Ah the wheel has been re-invented once more…and the music spins around again!! lol
Lots of common sense recommendations or observations in your notes…
Glad the ASR measurements stuff was taken for what it is…
DId you notice anything different about the Schiit MB dac and all those DS dacs??
Alex
Thanks for your detailed post and observations. You’ve put in some work in the last 5 months, props to you.
A couple questions came to mind in order to hopefully leverage your findings, no pressure to reply, however:
Are you able to elaborate more on impedance/power patterns and sweet spots (e.g. particular ratios or ranges) with respect to successful equipment matching? I’ve seen guidance from various sources on the rule of 8ths, ratio between 2.5 and 8, amplifier power output should double that of the nominal power of the transducer, amp output impedance should be between 1 and 32, etc.
Any observations or common themes regarding different DAC architectures (FPGA/delta sigma/R2R etc.) including with respect to synergies or fit with a particular sound signature or equipment, and relative performance of a certain DAC architecture at a particular price range?
I’ve narrowed it down to the DNA Starlett and ZMF Pendant. My initial $1500 budget and requirement to include a preamp output no longer apply. I’ve made contact with Donald and am next in the queue for a demo in the next couple weeks here in LA. I used to have Boston Acoustics speakers in a car stereo setup, and Donald was responsible for testing car speakers when he used to work for them in the 90s – cool coincidence.
ampandsound and The Source AV don’t have the Pendant for demo.
Thanks to those that provided their input!
Good question and one of the hardest ones I could get a salient answer from online before getting frustrated and doing my own comparisons. I’ll be honest, I don’t know how so many esteemed reviewers can say DAC x has the textural nuance this…or remarkable tonality that…I personally could not tell a significant difference which is why I stuck with the Modius vs the Ygg and saved $2300. It was so subtle to me even with the SR1a which feels like an electron microscope when it comes to changes in almost anything in the chain. The only quality that stood out is a really subtle decay to the sound that made the MB seem analog/realistic compared to the others but depending on what I listened to I felt it made things sound very slightly more cluttered but we are talking about a miniscule difference and I could recreate some of this effect with different filters on the ESS9038 based Dacs.
You kind of already answered your own question in regards to ratios. I checked out a few acoustic engineering reference textbooks and articles online that were consistent and if the amp/dac manufacturer was small enough Like musical paradise or such I would send emails with questions or in the case of Schiit/Raal people like Jason and Aleksander are very transparent online with their recommendations and just split the difference between the two. My current project is playing with interconnects in regards to material, insulation, termination, Guage and length to see how and if I can affect the sound. Have a bunch of stuff en route but will try to fit it into the “equation” too and track what works/doesn’t since I want to make my own judgement.
The difference between the Denafrips, D90 MQA(default filter), Modius and X-Sabre to me was so small that I stuck with the Modius since it had a small footprint and preferred interconnects.
Take this with a bunch of salt , I think R2R is capturing a bit of nostalgia from 80s/90s hifi and just because you put more expensive components into your architecture I didn’t find that it translated into dramatic increases in performance as mainstream manufacturers are nailing what you can do with modern ESS/AKM chips and shortcomings from the past have been mostly ironed out.
An unwanted byproduct of my experience is a general disillusionment with some of the top 20 established reviewers that unless they have some magic cyborg ears I personally think are offering eloquent sophistry how they represent differences in DACs, just my experience though, I have a limitless capacity to be wrong 
What a refreshing response…
The real differences are the headphones themselves…all else except for the source is well as long as its decently designed and implemented…has enough power to drive the load stably etc…those transducers are where its at for real discernable differences…
thats my story and I am sticking to it!!
:>)
Thanks for your follow up.
I admire your diligence, and for choosing the Modius based on what you heard with your own ears. Onward to your next project/undertaking.
I personally prefer the Modi MB over the Modius with respect to overall sound, but see how the Modius appeals more to certain ears.
I’ve also become more skeptical about certain reviewers and try to be wary of independence, objectivity, credibility, etc. Eloquent sophistry - I like that reference!
And you are right, my friend. I’ve been in this hobby since the mid-70’s and it was obvious to me decades ago that, by FAR, the most important arbiters of sound quality in playback systems are the speakers (or headphones), the acoustics of the listening environment (in the case of speakers), and the quality of the recording itself. The order can be debated.
IMO, most guys here seem to place way too much importance on DACs and amps in pursuit of sound quality, when their dollars would be far better spent on better recordings and better headphones.
I love that you reviewed all this high end DAC gear and went with the Modius. It tickles me to no end. I guess the question is whether you had the Yggy on continuously for 14 days before you did the comparison (I kid, sort of).
Agreed. Ive found that as my experience increases and my ability to listen improves, a lot of audio reviews/reviewers are kind of full of it when I go back and read or watch reviews of things I have heard. Makes me appreciate those who I think are the real deal even more.
Please keep posting the results of your experiments.
Will do! Also, I have seen people talk about Yggy and SSDs in general needing to get warmed up and I usually leave everything on continuously except tubes just for that reason, if there was a difference in the sound I didn’t hear a difference between day one vs day 15-20 but maybe I’m an uncultured swine.
The biggest factor in my exposure to high end gear other than what I buy and return is mostly from a co-worker who is a CFO where I work. He has a
3-car garage converted into a listening room with what I would estimate at least $5-700k worth of audio gear although most of that is probably his Wilson floor-standers. I’m apparently one of the only other people at work he knows that’s into hifi stuff so we have a impromptu loaner program set up where I bribe him with Beer/Mead/Scotch on a fairly regular basis and he lends me a bunch of stuff that he’s upgraded from but won’t sell off yet. Between the two ways of trying gear with C19 shutting down meet n greets I can still try a lot of gear quickly.
That’s excellent. Im very much an isolated audiophile so Im quite envious of your hifi opportunities.
I like your style of climbing on. Is your company hiring? I kid.
What’s the bottle trade value for a week with the Susvaras these days? No response required. Cheers.
I think we have started an honesty audio revolution!!!
Ha!
My VU meters are better than your VU Meters!!
:>)
Alex
By today, how could it not be finished and ironed out? Music is a deeply organic and analog. When digital hit the mainstream (CD audio, circa 1983-1985), it was marketed as going beyond the basic needs (e.g., records) to avoid known old-school weaknesses and limitations. At that time technology exceeded human potential. Over the later decades, technology has been refined but the human senses have not changed. The 16/44.1 format is pretty good.
Audio is an industry and needs sales to survive. A similar “make the sale, make the trade, make the commission” attitude is common in stock investing, real estate, auto sales, and everything else. Pump and dump. Planned obsolescence. Even bloody restaurants try to sell two-meal upsized portions to bring home and increase their profit margins (i.e., Cheesecake Factory; Olive Garden). Life in capitalism. The owners here at Headphones.com are pretty open and honest about the business realities; others not so much.
Reviewers need views/ads to make their actions profitable. There is some sophistry and also some lack-of-awareness (self-delusion) among hardcore audiophiles. However, they are harmless and enjoying themselves. As long as they don’t become autocratic or manipulative it’s all okay.
This. My main concern/ask is that actual or potential conflicts of interest are disclosed so that viewers/readers are informed/aware of whose hands are in which cookie jars when evaluating the reliability of a review.
Consider me uber-jealous. That sounds fantastic, for both ends of the deal. Mead… next on my list of things to indulge in. I mean, realistically, what sounds better than alcoholic honey? Oh, I know… imbibing mead while listening to well-recorded live recording of fantastic songs on quality gear. sigh Things to experience before dying happily.
I like where your head is at. Mead is delicious. A buddy of mine is starting up a meadery.
Need some advise on amps. Currently I’m considering either the ECP T4 or the DNA Starlett for use with the ZMF Verite and HD800 (Verite being the primary can). I have very limited experience with tube amps having owned a WA2 many years back but sold it as I find it overly smooth and warm.
I’ve heard great things about both units but have seen little comparison made between the 2 and little impressions with regards to pairing with Verite. Will either amps make the verite too warm or dark sounding? Amp will be used with RME ADI Dac.
Thanks in advance.
this has turned into a fantastic read and thread! great content everyone! Also regarding the Modius by Schiit… I haven’t heard it yet… but based on specs alone this thing is a heck of a deal! Also with all the latest improvements Schiit has done with their gear… I would have no doubt this competes with DACs way higher in price point… similar to the way the Bifrost2 does… Schiit is killing it on the value and performance gear right now!
Right off the bat, I have not heard the Starlett or T4 but have tried the Verite both open and closed with solid state, hybrid, and tube and also with combination SS amp and tube pre-amp so anything I am saying is more a generalization based off looking at the specs/config of the Starlett/T4 and comparing to my experience with the HD800, my Verite C(blackwood) wont be here for another few weeks but I had a chance to spend about 2 weeks with the Verite C and Open at the same time and could switch them back and forth.
I had read about the DNA Starlett when trying to decide on what Tube amp to try after having the Woo WA33 on loan for a bit but not looking to shell out $8000 on an amp quite yet. Here is an impressions thread of the DNA Starlett comparing both the Verite and HD800 in use that I found helpful, may help give you some insight.
And if you haven’t already read this one, the Manufacturer posts technical descriptions of the build process and design methodology.
If you have experience with tubes I think it would depend on if you want the stock sound of each or are looking to tube roll. If the later I would look at the types of tubes both use and how much of an investment it would be if you go down that road.
@perogie Has a great review of the Starlett on here if you search for it and had only positive things to say .
From an interconnect standpoint, with the T4 you will only have a balanced Connector and 2 tubes to contend with where the Starlett has both SE/Bal out and 4 tubes total. Either look to be built by passionate engineering wizards. It looks like the T4 has a return policy, not sure on the Starlett as it looks like you have to correspond through their main website for a quote/invoice.
Both look really good stock and would probably pair well with both the HD800/Verite but as they are tube there is a potential rabbit hole to go down that I would consider but on the surface both look great.
Don’t know if that helped at all but I hope it gave some breadcrumbs to follow 
Edit: Also from a soundstage/tone perspective the HD800 has a vast lateral soundstage that got even bigger with tubes and the Verite Closed has a slight echo/decay that can get magnified with tubes as well from my experience to the point of almost being distracting, the Verite open did not have this for me though and with not all tubes being the same you might get a different effect.
I’m wondering if you isolated the Emotiva to function as a power amplifier only and used a separate preamp to control the volume and manage inputs. Most headphone amplifiers are integrated and perform both pre and power amp functions. Query if sound quality is audibly different/improved by having separate power amp and preamp units. Perhaps a potential future beer/mead/scotch exploration.