thought, but it’s the future, so who knows?
The iDSD MICRO Black label is good - I was thinking about it myself. The downside is that there is no “balanced” out. That is not hugely important, especially not at first, but it may be later.
I like that it is transportable, easy to grab and go. It is not SMALL, so you won’t take it backpacking.
The same problem with the base Schiit or iFi Zen stacks - no balanced out.
If you step up to the Schiit Modius/Magnius stack, you spend $400 and are future proofed until you want to go forward into the past and play with tubes.
I do like some of the other headphone suggestions. If you have a Sundara, you might want to try some of the others suggested. I personally like Grados, and know how to tame them with the tape mod on the cheaper ones. I don’t have the SR-225, but many feel it is the best price/performance in the middle of the pack. I have the cheapies and the better RS-1e in Grado. They make me smile. But some people feel they are too generally not the RS too shrill or bright.
The HD-6xx form Drop for $200 makes sense to have as a reference. It needs power, so while it will sound good from your stack or the iDSD, it will NOT sound that good direct from your phone.
You know your budget. You know how important future proofing is. Consider the cost of a good source for streaming. But just make a decision and start listening to some music. Then you can post in the Now Playing thread, or stuff you are listening to this week.
If you’re set on a better amp than the $100 Magni, I would strongly encourage you to get the Asgard 3 instead of the Magnius. Balanced in/out may seem like an advantage, but it’s crippling. You’ll need to buy balanced cables for all of your headphones moving forward to be getting the “highest performance” out of the amp, and this will cost you dearly for a benefit that might be measurable, but not audibly preferable. It’s a “measurements-first” amp, as Schiit calls it, while the Asgard 3 is a discreet single-ended only design with a more pleasing sound. You save money by not needing balanced cables, and you get a sound which is generally preferred by the enthusiasts as well. Steve Guttenberg has a good review on the Magnius here (where he also states his preference for the Asgard 3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGVJe2QvDY8
For a DAC you could go with the Modius to stack with the Asgard, that way you’ll end up with a neat looking stack that performs to a very high standard already. The Asgard is currently my own main solid-state amp as well, and even though I’ve heard a good amount of much more expensive amps, the Asgard 3 tickles my fancy just the right way. 
Makes it hard to justify spending more on an amp really.
I personally disagree with that…I’d pick the Magnius of those two. This is why we must all find our own ways…