I would agree with this price to performance posting. Once you get to a certain price point it no longer becomes about performance but more about presentation.
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^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^
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On one hand this is easy, as one can determine that Freddie Mercury or Billie Eilish is singing on any old PC or phone. Cheap devices are 99% accurate as DACs and amps. āFreeā products are pretty decent these daysā¦so technically diminishing returns certainly start by $100. With hard-to-drive headphones you might need to spend up to $200 to $500 for āgoodā quality.
Iāll defer to those with greater experience than myself with the ultra-expensive-esoteric stuff (e.g., @ProfFalkin above). The thread from @Torq below includes several of his lists on ābestā headphones, amps, DACs, etc. He has much more critical experience with weird pricey stuff than most people.
Also see this video from @Currawong on Youtube. He makes similar points about the THX AAA 789 versus much more expensive products.
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Quite informative and helpful for me as someone more new to headphone audio, thanks.
I started my journey with the Koss KSC75/Superlux 681 and making my way pursuing the truth (term used as intangible placeholder) while trying not to spend more than I need to.
Thatās interesting about the 1200-1999 price range as itās currently my self imposed budget for a tube amp (which includes the CSP3, ZOTL MZ2, certain Feliks offerings). Maybe leveling up a tier is best for the long term?
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Do your research though. You still got to spend the money to level up I levelled up from a magni 3 to Starlett pretty quick but I was confident in what I was getting and I canāt see myself amping up anymore re desktop amps.
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Thanks for your view and information.
Iāve actually reviewed and studied all of @Torqās top 10 lists given his experience.
Iāll revisit @Currawongās THX 789 video that you posted.
Iāve heard some people use the term āgood enough.ā I was curious if thereās a DAC or amp that is good enough for you similar to the Clear. Your response suggests in the $200 to $500 price range. Thanks.
Good question. The Clear is pretty easy to drive. Iām not unhappy with it on basic sources. It performs at the technical point where one can distinguish between the music and the room. This means it reveals the background noise in production, the breath, the echoes, and other non-intended sounds. As noted above, itās too sensitive with even the $300 - $400 THX amps.
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Thatās awesome and quite the level up. I might be similar and trying to make a similar single move rather than multiple increments. Thanks, have to do the research.
Informative, thanks for your follow up. For me, it highlights the importance of gear matching and being realistic/mindful of whatās in my chain/source and the tradeoffs between revealing/resolving/forgiving.
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As mentioned, do your research, but do it with a healthy amount of skepticism. Sooooooo many people Iāve seen will post their rave reviews about product X on a forum, and sell it 5 months later because product Z was so much better. Rinse and repeat 5 months later. They could have valid opinions, but how much did hype influence that opinion, and did they even bother to give comparisons (without which there can be no baseline, thus making the whole āreviewā moot).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going for gear that has been out for several years. Just because itās new, doesnāt mean itās better. Iāll take my old EC Blackwidow 2 over any newly released SS amp on the market in the last year, hands down, no second thoughts given.
Ok, Iāll shut up now.
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Thanks, I have my marching orders. Great points about skepticism, hype, baseline.
I am quite open to older gear and actually am attracted to vintage gear. Iām not in the market for a SS amp as Iām also quite happy with the Asgard 3, but will look more into the Blackwidow 2. If you have a moment for a view on the RSA Intruder vs Chord Mojo for a portable DAC/amp?
On a related baseline note, I wish there was a common chain(s) that the various reviewers used. It would help the common/new person more if the review was made using more accessible equipment, and also have evaluations using gear at the higher tiers. For example, using the Schiit Modi/Heresy or JDS Atom(s) for the entry level tier.
I have more of a background in liquids, where the issues you mentioned also apply. If the tasting wasnāt blind, then for me itās susceptible to being marked with an asterisk. @Resolve did a cool video recently on blind listening.
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Portable gear isnāt my gig. Sorry.
Paging @antdroid
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No prob, thanks. I saw ZMF Zach mention in an older post that the RSA Intruder was a favorite of his.
An excllent point!!
Many fine examples of thisā¦BH Crack been around like it is for years!, HD600 20+ years, lots of older stuff still works very, very well.
Look at the vintage AVR crowd searching for a great deal on an old Pioneer series AVR just for the head amp in it!!
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Yess, latest isnāt necessarily greatest!
There always is, for any product. How far youāre willing to go up on the curve to get better and better performance depends on how much youāre willing to spend. There are products at every price point that represent excellent value compared to their competitors. I think the best way to get opinions is to ask: What are some exceptional products around x dollars? Generally, as you go up the price scale, there are fewer and fewer products that offer real value for money, in terms of performance. But many, myself included, appreciate fine build quality and expensive aesthetics in our audio gear and are willing to pay more for it even if it performs no better than a more āpedestrianā offering. For people like me, pride of ownership and brand panache count. So, unlike @ProfFalkin, I would gladly pay $2500 for a beautifully hand-made to order ZMF Verite because I think itās a very reasonable price for what you get. I would not, however, pay $6000 for a Susvara because, as good as it is, itās too far up on the price/performance curve for me. We arenāt all on the same curve, so youāll have to figure out where your curve lies and whatās important to you.
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I donāt know where you got that idea. Iāve owned every ZMF headphone Zach has made, except the original blackwood planar. 2 Eikons, Atticus, Aeolus, Auteur, VO, VC x 2, Omni (Ori), Vibro, Classicsā¦
Own or have owned 10 or more $2k+ amps /dacsā¦
As discussed above, in regards to diminishing returnsā¦ as price goes up, diminishing returns becomes less of a concern as priorities are shifting.
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True that the determination is different for everyone; I was particularly responding and asking about an amp/DAC that was in the same boat as the Clear for him.
I believe we generally get what we pay for, and there are certain products that perform well above (or below) their price point (noting your point of this regressing with increased price). I agree that value and āis it worth itā have subjective/individual aspects to it. In addition to the intangible factors that you mention, there also is paying for the ZMF/Zach experience/story, wood as heirloom, investing in and trusting Zachās ears/palate, etc.
I view yours and everyoneās feedback as information for me to use when making my own evaluations/determinations (for both gear that I am able to test and especially for gear that I am not). Thanks.
I think @Superfly misread your comments about the amp price gap between $1,200 and $1,999 and applied the price bracket to headphones.
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Hmmm. I was wondering if i misspoke or was unclear. I didnāt think I was.
Doesnāt matter. Iām going back to shutting up again. Hehe
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