Looking for some general guidance - From reading reviews here, it seems I am narrowing my next cans purchase to the Aeolus, Clear, or if I stretch; Stellia or Verite.
I like to listen to:
( In order of frequency - )
Indie / alt country / singer songwriter
Classical - heavy on symphony, less frequency the smaller the groups get. Lots of modern classical, (Glass, Adams, Reich)
Jazz - Big Band, bop, everyone in the female vocalists thread
Rock - 90s alternative, punk, classic 60s and 70s (think Bowie, not Eagles)
Opera - The big ass romantic stuff.
I will be using them for: (Travel, commuting, home, gym, etc…):
Home - running of a modius / magnius, or hip dac for now. Future plans include a high end solid state amplifier and Bifrost 2 (or similar price / value / performance DAC). The Burson stuff looks cool. I’m not allergic to tubes, but I’m not drawn to them either. If I were going to try tubes it would almost certainly be starting with a Lyr or similar to get my feet wet. Although, I would love an excuse to build a bottle head.
So really two questions,
Any thoughts on Focal House sound vs ZMF house sound?
If I order a ZMF, how do I spec it, (which pas, wire, etc)?
Thank you all for running such a great little tribe here.
At any point someone says “travel/commuting” I rule out ZMF. They are as much art as they are masterful headphones. It’s just too risky, the potential for damaging them way too high.
I would suggest the Stellia then. Radiance perhaps. A good DAP or bluetooth amp + smartphone is still recommended. The BTR 5 might be good and inexpensive? I bet somebody has one around here along with some focal headphones who could chime in regarding that.
I’ve had the Clear Professionals for nearly a year and my opinion on them still hasn’t settled, and I’m starting to think it never will. Under the right conditions (and I have no idea what these conditions are) they’re something of a Goldilocks headphone: they are very good at most things, and no aspect of their performance stands out to the detriment of any other.
However, under the wrong conditions (again, I have no idea what these are), their consistent excellence congeals into something akin to mediocrity, and I find myself questioning what I (and everyone else) sees in them.
This may have something to do with the headphones I have to compare them to: the Oppo PM-1 and Sennheiser HD 800s. The Oppos are dark, intimate but wide, with the etched separation characteristic of planars; the Sennheisers are spacious, articulate and transparent, with an unparalleled sense of immediacy. The Sennheisers awe me with their sense of scale; the Oppos beguile me with their dark magic; the Clears sometimes objectively impress me with their undeniable all-round competence, but never set my pulse racing.
Based on your genre preferences, my recommendation (if at all possible) would be to demo the Sennheiser HD 800s, which are outstanding for classical, jazz and opera. If their shortcomings are too apparent with indie and rock (this hasn’t been my experience), it may make sense to stretch for the Verites…
… or you may find - like seemingly everyone else - that the Clears give you enough of everything for all genres, and you’re perfectly happy with them.
I’ve read most of the posts in the community about the Asgard 3. Currently I own a LehamnnAudio Linear head amp which has three gain options and is to my ears neutral. I’d like to add a single ended amp to the Linear, something less neutral, clinical and more warm, more fun like kind of amp. I’m compulsive so I’m avoiding the get into tubes, don’t want another rabbit hole to fall in. I’ve read in the community posts that the Asgard 3 compared to the Jotunheim sounds warmer and has a little more spacious stage which I believe would suite to my needs. I’ve read also that the Asgard 2 was more warm and soft in comparison to A3. I see Asgard 2 is still available from Schiit as clearance product. I use Grado GS1000, Hifiman Sundara and Aeon Closed Noire is on it’s way to me. I mostly listen to vinyl from a Rega P3 with Exact cartridge and a LehamannAudio Black Cube phono stage. Can you please confirm the impressions I have collected and give me some hints based on direct listening experience? If you have in mind alternatives to what I’m considering (no Phonitor at the moment in my mind) they’re welcome. Thank you so much for your kind attention and have a nice day.
I have both Asgard 2 and 3. I prefer 3. They are both warm, yes, but the 3 does it in a more cohesive way - less bloom, seems more tonally correct for most of my headphones. A2 does seem more analog tho, kind of a comforting smoothness there.
Your impressions of Jotunheim 1 vs Asgard 2/3 are fairly accurate, me thinks. Jot 1 I would not pair with brighter headphones.
If you want warm and good stage, Jotunheim 2 would be my current recommendation. It has better stage than all of the above. I would not pair Jot2 with headphones that don’t need more oomph in the impact/detail department (Focal Clear/Utopia) as it might be too much. For that, I would fall back to the Asgard 3.
It’s hard to suggest which would be better for your situation. I’m not a Grado fan. I don’t spin vinyl.
Thank you so much for your accurate reply, very useful. Since I bought the Sundara Grado are sitting on my desk and with Aeon coming I believe they will seat longer and longer. Not a Grado fan, just had the chance to get the GS1000 and wanted to give them a try. Anyway your description of the amps confirmed the idea I’ve had reading the posts from the community. Correct tonality is an important point for me so I believe I’ll go with the A3. Thank you and have good times.
And this is why I have minimal interest in buying ZMF’s products. My art budget goes to actual art or at least non-electronic durable goods. My headphone budget goes to products that sit on my head and get sweaty, banged around, and otherwise seriously used.
What are the prospects of ZMF ever releasing a plain Jane studio edition?
One idea is to separate the home and travel uses. Some people choose the headphones for home use and then an IEM for gym/travel.
If you are not focused solely on the music, like when working out, you may not need your ideal sound quality. You could spend $20-$50 for an unoffensive IEM and then not have to worry about it getting dirty, banged around in a bag, etc.
Hello - your assessment is generally accurate. I view the lineup as follows, from warm/colored to neutral/uncolored: Asgard 2 > Jot 2 SE > Asgard 3 > Jot 2 XLR > Jot 1 > Magnius.
The Jot 2 has the best overall technicalities, including stage, and most versatility.
When choosing an amp and then fine tuning, you also have the flexibility of changing your cartridge. For example, a Grado cart (warm) and Magnius may be able to get you to a similar place sonically as an Ortofon cart (neutral bright) and Asgard 2.
I’d recommend the Jot 2 and Hart Audio modular cables that will allow you to switch between and use the single ended and XLR outputs. If not, then the Asgard 3 due to its balance of technicalities and enjoyment factor, where the Asgard 2 is more extreme in warmth at the expense of technicalities (I still found the Asgard 2 enjoyable, and it may serve as a good complementary amp). Good luck.
A few thoughts for you, some of which echo the suggestions of others:
if traveling, I’d share @ProfFalkin’s concern about damage to a pair of ZMFs. I’d go further and would say that I’d be concerned about dinging up my Focal Clear.
The Focals offer the advantage of having a good, compact case for transporting the headphones. The Clear and Stellia are also reasonably easy to drive, inc. by decent DAPs. I’m not sure the same can be said of the ZMFs?
I wouldn’t want either for commuting, much less the gym - I agree completely with @NickZ that IEMs would serve you better here. I’d go for a cheap pair of IEMs for the gym regardless of whatever else you get for serious listening
@Reflect also makes some great points, and while we have different takes on the Clear, I get where he’s coming from and think it’s worth being attentive to the question of whether you’d like the sound of the Clear. Can you audition it? While Reflect has the HD 800s, I have the HD 800 SDR and I share Reflect’s take on the differences between the Senns and the Focals. My only hesitation in recommending the Senns is amplification: they like tubes and, as high-impedance headphones, I’m not sure the HD 800s are well-suited for transportable, much less portable use.
I love my Clear, have had them 11 months now, and I find them to be the ideal all-rounder headphone for the price.They play well with all genres of music, although the narrow, small staging is not well suited to classical or opera. (The HD 800s is your best bet there). The Clear’s sound is nicely balanced: the bass extends well and is strong and punchy without being bloomy (I dislike mid-bass humps and the Focal’s happily hump-free); the mids are even and coherent; the highs extend well but have a slightly hard, crystalline quality at times, depending on the music; the macro-dynamics are strong, the headphones are really engaging, and the resolution is excellent. Tyll Hertsen’s review for innerfidelity is spot on (you can find it via the wayback machine, I think).
I found other headphones in the price range to have deal-breaking issues for me. I haven’t heard the Aeolus enough to offer a decent comparison with the Clear. My sense is that it’s a bit warmer and smoother, less aggressive, similarly dynamic, and with a richer, better timbre. Again, though, this is a matter of taste and preference, and I’ve not heard the Aeolus for long enough to be confident about these comments.
So, given the above, I have a couple of suggestions;
If you’re amenable to IEMs, you could get a pair of excellent IEMs for travel and commuting - something like the Andromeda, MEST, ThieAudio offerings, etc. - along with a good DAP, and a Clear/Aeolus for not much more than the same price of the Stellia
I feel quite foolish. The “I will be using them for” section was a copy-pasta from the first post to make sure I answered all the questions. I intended the line below it where I detail how I will use them at home to answer the question.
This purchase is for home use only. no gym, no commute, no travel.
Does that change your recommendation re: the zmfs?
I had a pair of Sennheisers a while back, much lower in the line, and would rather punch myself in the face than buy more of that sound. I am sure the 800 is a different animal, but due to my past, I will need to audition it before I could even begin to consider it.
I am absolutely only using these at home. My poorly constructed post was the result of a copy - paste to make sure I answered all the questions.
I am actually so amenable to iems that I will keep using my apple wireless thingy for working out. ( because, the only thing I need when working out is to not hear my inner voice telling me to go home and eat a bag of Oreos dunked in peanut butter washed down with a bottle of 4 roses)
I only heard the Stellia briefly but it was pretty impressive. I’m a fan of the Focal house sound and the Stellia basically ticked all of the boxes for me while having superb resolution and decent soundstage, for a closed-back headphone. Typically, congestion is a bother for me, as is suffocatingly small soundstage - the Focals are as narrow as I’d care to go - but the Stellia didn’t bother me at all. (I should add the disclaimer that I wouldn’t get a pair myself; if I were to drop that kind of coin on a headphone, it would be for an open back)
Not to make life more complicated for you but if the Stellia is in your budget, and if you’re interested in ZMF cans, you might take a look at the Vérité headphones, open or closed back.
I’ll let others chime in about amplification for the Vérité - they apparently benefit from tubes…
Good advice given above. I would add that there might be enough variation among particular models that you might want to compare specific models (and look up comparisons others have provided throughout this forum): e.g., VO vs Utopia, VC vs Stellia, other ZMF opens vs Clear, etc.
That being said, Focal is said to have more detail retrieval, dynamics, imaging precision, overall technicalities. ZMF has more natural timbre, larger stage and images, and euphony. This is what I’ve observed when listening to the VC, Eikon, Utopia, and Clear.
That is a very interesting take on the Clears. Thank you for taking the time. As I mentioned to @Tchoupitoulas I have trust issues with Sennheiser, and will need to audition some in person post covid before I can get over my resistance.
It’s my opinion that the HD600/650/800 are still in a class of their own in the Sennheiser line up, and nothing they have put out since scale as well or sound as good on well matched chains. It’s kind of mind boggling, really. It’s kind of like… once Ferrari had made the Testarossa and F40, they then decided to produce nothing but Toyota Camry knock offs after that. That’s Sennheiser in a nutshell.
Anyway, I guess my point is that I’m not surprised at your Sennheiser trust issues, and while I’m sure you’d be thrilled driving a F40 around, cars like the Aventador and DB11 exist now.
About recommendations then. I think that what makes some Focal headphones attractive for many is also what pushes others away eventually. They effortlessly produce detail and impact, but on the other hand they just seem to wear you down after a while. I can, and usually do, wear my Verite or Auteur for hours and hours without issue, but with the recent Utopia loaner I was reminded what listening fatigue was. After a while I had to stop listening. Having a lack of staging just seems to make that more intense, almost claustrophobic experience as well. It’s like being locked in a phoneboth with a guy talking into a megaphone. (Ok, not really, but you get the point.)
Anyway… This works against you when you want to just chill, relax, and sink into the music, in my experience. Most Focal headphones can jar me out of such meditative relaxation with their insistent nature. Especially Utopia. I don’t have that problem with Verite, but I still get a speedy detailed sound.
So, I guess it comes down to how you listen. I’m more of a relax and get lost in the music kind of listener. I imagine that folks who put mental energy into actively listening probably find the Focals more appealing.
What should you buy? Damned if I know. I think the Clear are excellent. I prefer the Aeolus. Eikon are fun, but I wouldn’t listen to jazz or classical on them. Stellia are butt-ugly, but they do so many things very well it’s not hard to recommend. I still prefer Auteur over almost anything in the Sennheiser or Focal line up, it’s just that good as a jack of all trades type of headphone. It might be the best starting point for anyone looking to test the ZMF waters.