I actually try to remember these people on the forums I frequent and adjust to their postings accordingly. Nothing wrong with gear cycling but how many things really go from great to meh in a few months. FOTM is a thing to watch out for.
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I think @Superfly was actually referring to @genericās comment about being skeptical about moving up to ZMF.
Regarding the spend once cry once approach, it is by far the best move to make if you are sure about what you want. However, if you are unsure and are lucky enough to live in a place where used equipment is readily available (which is unfortunately not my case) then going used is a great way to find that path. You can purchase something, live with it for a while and then sell it in without a great loss if itās not your thing.
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No you were fine - it was me! My apologies. I meant to refer to genericās comment above and mistakenly attributed it to you. I need to pay more attention. Or drink more coffee.
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Yep, that was it. My bad.
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Okay. Iāll respond.
Thatās great. For me, furniture-grade electronics are very low on the list of priorities or interests.
This doesnāt have anything to do with build quality or even brand, as some premium brands do not have attractive products [errrrā¦Abyss Headphonesā¦] or they sell similar products at radically different price points. One could buy a pretty Gibson Less Paul Custom guitar for almost $7,000, or a Less Paul Studio for $1,500 that would feel, sound, and hold its value just the same.
Thereās certainly a market for polished wood, limited editions, and all of that. But one needs to understand what they are buying and why. Rare low cost items can become collectibles too. Specific eras of antiques come into fashion and go out of fashion all the time (itās often generational). Many assets have almost a random value at a given point in time.
I certainly appreciate fine furniture, fine art, and finely made machines. I buy plenty of things for quality and pride of ownership too. However, that never includes guaranteed obsolete electronicsā¦electronics must be functional and justify themselves.
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I love the information that this thread has given. Since you (@generic) also have the Clear and experienced them on these THX amps, Iāll focus on that for the moment. Granted, there could be quite a difference between the 789 and the SMSL SP200, but from what I can gather from all the reviews and comparisons, they supposedly have the same characteristics regarding detail and staging. Basing my experience on those, Iām actually wishing I had a little more separation, and definitely more width AND depth in staging. Donāt get me wrong, Iāve heard some things in some of my favorite music that I just starting laughing at because it sounded so amateurishly recorded and/or mastered; things I never heard on less capable hardware. Despite that, in general, Iām able to hear so many things in most music that I never could before, and those things make the music sound so much moreā¦ real and intimate. I mean things like movements of fingers on a microphone, rustling of clothes, and so many other micro-details that just bring the recordings to life for me. And yet, Iām left with a sense that these headphones (or maybe itās the DAC or amp?) are first and foremost not wide or deep enough in staging to give a realistic enough sense of space, and there are many times when Iām not quite able to distinguish a separation of instruments as well as I think I should be able to.
I already have determined based on my own listening in comparison to [seriously] hundreds of hours of pouring through othersā reviews of my DAC and many others that the SMSL M300 simply isnāt as capable as I want, which is why Iām going to upgrade to the Schiit Bifrost 2. I decided on that one because, as mentioned many times by so many in the last day or so, my diminishing returns caps out around the $1000 mark for a DAC.
Which brings me back to my question about amps. It had been so long since I looked at all the reviews and comparisons about amps that Iād forgotten I settled for the SP200 based on the THX amps essentially hitting way above their price, and until I just rewatched Currawongās 789 review, I forgot that while they are powerful and clear, they leave room for improvement on staging and separation. Thank you for calling that video back to my attention. And, I had forgotten that amps can make such a difference in staging and dynamics, so this has been a good eye-opener (re-opener?).
But, the reason I want to buy the ZMF Verite opens is specifically for the improvements Iām looking for. Itās generally known that the largest change anyone can make in their system is the headphones, and then itās bandied about where everything else falls in the chain. So, I think a step up to the ZMF VO will likely bring me most of the way to where I want to be, and once I have them, Iāll be able to determine where I sit.
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Though, based on what Currawong and Torq have said about Holoās DACs, amps and combo units, Iām now going to be looking very hard at those.
First, the 789 becomes edgy, nervous, and unstable with the Clear. I find this match to be okay with mild genres (e.g., vocals, acoustic), but unpleasant with anything electric, fast, or energetic. So, your sense of image and space may be shaken/broken/disturbed by the also highly sensitive THX amp. I had a vague feeling of mis-timing/lack of synchronization with the 789. The Clear is way more calm and stable on other amps. In other threads @ProfFalkin has said similar things about this specific combo.
Second, there are limits to how much staging and depth is possible with headphones. Anything can do ā3 blobsā, with most sound in the middle of oneās head and two more blobs on the left and right. When NOT USING the 789, I get a very defined and stable soundstage from the Clear. Itās actually a little forward of center too (about on the tip of my nose) versus smack dab in the middle of my head with Sennheiser HD-600s.
I suggest you read the RAAL-requisite threads on its ānear near fieldā presentation versus standard headphones. Some people on this forum indicate that itās in another realm (no personal experience). If going for the ultimateā¦ @TylersEclectic? @Torq?
Really, really test the Clear with something other than a THX ampā¦I might honestly prefer it directly from a PC, tablet, or phoneā¦I will testā¦
I have no objections to anyone buying ZMF products or anything else they enjoy. And yes, ZMF is perhaps technically superior to most anything other than the RAAL. I just personally donāt want to invest in arty wood and non-audio stuff with headphones. If ZMF ever releases a Plain Jane studio edition Iād be more interested.
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Based on some more re-reading/viewing of THX AAA reviews, Iām getting that the staging isnāt particularly good. However, the same is said of the Focal Clear by most who compare it to many other headphones. I actually have a cheap pair of Sony MDRMA100 that only cost me $50, and while they are inferior in every other way to the Clear, their soundstage is noticeably more open. As for the RAALā¦ yea, Iāve been going through all that for the last few hours and Iām already completely sold on them. But, that will have to wait for quite a while, considering the price and the fact that theyāre in no way able to contain any of the sound to the user. 
With the ZMF, I donāt care that they look fancy (much like my ugly car, but it gets done what I need and in a fun way), but rather all the reviews about them.
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Have the Clears here and several others, been thru the THX phase all sold.
The Clears are indeed a very special set of headphones, the best dynamic driver can as far as tonalityā¦wonderfuly dynamic with the right stuff they are magical.
When the Clears are on, the veil is removed for meā¦lots of other cans less and more expensive seem to always have this veil still their, even though on some its slight. Its not a warm can like many ZMF folks state about ZMFās. I have no first hand experience with them. But do have experience with Senns, Audeze, Grado, Audio Technica, HEDD, AKG, Beyers, and several othersā¦
The tone of a piano note on the Clears is to die for good IMOā¦musical instruments sould very realisticā¦a pleasure to listen withā¦
The best presentation with the Clears has been with some very, very good tube amps, not that the SS amps dont work well, they do, but there is magic going on with an amp like a ECP Audio T4 or the SS version designed for their specially āmountedā driversā¦the 3F. Lower cost tube amps like a Hagemans Tuba do very well for less that $700. Schiits Lyr 3 does well too.
Compared a Schiit Bifrost 2 with a $5495 Chord Higo TT2 and it was hard to tell the difference here across several amps and cansā¦for the price AND performance the B2 is indeed a world class winner for meā¦after this I stopped looking for dacsā¦done, over and out here.
Its a fun hobbbyā¦enjoy the ride!
Alex
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Yeah, I was just reading your posts in the Jotunheim thread, as Iām now considering a BF2/Jot stack. Iām also considering BF2/Lyrā¦
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I think it quite likely that Iāll upgrade my DAC/amp before I take the plunge for the ZMFs.
My main stack is the B2 with both the Lyr 3 and the Jotā¦I like them that muchā¦balanced from the B2 to the Jot and SE from the B2 to the Lyr 3ā¦makes is nice to compareā¦
I listen to one for a few hours and then with the other for a few hoursā¦at first its like Gosh!! this is so good, then after an few minutes my brain settles in on the sound and musicā¦then after a few hours swapping back its like Gosh this is so good!!
Ha!! Rinse and repeat.
After chasing so many amps, and going thru SS and Tube amps, NOS $$$$ etcā¦its down to pretty much these two amps and a TUBAā¦mainly for the Clears. Still have a dozen DIY SS amps that I rotate thru.
Dont chase MQA or DSD etcā¦just good ole 44.1/16Khz stuffā¦
Alex
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I wish I could audition several of the ZMFāā¦on the east coast here in NC not many around that I am aware ofā¦there is a local audio store thats been around for ever. Audio Adviceā¦and they have a nice selection of cans in houseā¦but no ZMFs.
Down to HD600, HEDD, Aeon2 Opens and Clearsā¦sold most Beyers, Grados, AKG, Audeze etc
Life is good!
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Yeah, Iām opposed to MQA (not going to go into it), and tried the DSD stuff, but it wasnāt even better; different, yeah, but not inherently better. Then again, one could argue that I should do it again, but with better DAC/amp, but Iāll skip it. 
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That setup sounds very good to me. While my budget is very (very) carefully managed I think my present goal is to move the my Lyr 3 over to sit next to the Mjƶlnir-modified STAX SRM-T1S and buy a Bifrost2 to route to each, just as you do with the Jot and B2. Then Iāll need to pick up a more modern pair of STAX, and take a photo of my new headphone battlestation for that thread.
Fixes everything.
Except . . .
It will leave a space near the night-time listening post, where I presently feed the Lyr 3 with the iFi xDSD in line out modeā¦
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I too have the Clear and am thinking of buying another ampāprobably solid state. What SS amp or amps do you think work especially well with the Clear (and avoid the problem of ātoo edgy and nervousātoo bright and/or magnifying little flawsā). Thanksā¦Lee
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Avoid the format warsā¦ good man!
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I think you hit a performance ceiling with dacs more quickly than with amps or headphones. Iām not sure there would be much jump up from a BF2 at $700 to something over 2k. Unless your chasing a particular presentation characteristic.
However, having said that I still find wildly varying opinions on them, but that seems to have more to do with the schism between those who have a definite side in objectivist vs subjectivist audio dust ups.
The next obvious dac step up for me would be something like the yggy, but at $2500 I can max out the rest of my audio chain first.
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My Yggdrasil disagrees with you.
ā¦but at $2500 I can max out the rest of my audio chain first.
Good plan.
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