General purchase advice: Ask your questions/for advice here!

Purchase Advice
1407

Hi everyone! New to the forum and also I am a newbie to audio (not an audiophile).

The type of headphone I am looking for is: closed back and full enclosed (completely covering the ears). I would like to see more detail/better instrument separation (soundstage?) in my next headphone.

The type of DAC I am looking for is: I do not have any experience with this so I will need some help. My source would preferably be the phone, but I can use my computer too. I am not sure if I will also need an amp?

My price range is: within $5000 USD for both the headphone + DAC.

I like to listen to: Japanese music (Jrock/Jpop). Most of my files are in the lossless format (local files).

My prefer tonal balance is: warm/bassy with not too much harshness in the treble (less sibilance from vocals/less harshness from cymbals?). I am not sure if I have a good reference for this. I used the Sony xm3’s Bluetooth ANC headphones and I thought that the midrange was kind of overwhelming.

I will be using them for: home use in the living room.

I appreciate any help/advice.

7 Likes
1408

Hi and welcome to the forum. Given your musical and sound quality preferences I’d for these:

  1. Headphone: Focal Célestes. I believe it’s sound signature will pair well with your music. Closed, large ear cups, great sounding, easy to drive.
  2. DAC+AMP: since you definitely need an amp I’ll give you two solutions
    a) Mobile friendly: Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt is small, powerful enough for Célestee and even colour matching. With an OTG cable you can use it with your phone or plug in your PC via USB. It is a DAC AMP combo.
    b) Quality: Schiit Magni 3 and Schiit Modi 3. For less money than Cobalt you get a quality headphone amp and a good DAC. This will work with your PC but not with your phone.
    There are many alternatives.
    I only write about and suggest what I know.
    I hope this helps.
    Enjoy
2 Likes
1409

Thanks, glad to know that there is a headphones community! I appreciate the help.

  1. I did not know that the Focal Celestes was a new product! This is definitely more affordable than the Focal Stellia.
  2. Since I do not have a lot of experience with DAC/AMP, the Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt looks friendlier to me.
2 Likes
1410

I think this doesn’t really fit your price range since you’re willing to go up the chain pretty high with $5000 but the Sony CD900st is built for japanese music. After getting these headphones, my music choices have swung tremendously over to Japanese/Korean music. It’s not super expensive either so it might be something you can sneak into your setup with your budget.

3 Likes
1411

Look at ZMF. I have no idea if they fit your musical needs, but the people who do like them tend to absolutely love them. Also considered among the best closed models on the market.

6 Likes
1412

Thank for the reply. I will look into your review of the Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk. Question:

Let it happen?
I think I get the rest, but on that point I’m lost.
Do you mean something in the neighbourhood of “try some pair and see (well ear) what you like” ? If not mind explaining?

Why is that? If they were great advice why not follow them? They have been great advice but not the one you were hoping for? If that is not to personal to answer.

1 Like
1413

The great advice was to let the journey happen instead of rushing to find something. Slow down. Solve one problem at a time. And, the consequence may be spending more money over time (I am not a big buy and sell guy. I am a big buy and return guy)

By contrast I was trying to plan my next year or two of the audio budget and journey all at once. I simply didn’t (and still don’t) have the experience to do that.

The blessing 2 dusk changed all that for me. It gave me something that was practical (very important to me), sounds great and was very high value. And it flipped my journey on its head. Now I am happy where I am and where I am going.

Those may not be the priorities for you, but until I heard it, I didn’t know how important those things were to me. I am currently not considering anything seriously that isn’t an IEM. I am looking at daps, which I originally though were a waste of money.

And I have learned a ton about my desires which I definitely would not have if I followed the “plan”.

6 Likes
1414

I am looking to a good place to start. One and done purchase is less appealing.
And I really just want guide on how I should explore the open/closed-back headphone world. It hard to explain. Like for a novice, what advice would you give if they want to explore new listening experience?

I think it’s probably the best way of describing what I want. Where I find those “plenty” headphone to explore? How can I try to follow a path if you will? I can try to read all the forum on review of headphone. But at the same time, I doubt it will help me having that amount of information.

Trying again.
The simplest way I can explain. What should I look into when searching to upgrade my gear? Like a “to do list” sort of.
Probably point A would be: understanding the vocabulary use in headphone/audio.

2 Likes
1415

It is so hard. I’m always rushing to quickly into the unknown and it’s alway bite me in the end.

Thank you, now I understand what you were saying.

6 Likes
1416

I still do it. I am just much more conscious of it. Right now my primary problem has two parts:

  1. Detach from the phone if possible
  2. Increase source quality

Doing both is hard without losing something else (like ease of use, which is a high priority)

But that is my focus. And the approach is to find the minimum money I can spend while achieving that goal.

4 Likes
1417

My biggest thought is to avoid spending your entire budget in one shot on your first set of equipment.

The Celetes (or whatever you choose) plus maybe (max) $500-$1,000 for a dac plus amp that is no-fuss with your phone (probably should mention if iPhone or Android) seems to make sense to me.

After you have listened a bit you can return and let us know how you are feeling about the sound and the people can give advice from there.

When you are starting out you don’t have a frame of reference so spending a lot of money right away is just a roll of the dice as to whether it will be what you like.

9 Likes
1418

The first and most important step is to ask yourself what you don’t like about your gear. What is it you want to improve.

I live in a place where it is impossible to audition gear and also used is non existent.

At the begining, I found that trying out 3 or 4 sets of really cheap stuff, in my case IEMs, gave me a feeling of what I like and dislike in them. I read reviews and compared them to what I heard, giving me an idea of how other people’s views were related to my own.

I already came from an audio background, so I already had an idea of what I like, what I didn’t have experience with was audiophile terms and descriptions, so that helped me on my journey.

I am by no means in the hi-tier headphone bracket but I do know what I like and I have also learned who’s opinions match my own, making reviews a lot easier to grasp.

Just my two cents.

6 Likes
1419

Experience, frames of reference, cut through the bullschiit. Those are the 3 things that will best help you decide how to proceed. You don’t know what you don’t know, right? So you gotta go find out first hand.

One of the biggest problems I see is that people take a reviewer’s words as gospel, or worse… science. It’s not. It’s just opinion.

Forums, Reddit, YouTube and the like: Useless. These will do absolutely nothing for you if you have no frame of reference for the items you’re trying to get information about. The only way to combat that is by experiencing different headphones.

I can tell you all day long how the Ultrasone Edition 10 is the best headphone ever, but does that help you? No. You haven’t heard it. Unless I directly compare how it is different to something you’ve heard, how can you possibly know if I’m giving an honest opinion or just blowing smoke?

If a reviewer cannot compare one item to another (preferably to a well known baseline item), then it’s not really a review, it’s just an advertisement. That’s why I disregard any review immediately if they can’t give me at least that.

Getting experience takes time and effort. There is no shortcut. Try everything you can get your hands on. It’s a lot more difficult to do that thanks to Covid, but, if/when things get back to normal then go to meets and events, find a local retailer that sells items you’re interested in, rentals, loaners from forums, etc. I don’t advocate using a return policy as a method to demo gear, but it is important to purchase from places that do offer a bit of a safety net.

In the mean time, here is what I would do. Take a headphone you already have (even if it’s one you hate), and go look for audiophile reviews about it. Look for reviews that match your own opinion of them. You aren’t trying to see if your opinion is valid, you’re trying to see who reviews headphones in a way that indicates you have something in common regarding preferences, hearing, and so on. Before you take advice from any review, you need to know that your opinions and preferences have something in common. If it doesn’t, chances are you might not want to consider their reviews valid for you.

(Avoid places like Cnet, Verge, Forbes, or Consumer Reports crap, because those guys couldn’t find their ears with both hands and a map.)

For example, Zeos. He’s popular. While I was trying headphones and comparing them to his reviews I discovered that he likes treble centric headphones more than I do, and he prioritizes qualities of headphones far differently than I do. He seems to be mostly concerned with tone. He is also usually pretty good at describing if something is uncomfortable.
Beyond that we have nothing in common. I think his opinions and preferences also change every time the wind blows. (He’s also probably mostly deaf, and in it for the money at this point, but… that’s a different conversation.)

Other people’s reviews I can trust because I know HOW their preferences differ from mine. @Torq for example - if he says anything about tone, dynamics or resolution of a system, 95% chance I will agree. If he says a system isn’t quite bright enough, I’m already running for the hills. If he says something is sibilant, my head already exploded. He can take more treble and air than I can. Knowing this, I can apply it to his reviews and opinions, and come out fine.

The common denominator here is: Experience and frames of reference. Everything about this hobby is complete crap until you can establish those two.

… Even then, you’ll find 60% of the stuff is still crap, 30% doesn’t pertain to you, and 10% is useful. It’s just how it is. :rofl:

Maybe a good place to start is finding a headphone that is very popular and well-reviewed, like the HD650 or Sundara, and see what you like about it. There are so many reviews about those headphones out there, finding your own preference with those might be the best way to go.

Maybe a dac/amp like the Asgard 3 w/ AK4490 card as a starting point. Or the iFi Zen dac/amp. Or JDS Element.

The headphone is the most important part though. The DAC and amp do add flavor, but not like a headphone will.

  1. Identify what you want to improve on. If your headphones fatigue you, is that from comfort or sonics? Is everything too “in your head” and you wish it had better staging or sense of space? Identify the issues. Go from there.

  2. Find suitable upgrade item. Do your research, find something that best addresses the problems. Try not to get caught up in flavor of the month gear.

  3. Rinse and repeat.

13 Likes
1420

That makes sense. I am still trying to learn about the impedance/power for the headphones/DAC.

From the specification sheet for the Focal Celestee, the impedance is 35 Ohms and the Sensitivity is 105 dB SPL / 1 mW @ 1 kHz.

I entered in this information into a headphone power calculator on digizoid. At 110 dB, it states that I need 0.33 Vrms of Voltage, 9.43 mA of Current, and 3.11 mW of Power.

According to a lab report (from hifinews) for the AudioQuest Dragonfly Cobalt, the max power output is 53 mW @ <1% THD.

Is this the how we can determine if a headphone + DAC/AMP combo works?

1 Like
1421

Question 1). Are you interested in this as a hobby, ore s a problem to be solved?

If you are interested in this as a hobby, then within the next 12 months you will most likely buy, borrow, sell, read about and learn about several different headphones, dacs, and amplifiers. The best way to start would be like all hobbies, buying the normal starter pack used from someone else who is ready to move out of phase 1, and getting to know the vocabulary, values, ethics, techniques of the hobby, and which part of it you gravitate towards.

If this is a problem to be solved, then you will need to give us pretty specific information, as you have a budget that allows for many ways to solve your problem. Then you will buy some stuff, and forget we existed, and enjoy your headphones while you read, knit, code, build legos, or whatever you actually want to do in your spare time other than learn about audio equipment and music.

After you have a tentative answer to that one, we would love to help you spend your money. Vicarious system design is a huge amount of fun for those of us who decided we wanted a hobby, not a solution.

5 Likes
1422

Yes, you are on the right track. There is also a spec called impedance but you don’t need to worry about that unless you start looking at tube amps.

Edit: I meant to say output impedance of the amp. You have already found the impedance spec for the headphone.

Manufacturers like to be ‘creative’ with specs but the Dragonfly is in the ballpark since 105db sensitivity is quite high and easy to drive.

The dongle format dac/amps are the simplest solution and would be a low cost way to start the ball rolling. They do use the phone’s battery so you have to factor that in. There are also a bunch of other dongle format dac/amps, for example Lotoo Paw S1.

A desktop dac and amp is going to give you a place to move up the line with your budget but using them with a phone can be a can of worms. Are you using iPhone or Android?

3 Likes
1423

That is good to know. Great to hear that the dongle format is a low cost solution.

I am using an Android phone (Samsung S10+). Another user, monochromios, mentioned that I may need to get an OTG cable in order to make the connection with the dongle.

1424

Hello @Allize and welcome to the forum. When you did your first post, I wasn’t quick to reply, as closed-backs are not my cup of tea - so far, at least. I haven’t tried some of the more expensive ones.

What I’d like to say is that you should read a few posts up where the estimable @ProfFalkin is talking to @Thanyth. Also see what @Dynamic and @NickZ say in response to questions from other new people. @SenyorC has great ears and does great reviews. Even better he has a lot of common sense, probably from reading Don Quixote de la Mancha and learning not to attack windmills.

The reason I decided to write was this:

The answer is No, it’s only a small but sometimes significant part of the story. Many new to audio turn to technical specifications. I know I did back in about well…1972. It’s because, as @ProfFalkin says, at first, “You don’t know what you don’t know”, and the numbers seem to give a concrete answer.

Fortunately, you landed here. This forum has a lot of thoughtful and knowledgeable people who take in interest in new users. It also has a pretty good search feature, and most importantly a policy of being nice. There is a balance needed in advice. Some forums tend to be very technical. Some are very judgemental and personality cults. That is not the case here. The fundamental principle is that things should sound good to you, no matter what others or numbers say. Some things have good numbers but will not sound good to you. Others may have poorer numbers but sound good. There are many things in how something is put together beside the numbers.

I think that the advice not to rush to spend $5k of budget is very good. Because if you are new to this, it will take a year or two for you to learn what your tastes are and how to spend that kind of money. It may be that you’d get a great recommendation and happen to pick out excellent gear that is just right for you. But you would have missed one of the most enjoyable aspects of audio, and headphones in particular - learning what to listen for, understanding what you like and why, and along the way learning how to make sense of those numbers and if they’re important or not.

Now that I’ve written all this touchy-feely fluff, I’ll tell you that I happen to have a Dragonfly Cobalt, along with a few other DACs and DAC/AMPs. It will very much power the headphones you are considering in your post. Do you have any idea what it would be like to listen at 110 DB? There are many charts, mostly showing time of exposure to sound before hearing is damaged. Here’s one from OSHA that will give you a general comparison of sound levels.
image
So, you really don’t need to worry about the power needed to drive your headphones that loudly.

That said, the Dragonfly Cobalt is very minimalist. It’s great for portability, as @monochromios said in his first reply. Eventually, you will probably want something different for streaming from your computer.

I wish you well and that you have much enjoyment as you explore. It’s OK to make mistakes and get rid of stuff you don’t like. It’s OK to keep asking questions until you are sure you understand, just ask @HeadphoneNoob, who has come a very long way from his first steps when he found us here.

9 Likes
1425

That’s right. You also may need a bit of software - usually UAPP is recommended to bypass some limitations of the Android system. Someone else will know if this is necessary on the Samsung S10+. It also will depend on your source - downloaded FLAC, or streaming. You did mention that most of your files are local in lossless, but is that the case on your phone?

4 Likes
1426

iFi audio makes a wide range of nice things in the portable audio realm. From relatively inexpensive to the opposite. They’re an option to explore if you wish.

iFi

5 Likes