The iFi EQ is something that is fixed to what they interpret as improving the sound. Whether or not you agree is up to your ears
The thing that iFi take pride in is in using EQ only in the Analog domain, with no digital manipulation. Again, if that is better or not is up to the interpretation of each person.
The ZEN Air DAC is actually what I meant when I said One series, sorry about that, I got the models confused. The Zen Air DAC is a decent DAC that you can always add an amp to if you need it.
I think that in recent models, FiiO has tamed your treble issue. Certainly I don’t get anything like that on their admittedly flagship K9 Pro. In fact, they tamed THX with a specially made chip. Seems very clean and neutral, which goes well with my slightly warmish headphones.
@Tomatot is getting a lot of good advice here. Obviously, I agree re the Sennheiser line, having recently written a 25 year late review of my HD-580. The 6xx I have is clearly a more competent headphone.
@Tomatot, I also own an earlier iFi DAC/AMP, the predecessor to the Gryphon, and when I needed a Bluetooth connection to an amp, I went with their Zen Blue V2 DAC. It’s hard to go wrong with them at the price, and they are quite resealable should you decided you don’t care for the sound or want to move up.
I’ve also been lucky with my HiFiman purchase. I think I’ve been hearing less about quality issues in the last year or so, so be very cautious if you purchase used. I have a version 2 HE-560.
Finally, if you are thinking mostly desktop, the rather new Sabaj a20d 2022 version DAC/AMP is very competent in the price range. It is much lighter than a FiiO but is still well made. Both @Lothar_Wolf and I bought one. My wife inherited her Mom’s house, and I keep the Sabaj there for occasional use. It does EVERYTHING that I really need is Balanced, has adequate power, can connect via Bluetooth and USB (and I think coax, don’t use that). Price/performance of the Sabaj is outstanding. I found one issue with the USB, see my review in the SABAJ area.
Apparently it’s actually a DAC/AMP combo, so an AMP shouldn’t be needed right? Or then I should just go a DAC-only device and then get an AMP, right?
What I don’t understand is that in some reviews, they basically say that sound is just perfectly neutral/transparent and that you won’t get anything better. So I was assuming the benefit of bigger AMPs/DACs was mostly a question of features, connectivity, power, etc. more than sound quality itself. With my limited budget, isn’t it usually more worth to spend most of my money in the headphones rather than the DAC/AMP?
In comparisons I checked, usually the HD560s was the winner by a tiny margin, but it’s good to hear different point of views, I’ll keep in mind.
Yes, it is a combo but depending on what headphones you are going to drive, you may need more power. You can read my review on it here for more details:
Better is very subjective once you get out of DACs/Amps that don’t perform well and into decent ones.
And while I do agree that the headphones will make most difference, certain headphones do work better with certain amplifiers.
I am not sure what comparisons you are referring to but the HD6 series is generally regarded higher than the HD5 series.
However, they are headphones that scale well and do need a certain amount of power, so if the comparison was done on something like a smartphone, PC headphone jack etc. then it is possible that the HD560 performed better.
I wish I could give multiple stars for that reply.
@Tomatot, you’ve done your due diligence by trying to read reviews. You’re taking a good, deliberate approach in figuring out how to spend your money. The fact that you are here looking implies that you may well be starting a process and a hobby that can be very rewarding. If so, you will over the years try out different things, spend more than you intended, and will have your ears teach you what your tastes really are in amps, equipment, musical styles and recordings.
@SenyorC, a respected reviewer (sorry @SenyorC I had to say it) is exactly correct regarding DAC/AMPs in the quote above.
That will not stop some reviewers and forums from magnifying subtle differences and forming cliques and fan groups around certain equipment and vilifying others. You may need high end headphones and other equipment PLUS a trained ear to even hear those differences.
Further, words like “neutral” may not be neutral. Some reviewers take that as a good thing - neutral, it doesn’t add anything or subtract anything. Some reviewers take that as bad - it’s only neutral. It doesn’t add any synergy with my equipment.
When you are starting, Neutral is not a bad thing. As long as it’s not paired with words like harsh.
I must also agree with @SenyorC about the HD-600 or 650 over anything in the 5 series. They DO require a certain amount of power, and if underpowered the 5 series can sound better. But that is not the case when they are given enough juice. The 650 is notorious for being able to sound just a little bit better as you improve your setup. It is also a very standard headphone in reviews, so if you get one, and you read reviews, and they compare one headphone to another the HD-650 is frequently the reference. It’s therefore useful to know, even if its not your favorite headphone.
Whatever sources you are reading: If the Senn 500 series is ranked above the 600 series they are NOT talking about sound quality! They may refer to overall experience or cost/benefit, but the Senn HD 600 and HD 650 are legendary headphone standards.
Sennheiser conveniently ranks potential sound quality by series number:
500 ~~ Quality consumer
600 ~~ Entry level audiophile and historical professional
800 ~~ Serious audiophile and current professional
That seems to be a mass-market, Youtube, Reddit, and Audio Science Review viewpoint. Some ‘neutral’ amps sound like harsh, edgy, glassy trash. Some non-neutral products sound great.
You must listen for yourself. Reviews only go so far.
Yes, prices can reflect build quality, features, power, and more. Sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you pay $$$$$$$$ for just a brand name or a huge, beautiful item that sounds the same as other cheap and small items. It depends.
Is really relevant to compare mostly the first digit (5 vs 6) rather than the whole reference? I will also be answering @SenyorC but basically what I usually read is that:
The HD 560s has better soundstage, imaging, bass
The HD 600/660 are better in trebles and details?
Regarding DACs, it really seems like the iFi brand is the favorite in here. I guess the Zen DAC v2 would be the best for me, as 200€ sounds like a good price to me.
Damn, the audiosciencereview is stellar about it, and it just got released. This is really tempting I have to say. It’s definitely going on my wish list!
Thanks a lot, I appreciate your comment and that my efforts are noticed :D.
To go back to this topic, I mostly had this video in mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SPYFdj2tWc - I have no idea how DMS is regarded in here. In several reddit threads I have seen, many people preferred the 560s too. I was under the impression that the 560s was something different compared to the rest of the 5-- series. But I’ll read more about the 600 and 650 then!
The 500 series will sound “as good as they can” from a phone, tablet, or PC. The 600 series will often sound worse unless paired with an appropriate DAC and amp. The 600 series has a devout following of hardcore users. Many people reference the 600 or 650 when comparing new and more expensive products. It’s the ‘common language’ of audiophile and professional grade headphones.
DMS has worked with headphones.com, and is pretty well regarded IMO. I’ve not seen that video but that’s a budget gear roundup. Now, any given setup can sound better than another arbitrary setup. Some people will like X, Y, or Z. There is no absolute best, just what you personally prefer.
The source music (compressed MP3 versus CD and better) makes a quality difference, the DAC and amp absolutely matter, and some of us hear differences through balanced amps (especially with Sennheiser). Cables can make a difference but are often highly controversial and should be your last consideration.
I assume reviewers praise the Sundara a lot more than you because they usually don’t pay / have more pairs of headphones so they’re not worried as much about QC?
As I just said, I’ll read more about the 600 and 650. How would you differentiate them?
The 600 is neutral-to-bright with modest bass. The 650 has thick middle bass with (arguably) rougher vocal range performance. Some love one or the other.
The 600 was my first set of serious headphones, and I found them to be scratchy and harsh until getting the right DAC/amp combo. These days the iFi ZenDAC is my recommendation, as its warmth and balanced output nicely offests their brightness.
I bought a 650 (actually the Drop 6XX – same internals) and wouldn’t pair it with the same amps at all. It’s warm and does best with some of my tube amps. If you prefer a thicker, bass-heavy sound it may be your first choice.
If possible try before buying. Check out any local stores and/or audio shows nearby.
EDIT:
Some love HiFiMan products. They often do sound great. If you are a light user and/or keep only under warranty it may not matter.
I have to say I’m quite tempted still. Planar drivers seem like an interesting experience, and so many reviewers praise these headphones, especially since the 2020 silent revision. I’ll try to get them from Amazon so if I have problems, I should easily get my money back.
Unfortunately I’m currently in a small town so I can’t try anything and I don’t think I can hold for another month after all this hype. Also, I’d like to see if I find good deals on Friday. From your description, I think I would prefer the 650 over the 600 since I usually enjoy bass (whether it’s when listening to funk, disco or hip-hop). What combo/stack would you recommend then, with a good value?
Fortunately, I will ideally buy my hardware on Amazon and therefore I can send it back if I really don’t like it.
I run my headphones off a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DAC, and my second system has the ifi ZenDAC. However, I almost never use the 650 on the ZenDAC. The Bifrost DAC feeds into several amps.
I prefer neutral headphones over bass heavy. That means not bass light, not heavy, but evenly balanced overall. So, the 650 isn’t my first choice in headphones most of the time. For me, the 650 turns into a harmonics / reverb king on the right tube amp – it sounds quites different than on a solid state amp. I’ve experienced this on a DarkVoice 336 and Bottlehead Crack.
Um, the thing about ASR is that they go stellar over things that measure well. Occasionally, they have been known to use variant meter sticks.
A coffin can measure well. That doesn’t mean you should be in a rush to get in one, or that one that measures less well won’t serve the purpose.
That said, I found that the Sabaj sounds good with my headphones. I needed a reasonably priced all-in-one with more than adequate power and it had the features I wanted. There is a serious implementation (that may be something they can fix with a firmware update) flaw in their USB-C connection. It must use USB-2 data rates, which means only some cables work right, or you use an adapter that forces USB-2 data rates. This is plenty for music and doesn’t affect performance, but it is the only flaw/klunky part that I know of.
After finally catching up on the reading and suggestions this morning, and taking into considering your location @Tomatot, I agree with the recommendation above. Feel free to swap out the HD 600 with the 650, but the 6XX series paired with the iFi ZenDac is a solid recommendation. I’m sure it would sound great driving the Sundara as well.
Another option, if you’re inclined to increase your budget a little, is the newly announced Moondrop Venus planar magnetic headphone. Based on the reviews from the people I actually trust, it’s on par or a little better than the Sundara sound-wise, and it has much better build quality.
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That’s a good one. Am I free to use that?