So now I’m mostly hesitating in between the Sundara and the HD650. To be more specific, I’d probably go for the 6XX edition since it’s WAY cheaper in Europe ATM (215€ with shipping fees for the Drop one, vs 380+€ for the 650). The downside of the Sennheiser is that I will have limited warranty, but I assume Sennheiser is reliable enough anyway?
Regarding the DAC/AMP, it seems like among enthusiasts, iFi is indeed very popular and that the ZEN DAC v2 is right in my budget. Although it seems the competition has significantly more power for a similar price (if I can read numbers properly).
I’m not sure where you are located in Europe but on top of shipping, you will have import tax and VAT etc. to pay. This can be around 40% of the price (depending on your country).
You will also need to ship it back to the US for any warranty issues but yes, Sennheiser are usually pretty reliable.
There are always compromises in the budget category: sound quality, power, features. Sometimes you’ll only get 1 or 2 out of 3. The ZenDAC has good sound quality and a lot of features in the price class.
You can attach a separate and more powerful amp to the ZenDAC for another $100+.
If I’ve done my homework correctly, apart from MQA support (which I don’t care about), there’s no point in getting the Zen Dac v2 over the v1 right? EDIT: Ah it seems really hard to find the v1 anyway. Never mind.
I own V1 and paid only about $120 or $130. The V2 came out during the COVID chip shortage and the version change seemed to follow from the chips available at the time (e.g., MQA). I’ve not read anything saying they sound different, and I have no interest in MQA myself.
Hmmm so it seems that depending on preference, people either prefer the 600 or the Sundara. However, HD600 has proven to be a reference and it’s often recommended as THE pair of headphone to own, if you can only have one. Both build quality and QC make me think it’s the more reasonable choice, even though I’m curious about planar drivers. EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention it but I do some gaming, although not a lot at the moment. Apparently the HD600 are very average because of the small soundstage / “poor” imaging. For that the HD560s would be much better. Also, they are only 139€ ATM, which is very tempting.
I might just try to get both and return the one I like the least.
Regarding DAC/AMPs, I feel like just like everything else in life, the more you know about it, the more you realize you actually don’t know anything about it! Some people say it makes a huge difference, some people say it’s not scientifically proven that there’s any difference in between these…
I’m under the impression that technically, JDS Labs’s and iFo’s hardware is slightly below but it’s more appreciated in some communities because they are western companies and therefore (or not?) more trustable. However, for the same price, the DX3 Pro+ and the K5 Pro ESS are more powerful, the former one has bluetooth too. Again, I find it hard to decide, maybe I should get one of each and send back the one I like the least?
EDIT2: just to clarify, I don’t want price to be the only factor to take into account but I can’t ignore it:
HD560s: 139€
HD600 : 400€
HD6XX: 250-280€ (import)
HD 650: 380€
Sundara: 310€
Zen Dac v2: 199€
K5 Pro ESS: 200€
DX3 Pro+: 170€
EDIT3: Just ordered a HD560s on Amazon, I will have a full month to try it. I probably won’t keep it but I guess depending on my feedback, it will help me to take a decision.
The Senn 600 family is not known for staging. Some of this follows from the amp and DAC, but it’ll always be just average.
If you read some discussions on this site, many “scientific” pronouncements are anything but scientific. The ASR/measurements crowd seems happy to judge sound quality based on charts and measurements alone. While there is some truth that many products sound the same or very similar, be cautious. Many brands do use the same AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic, or other chips. These range from inexpensive Chinese products (e.g., Sabaj, SMSL, FiiO, Topping, etc.) on up to pricey stuff like the $1,300 RME ADI2 fs. Most products using this AKM 4493 DAC chipset will sound roughly similar. However, some do a better job filtering or use better components, etc. and may sound a wee bit better. Some vendors have also screwed up a product due to design mistakes.
A bigger point of consideration is that DACs fall roughly into the “technical purity” camp or the “refined, smoothed, improved” camp. They use different types of technology, and sometimes people like one type of technology over another. The vast majority of cheaper DACs are “Delta Sigma” – to my ears the cheaper ones tend to be flattened and often have bright, whiny treble artifacts. iFi is the exception for both technology and sound quality on the low end. High-end DACs sometimes use exactly the same chips, or are sometimes quite different (see Chord, Holo, Schiit, etc.) Some of us prefer other technologies, as perceived to sound more complete, 3D, and layered, etc. This may follow from having a better way for converting digital files to audio, but they can absolutely be LESS FATIGUING and MORE PLEASANT to use than many Delta Sigma products (experience here: my ears do not lie about pain).
Measurements can’t tell you if a DAC or amp will cause hearing fatigue, ringing, or pain. Many, many expensive speaker and headphone setups cause fatigue, and this generally follows from excessive or poorly-controlled treble. So, I strongly urge you to ignore the a priori “scientifically proven” crowd and listen for yourself. Many of these folks are completely ignorant of human factors and perception research so they fixate on electrical measurements. Hobbyist notions of ‘science’ can be incomplete at best.
Some commentators also see themselves as giant killers: “My cheap XYZ sounds as good as that setup costing 10x more. That stupid rich guy failed a blind test with his super expensive setup. Ha ha ha.” They can either be fully correct (there are many awful but expensive audio setups owned by people with seemingly poor hearing), or fully incorrect. You won’t know for yourself until you hear for yourself, and you can certainly fool yourself through biases and poor test methods.
In the end, audio is a hobby meant for personal enjoyment. Listen to the opinions of others but confirm with your own ears. You won’t know until you try, so ignore all the authoritarians no matter what they believe. To see examples of the debates people have, consider that Schiit Audio sells 3 versions of its $2,000+ Yggdrasil DAC because people have reliably different tastes.
Thanks for you message. I guess it just makes sense that I try different products myself. the HD560s is easy to drive apparently so I can mostly focus on the headphone experience for now.
Don’t focus on the headphone, focus on the music. The important thing is to enjoy it. If you enjoy your music then it doesn’t matter what you use, it can be a tin can and a piece of string (which sounds much better than a lot of cell phone speakers that many people still enjoy music through!).
Perhaps the Soundcore Liberty 2? It’s an older model that retailed at $150 at launch. Now $35.
Some reviewers gushed about these upon release. I bought them and returned them, as I didn’t think their average sound was worth $150. But $35? Oh, yeah. That would be a much better deal.
I thought the sound was V-shaped, with an emphasis on bass and treble and hollowed-out mids. But that’s the standard consumer sound signature pioneered by Beats and Sony. So, if you don’t crave a more neutral, audiophile signature, these will be good for you, especially at $35. There’s also a companion EQ app that lets you tailor the sound.
Unless there’s a smokin’ Black Friday deal I’m missing, you won’t find a TWS from an audiophile brand (AKG, Sennheiser, etc.) in your price range.
That’s a good question, and I haven’t seen anything new in that line for a while. We have a topic on TWS
I got some from HiFiman in that price range on a sale, the TWS 600, and they’re pretty good, but the sale price is only available occasionally. Maybe they would be on Black Friday sale.
I suggest you ask in the topic link above. @SenyorC ?
I haven’t really tried anything in the TWS world lately worth mentioning that is inside that budget (nor much above that budget either).
I would say the Nekocake mentioned above are probably the most recent I have tried (my review is in the thread @pennstac linked above). They allow you to choose between various sound profiles.
Mine are OK. I got them on a big sale and think of them in relation to other cheap TWS. I’m not a fan of their sound but at about $50 I feel I got what I paid for. I’d prefer a wired $18 KZ ZSN any day or if I need isolation an uncomfortably inserted Etymotic is far superior.
There isn’t that much positive in TWS at that price point.
Quick update: I should receive my 560S today. I guess depending on my comments on it, I will be able to choose more easily what I want next. Maybe the Sundara could be a good opportunity to have something more different and then I’ll if I keep them or go a bit higher end with Sennheiser with the HD6-- (most likely the HD600 considering your messages).
Regard DAC/AMPs, I will most likely either go with the Zen Air DAC to save money and experience the iFi sound signature, or the Fiio K5 PRO ESS because I like its inputs/outputs as well as design more than the Zen DAC. It also seems more capable and it doesn’t have QC issues unlike Topping.
Just received them about an hour ago. It feels a bit tight compared to my very old Fidelio X2 but I guess it’s a matter of time. It’s still very comfortable and light. Build quality feels solid. I have tiny ears so the over-ear caps easily covers my ears.
Is burning actually a scientific thing or it’s just placebo / a matter of getting used to the headphones?
I’ll try it in better conditions tonight but so far so good, on my laptop, it’s plenty loud at 30% volume.
Regarding sound, it’s a bit early to tell, but it really sounds good on Frank Ocean. I was expecting to be disappointed by the lows considering I come from V shaped headphones, but I actually really like them.
A quick question, for my X2, I might need a 3,5mm to 6,35mm adapter. Any recommendation, should I go for something like this: https://i.imgur.com/tmSv7xP.png or like this: https://i.imgur.com/ZrTH7Pj.png
In terms of durability and sound quality. I assume it’s similar but I prefer to ask just in case.
I’m in the latter camp. Floyd Toole found driver burn-in occurs after a very short period of time, and found no scientific evidence suggesting things actually improve afterwards. Also, the pads wearing in/conforming properly to your head can affect sound. So yeah, take time to get used to the sound/allow the pads to break in, then determine if it’s for you or not.
