Thanks all 3 of you. It seems to be a tie for the Edition XS and the Elex for me now. I need to do some more research and reviews to eventually shoot me shot at one of them.
I have seen some comments online about people also suggesting the HD650 or HD660S/S2, but from the very little research I have done, they both seem to be considered “dark”-sounding headphones which is something I absolutely do not like. I assume that this is not a thing with the both of them? My understanding around reading frequency graphs is very little so I have a hard time telling.
A second question that I like to ask: if I decide to get the Hifimans, then I need to invest in an Amp given that my current setup is only the Abigail dongle which likely won’t run them properly. I wanted something relatively cheap yet powerful, and a few options I have found are the FiiO K5 or the Soundblaster G6. I wondered if both are just a fine pick or if either of the 2 are better? Want to keep my budget around 150 euros for that.
In terms of what is considered “good” in that range, Arya and HD 800S usually also make the list, but they both want more power than the Focals or Audezes. I’d also guess that the HD800S may not work for you without EQ unless you are prioritizing classical above your other genres. Audezes also appreciate EQ, and if you are planning to EQ at home, it would be ideal if you could try EQ in the shop.
I’m not sure of your priorities. A lot of the stuff you auditioned excel at dynamics and bass reproduction, but many of them didn’t do it for you. It’s possible you might be looking for natural midrange/vocal presentation. For me, this would exclude a lot of planars and the focal clear og I used to have. I really like my HD600 on an OTL amp for vocals.
I find it hard to jump from one headphone to another in a short session. In the long run, the gear that sounds the most different from one recording to another end up being the one I like the best, even if they aren’t the most euphonic on a particular track.
For more ideas, you may want to flip through the “what you have in your collection and why” thread on this forum.
Good luck!
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Thanks for the suggestions! Thinking about it, I believe I do favor the midrange/vocals of tracks with bass being right behind (I don’t want the bass to overwhelm me, but I miss it if it’s not there). I’ve seen the “what you have in your collection and why” thread, but haven’t spent any time there. Guess I’ll hop over and see if I can pick up some more ideas.
Stay that way. Your ears are more trustworthy than a squiggle on paper. The graphs can give you a general idea.
Take a look through @SenyorC 's reviews of cheap IEMs. Lots of graphs. And so many times what he hears is only somwhat related to the graph. Can you find a graph of soundstage across frequency or across volume levels? What about imaging?
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Fiio k5 should be enough in terms of power.
I would only recommend Sounblaster g6 if you need a microphone. I didn’t try g6 myself but people recommends ae-5 over g6, and ae-5 good, I tried it and ae-5 probably better than fiio k5 pro in terms of sound quality, but form factor can be a problem.
For me Fiio k5 was loud, but somehow flat and not very clean.
There is also a chance that your current audio interface can handle it, although it may not give the maximum.
The headphones in question are not so demanding.
My Sundars and Elear play fine from an apple dongle, but I usually prefer a more serious source to get a better sound.
By the way, Qudelix 5k can be decent option with integrated EQ and bluetooth. I personally like how it sounds with Sundara.
One follow up, since I spaced this use-case. Rather than tote around a two-pound Audeze while doing chores, or trying to hear an open-back over clanging dishes or vacuuming and such, or schmutzing your beautiful new Focals, how about reserving a small portion of the budget for some knock-arounds? Lightweight easy-to-drive closebacks like the AKG 361/371, or some nice IEMs, if that would work, or something with ANC+bluetooth, like Airpod pro2s? Then you wouldn’t have to compromise for the fancy set, and could consider some of the harder-to-drive recs you’re getting (or will get). Just a thought.
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@JFanelN7 If you live anywhere near one of the CanJam locations, I recommend you go to one for a couple of days and try absolutely everything you can. It’s a lot of fun.
I own the Celestee and Stellia, and knowing that you like them, I think that you’d probably like the upcoming ZMF “budget” headphone (as far as I know, it doesn’t have a name yet) that’s coming out later this year. But since ZMF sells direct, you’d either need to buy blind or go to a CanJam to try it out.
My absolute favorite sub-$1000 headphones that you can buy today are made by ETA, another company that sells direct, so you save on the typical markups when you buy from a store.
The O2 is my favorite, with a spacious but detailed sound, warm mids and wicked bass. The only potential issue is that it’s an on-ear headphone, which may feel a bit weird if you’re used to over-ear, but it wasn’t an issue for me. Most of my headphones are a lot more expensive, so I’m not going to pretend that it’s at the same level as those, but it does do a good job at getting close. So even though it isn’t my daily driver, it is the one I take with me on vacation, supplanting the Celestee.
The Semi Closed is also very good IMO, but it doesn’t have the stage of the O2. Before I got the O2, this was the headphone that supplanted the Celestee as my travel headphone. When I bought the O2, I gave the Semi Closed to my son, who thought it was better than his 6XX and also liked it more than the Celestee.
ETA has a 15 day return policy, so it’s easy to try their stuff out.
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That’s a great suggestion! I’ve heard good things about the AKG 371 so I’ll look more into that. My wife has some wireless IEMs by Sony which I like and I wouldn’t mind trying that, I’ve just never been successful with finding some that fit my ears. I’d be game if I can get some to fit. I’ll check out that IEM guide on headphones.com and see what options are there.
I live in SC so a CanJam is out for the foreseeable future. I’d love to make it to one at some point cause they seem like a blast! Of all the headphones I’ve seen and read reviews about I’d be the most willing to buy a ZMF headphone blind since the majority of what I’ve heard about them as been highly positive. I like there look and everyone seems to have a lot of respect for Zach. I’ve never heard of ETA. I’ll look the O2’s up as well. Lot of great suggestions guys, thanks!
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Come to NYC in February! We hope to see you there.
It’s a similar show in terms of audience size and number of members from this community that will be there.
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@Nuance @Fc-Construct I was lucky enough to find a HiFi-store in my city (which is relatively new) and I was able to demo the Focal Clear, Hifiman Arya and HD800s.
I must admit, I ended up being a bit dissapointed. Maybe my expectations were a bit too high, but in the end it did not feel like as if the sound quality took a massive leap.
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tested the Focal Clears first. Vocals/instruments felt a little recessed and the headphones felt a bit on the “warm” side/veiled. Bass had a good punch to them, and I heard a few minor details in songs that I did not hear before. Weird thing is though: The Clears aren’t that bright, right? I still felt like that the higher frequencies were more pronounced, but not in a bad way. Hard to describe given I do not have the right vocabulary to explain it. It felt like that certain higher-sounds were more present. Cannot really give a comment about the soundstage. I am not a general fan of a warm sound, so the Focals came second place for me.
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Tested the Hifiman Arya second. Their sound signature fitted me personally much better. To my ears they had a little less pronounced bass (compared to the Focals), but the vocals and instruments were much more forward. They headphones very neutral with a very pleasant vocal and instrumental presence, which were more forward than on my HD560. On 1 specific track it was a super good listening experience. Definitely my number 1.
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With the HD820s last, i did not like them. Terrible for music, but people are right about their good imaging and very wide soundstage, though.
So my expectations have now been tempered a lot. If I would upgrade, then the Hifiman Edition XS would be my last headphone to buy, but otherwise my HD560s are more than capable. The potential increase in quality was too little for me to notice to invest in anything higher than the Edition XS.
Thanks for the help. I have now managed to make my choice. I do wonder though, what is the proper way to describe sound signature of the Edition XS? If the 560s are “neutral bright”, then the Edition XS are …?
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Hey @kameili, I don’t think that’s too out of line! Diminishing returns hits pretty hard in this hobby for sure.
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Did you try the Clear or the Clear Mg? They’re pretty different headphones! The Mg is even warmer than the Clear and has more of a vocal recession. The Clear has that too, but not to the same extent. When you get the Clear or Utopia, you’re really going for the bass dynamics and weight. And you aren’t wrong about them being weirdly “bright”. The Clear isn’t particularly treble forward (as in, pervasive), but does exhibit a few treble peaks that can give it a bit of a harsh sound and introduce sibilance.
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If you liked the Arya, give the HiFiMan Ananda a try over the Edition XS. I personally found the Ananda to be more comfortable and didn’t have as hard of an upper treble peak. The price difference is a bit hard to swallow though. The Edition XS will sound pretty similar to the Arya but “cut down” on a technical level and has a couple minor tonal differences. HiFiMan headphones are funny - they all graph very very similarly but they quite consistently get better as the price goes up. But if you enjoyed the HiFiMan type of sound, that might be it for you.
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Did you hear HD800S or HD820? They’re very, very different headphones. HD800S is open back, HD820 is not. They’re quite a different type of headphone to the HD560s. Have you tried the HD600 or HD650? Those would be more direct upgrades to the HD560s. Or even the Focal Elex if you’re another step up.
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Kameili–you came here to ask for advice, but instead taught us all a valuable lesson in overcoming upgraditis. Well done and keep enjoying those great HD560s!
That said, I have three reactions:
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The “bright-while-being-not-bright” character of the Focal Clears is a real thing. I’d call it a “metallic sheen” over the vocal region, but this doesn’t seem to be a widely-shared criticism. This characteristic is pretty different from any Sennheiser I’ve heard.
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If you ever really need to return to shopping, you might get better suggestions from a pro-forum. Your use-case is a little atypical.
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As far as the gear that tends to get discussed here, I’d bet there’s an Audeze that would be great for you based on your posts. They’re planars, like your top choice, but they are very dynamic for rocking out, several of them are extremely efficient so you can play them well off of anything, and, at least the LCD-x and the MM500 are popular with sound engineers and other pro-users. Downsides=cost (although the open-boxes can be within budget), weight, some of them really need EQ. (Sorry-ignore this last bullet and stand strong with your blow against consumerism!)
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That’s how I hear Focal’s products too, and think the metallic sheen is a common perception. Some say that dynamic drivers routinely have undertones that sound like the material they are made from: paper, plastic, metal, etc. I definitely hear plastic with the HD-600 and metal with Focal’s headphones.
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oh, glad to have company and I stand corrected. I heard people say this about cymbals and such, but, like I think you’re saying, I hear it across the vocals which was a deal-breaker for me, even though that Focal punch is very addictive.
I guess it’s more that they are rated so highly, and when I had them I wrangled with the fact that none of the pro-reviewers were bothered by it.
I agree they sound very different from the HD600s, and I guess I love me some plastic.
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Yeah, you’re definitely not alone.
I don’t know if they necessarily sound metallic to me but I’m not a fan. I haven’t really put my finger on what it is really other than they are fatiguing for me….sound wise and fit.
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I heard about the “diminishing returns” before, but I honestly did not expect to hit it so quickly… As I said, I think my expectations were simply too high.
Thank you for the other input though! That “sheen” really does make sense in how it describes the sounds I heard with the headphones. They weren’t unpleasant, but they did catch me a little off guard.
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I did hear the regular Clear and not the Clear MG. I read somewhere online that there indeed was a difference between the two.
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I will keep on the look out if they ever go in sale!
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My bad, it looks like I made a mistake in my comment. I listened to the 800s, and not the 820. I was not fortunate enough to listen to the 600 or 650 given that they had no demo unit for it, however, I did hear that the 650 are more “darker” sounding, correct? If that is the case then the 600 might be a better fit because I am not a big fan of that signature, but honestly, I think the Edition XS is the better choice for me. I do not think I can muster much more money out for a headphone purchase given that my perception of the potential differences was just too small.
I do appreciate all the help I have received however, and I am happy that I had an opportunity to demo the units so I could get a reality check on my expectations.
