Thank you for the knowledge! My Bottlehead comes this week too, Joy of living relatively close I guess. Looking forward to playing with tubes!
Hard to say what is adjustment and what is burn-in, but for me personally, Iâve perceived a fairly big difference in two pairs of cans, both of which I listened to for a bit when new then went back to them after letting music play on them for a couple of nights. One case was particularly noticeable, a pair of Beyerdynamic T5p Gen 2s. When I first heard them, I thought the highs were harsh and midbass was boomy as hell. When i went back to them, listening to the same music, the highs seemed to have mellowed (they sound beautiful now) and the midbass became tighter and punchier, while the sub-bass sounded richer. Hadnât even really heard the sub-bass much the first time round. With a pair of Fostex TH-610s, I initially thought the mids were recessed and a bit rough. I let them play unattended for a few hours a day for a week and now theyâre my favourite cans, hands-down â silky smooth and beautifully sweet â enough to make me finally box up my HD650s.
To this day, I donât know if itâs actual physical burn-in, but to go from Ewwww to Ahhhh while NOT listening to them seemed pretty significant. I was talking to the UK distributor for a bunch of big headphone brands, and he said he had always thought the idea of headphone burn-in was rubbish, but then with certain cans he could hear a huge difference. He listens to loads of cans, and he is absolutely convinced. Not that this proves anything, but there is something to this beyond our ears adjusting, I think.
The biggest difference Iâve noticed was the Focal Elex, but wasnât sure if it was just me acclimating to the sound profile. Also the M1060/C both altered after time for me, but Iâm new enough to the hobby that Iâm not sure how much is me and how much is mechanical.
The subjectivity of experience is such that just because youâve experienced it, doesnât mean it actually happened. Hence the whole debate.
By the way I donât have an opinion either way. I âburn inâ my headphones if the manual says so.
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Yep. It is really hard to say how much is real or imagined!
Personally, I did experience burn in thrice on the Eikon, HYLA CE-5 and the Xelento. It was quite an odd phenomenon but time did settle the initial harshness that was present in the mids and treble.
A recent influx of new gear, mostly headphones, has given me some rapid-fire exposure to potential âburn inâ effects across a series of units:
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Massdrop/AKG K7XX: Unpleasantly rough (especially in the bass and treble), uncouth and grainy straight from the box - to the point I did not want to listen to them. Took a solid couple of hours for things to smooth out. Iâve had these before (the original issue) and did not experience this. But after a couple of hours they sound the same as the prior set.
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Massdrop/Sennheiser HD6XX: Damn near text-book HD650 performance right from the box. The HD6XX line still sets a very high bar all a round. No noticeable changes even after letting them run for a couple of days straight.
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Massdrop/Fostex TR-X00 (Ebony): Slightly rough for the first 30 seconds or so. Had a Similar issue with the original TH-X00 (Purpleheart). Actually sounded broken for a few seconds, but within a minute was sounding lovely, and never exhibited the same âissueâ from that point on.
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Massdrop/Focal Elex: Rough bottom-end for maybe thirty seconds or so. Smoothed out rapidly. No issues since. Hadnât run into this with the Elear or Utopia.
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Focal Clear: Compressed, almost distorted, sub-bass for the first few-to-thirty seconds and then perfectly fine from that point on. Hadnât run into this with the Elear or Utopia.
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Sennheiser HD820: No noticeable change from first use on - and theyâve gotten LOTS of head-time since they arrived ⌠VERY pleasantly surprised at how good they start, and stay!
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I havenât read all the replies so am likely not saying anything new here.
With that caveat my opinion on this is that items with mechanical parts do actually change with use.
I donât know why the term âburn inâ was coined as âbeing usedâ seems simpler and is perhaps less ambiguous or polarizing.
Things with moving parts change over time. To one degree or another this can be positive or negative.
With dynamic headphone drivers I think it often initially takes a period of time for them to become more flexible so that they respond to the electric impulse more quickly and accurately, until they reach their optimum respinse/performance.
If the manufacturer has allowed for this and put them through their paces beforehand it should make no difference but I believe that could add to the cost significatly. I havenât had enough experience with very high cost headphones to hear if theyâve been made with this in mind and are only sold after being put through a break in period.
I know if I was selling cans costing in the thousands, Iâd want them sounding theyâre best right out if the ox.
I donât think the time period in which they change is as long as some might make it out to be; so perception or becoming accustomed to the sound signature is also involved to one degree or another.
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Burn in has always confounded me. I usually accept the explanations of others, but not necessarily with audio performance. I am reasonably certain some must hear the differences, but I am apparently not one of them.
My ears can discern much in terms of speed, separation of instruments, how close sounds are realistic of the instruments, notes in between the black space that separates them. There are many others too numerous to mention. Iâve never been too up on audio terminology. I prefer anyway to say in the words what I understand them.
I do know that when I change equipment , music source > software if using > wires > dac > amp >
Headphones or speakers. These what I think of as flavors and musical properties.
All this makes me think at best I have heard burn in. I know that in the many years I have enjoyed this hobby, I have learned there are many aspects of audio physics we still donât know about.
This is why I remain open to all those hear to help me understand.
I donât think itâs particularly uncommon for electro-mechanical devices to need a few minutes, to maybe a few hours, use to bed-in/loosen up. With transducers, especially those with a flexible rubber surround/suspension bound to the front of the driver, it seems reasonable that exercising them a little will loosen them up.
And, even if run in post-manufacture, such things might âtighten upâ (for want of a better phrase) when left to sit in a box, in a warehouse, for weeks or months, prior to making it to an actual customer. As long as they donât then start âtightening upâ every time theyâre not use for a little while I think thatâs fine (and probably unavoidable).
Where I start to take real issue is with claims of extended burn-in time requirements from manufacturers, particularly of solid-state gear. Itâs one thing to say your unit needs, say, 100 hours of burn-in when youâre offering a 30 day return window with no restocking fee. Itâs another entirely when you start claiming a 1,000 hour burn-in period on a 15 day approval period with a 20% restocking fee.
In essence, either make your return period long enough to EASILY accommodate your recommended burn-in period, or burn the stuff in before you ship it. Anything else is unreasonable, in my opinion.
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Some say that the magnetic fields of new speakers are randomized, and that the internal polarity aligns over time. Alternatively, the physical movement becomes smoother (e.g., cones or surrounds). I can honestly say that many products have improved over time:
NightHawk Carbons: ridiculously dark at first and took 20+ hours to sound realistic at all, and truly did brighten over time. The instructions recommend 150 hours, but I think they took even longer to stabilize.
Focal Elex: Metallic and brassy female voices for 20-30 hours, and a rough high end.
Old acoustic suspension bookshelf speakers were initially harsh, later smooth.
The tone of electric guitars changes over time too. First, new frets are sharp and kink/destroy strings fast. They sound thin and donât have much sustain. Second, magnetic pickups weaken over time and develop a âvintageâ sound. They can also can be purchased in a degraded state.
I think my most recent burn-in experience has been with the CA Cascade, it was extremely bass heavy and the bass permeated almost every aspect of it, but with the addition of the new cloth pads, and ADI-2DAC I have found it actually really enjoyable, and the bass is where it should be with a precision and speed fitting a $800 headphone. Even with more bass heavy tracks I havenât been bass cannonâd to death. It is almost like an unruly child that you think is cute but too much, that after a nap turns into a great kid to hang out with.
I bought a new pair of Focal Clears and took delivery at the end of May 2018. The sound of these, out of the box, was pretty bad. For a $1500 I would have returned these if I wasnât told that they required a long burn in period. It took over 100 hours of listening but they definitely changed over time.
Now they are worth every penny of the $1500 USD and they deserve their lofty reputation. I have experienced burn in with other headphones as well but some were less obvious than others.
Some years ago I got a pair of Stax Lambda Pros with the SRM1/MkII driver for Christmas. They were amazing out of the box but only got better over about 50 hours of listening. My Sennheiser Momentums didnât have much break in but they acquired a slightly better sound and quicker top end after 20-30 hours of listening. I also have a set of Sennheiser HD 580s that were pretty good when new and got a bit better after some use.
I have to admit that you canât call me a liker of the HD-600 series of Sennheiser cans. They all sound too polite and laid back for my tastes. They do many things well but I look for a headphone that does all things well. That is the goal.
I also have a pair of HiFi Man HE-400S headphones. They were very good out of the box and got a bit better after some hours of use and definitely got better after replacing the ear pads with the Focal pads available from HiFI Man. My Sennhieser HD-280Pros needed some time to get better but werenât to bad when new.
I still count the Sennheiser HD-280Pros as the best cheap headphone I ever used. I tried the Grado SR-60 and they were good for the money but left me waiting for something to get better. I can see how they got the reputation they have but they have limits.
I have bought more headphones over the years from many manufacturers. Most were too colored sounding for my tastes. Headphones have come a long way over the years. Twenty years ago the only manufacturer that I would consider to have really good headphones was Stax. Sennheiser made quality products but their sound ranged from dull to shrill and they steadily improved. Those two manufacturers were the best source of quality headphones up until the past 10 years.
Things have changed and headphones are a source of quality sound and you can find that sound at many price points. Its good for all listeners.
Ed
With all due respect and to be honest,Iâve always felt that âburn-inâ was over-emphasized and over-rated. I could see it with a tubed component but,otherwise,I just jump in and listen. Another maxim has been to keep your components on at all times for the best sound. That is another one I ignore since I have found that it had very minimal impact to even no impact.I do have to admit that I have not bought a lot of components/equipment and so my experience is limited.
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I canât say that Iâve personally come across âmechanical burn-inâ but I have come across psychological burn-in many times. In my personal opinion I think that burn-in is a thing thatâs left over from the earlier days of the industry.
-Paul-
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I canât say I experience it that much. Big differences for me only seem to be when I introduce new components or roll some tubes. They always seems to me to be new flavors.
So many things affect listening to music. Source of music, equipment, mood, and of course audio physics associated with it. As all other things we look on back on life and say something new is amazing. Iâm sure we will continue to learn, discover and experience.
If there is a musical " Holy Grail " it is certainly way down the road.
Now howâs that for Musical Philosophy. Imho.
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Haha, thatâs great philosophy. Bit I do agree with you. I have never used tubes. But I am sure I would fall for them big time. Thatâs why Iâm staying away for now.
-Paul-
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Yep! The tube rabbit hole. A delightfully expensive joy
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@prfallon69 and @Carmantom I can confirm tubes are awesome, but man it is a huge new rabbit hole to go down. Thankfully Iâm sticking to my stock Bottlehead crack for a couple dozen hours or so before upgrading it with the speedballâŚthen after a couple dozen more hours Iâll look into tube swappingâŚso that should keep my wallet safe (in respects of tube rolling) for a bit.
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Thanks guys, but thatâs a hole for the future.
.
-Paul-
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