Really. Something to talk to my bank account about then.
Should I thank you or curse you 
?
Yes.
Twenty charactersssssssssssss
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@darrellharwood: I agree with the excellent advice youāve received from others here. To add to it, and as a Clear owner myself, I think youāll be pleasantly surprised by the improvements afforded by a decent DAC and a better amp. When I upgraded my DAC from the one in the Fulla 2 to the Drop Airist RDAC, I noticed an immediate and striking improvement: going from your computerās DAC to a Bifrost 2 would make for an even greater improvement for you (am I right in thinking youāre using your computerās DAC right now?).
If you like the Clear out of a high-quality setup, like the Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3, you might be perfectly happy and not feel the need to upgrade your transducers for a good long while.
Irrespective of your setup, though, the Clear probably wonāt provide you with the most spacious soundstage, which is something you seem to favor. Thatās something I likewise prioritize. Still, I donāt mind the Clearās fairly small soundstage because the imaging is so good. If youāre looking for a more open, spacious sound, though, there are several good options. The HD 800(S) is one, although itās a fussy headphone when it comes to amp pairings (I have the HD 800). The Arya is another, and @lost33 has got me intrigued by the HEDDphone, which is yet another option for you. Thereās also the Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000, which I havenāt heard but that might appeal, given what Iāve read about it (itās bright, though, like the HD 800(S), so beware).
Just to stir things up a bit: the Raal SR1a can seem to be impossibly expensive, given the need for a power amp or the dedicated Jot R amp. I had the pleasure of listening to the SR1a at CanJam (with the Jot R and Bifrost 2) and it really does have an unbelievably wide and open soundstage compared to other headphones; the speed and resolution are likewise astonishing. But hereās the thing: you can find the SR1a going for less than $3,000 used now. (Youād still need a power amp, though, of course). Iāve seen them going for $2,700 recently. I even saw one in this price range being sold with a Jot R. Thatās more or less the same price as the VĆ©ritĆ©ā¦
From a couple of auditions at CanJam, I can say that the VĆ©ritĆ© provides a reasonably open soundstageāone thatās wider and more spacious than the Clear, I think, although you might like to verify this with others (@TylersEclectic could tell you, I think). But do note that the VĆ©ritĆ©ās sound signature is quite different from the Clear. The VĆ©ritĆ©, then, wouldnāt be a direct upgrade to the Clear necessarily. Itās a superior headphone, to be sure, but itās a darker and faster one whose presentation might be worth auditioning first before buying.
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Stay away from the ultra spec measuring stuff IMO (THX, Hersey 3ā¦)
Budget would be an Schitt Magni 3 or 3+ (the older one can be had for less than $99, Schiit B stock and closeout deals area).
Listening to your not wanting an edgy amp etcā¦Other wise the Asgard 3 would be nice.
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If you donāt mind me asking, which of your headphonesāHD 600, HEDD, Aeon2 Opens and Clearsādo you use with either your Jot or Lyr 3? Do any of them pair well with both amps?!
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No, Iām not using my PCs DAC, but rather have an SMSL M300 with SP200 for amp. While I know the HD800 is the stage king, itās also been described as unnaturally large, which I donāt want, but also the tonality and bass issues are near impossible to overcome. I was actually set on getting an Arya, until I learned more about the overly large presentation of everything (in comparison to realistic size) due to the giant driver size.
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I use the HEDDS with both, but prefer the Jot with the HEDDSā¦seems just a tad cleaner to meā¦
The HD 600ās I use mainly with the Bottlehead Crackā¦its the magical euphonic sound that Senn and BH ahve togetherā¦better than on either of the Schiitsā¦IMO. personal pref. the only other amp that really came close to the HD600 and Crack was the Schiit Vahalla 2. An excelletnt senn parining for most any senn high impedacne headphone.
The Aeon 2 balanced via the Jot is very, very good. But the best sound from the Aeon 2 opens for me is the lowly old Schiit Magni 3ā¦for less than $99ā¦amazingly good. Makes the Aeon2ās sparkle.
The Focal Clears are my favorite with the Lyr 3 and lesser with the Jot. Low gainā¦superb. The best I ahve ever heard the Clears on is the ECP audio T4 and then the Hagerman Tuba, and then Schit Lyr 3, then the Jot.
Alex
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In this case, the other headphones I mentioned, and especially the Raal SR1a, probably arenāt the right options for you, either.
I get the criticisms of the overly wide soundstage for the HD 800. I suspect this has much to do with genre of music: the HD 800 and the SR1a are wonderful for orchestral music. If your preferences lie in other genres beyond classical music, Iād suggest sticking with the Clear or the VĆ©ritĆ©. Good luck in your quest!
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Thank you, Alex, this is all great information; I suspect itāll be invaluable to a lot of readers. Itās certainly helpful to me!
I had the same experience as you, albeit with the LCD2-C in place of the Aeon 2 - I love this headphone out of the Magni 3!
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I personally donāt want or expect headphones to contribute to stage width. Iām in the neutral camp (i.e., most often use HD-600s and Clears). This issue is that some music uses intentional processing effects to widen the stage too ā consider early Beach Boys stereo mixes; anything thatās been spatialized or turned into 2-channel surround, etc.
If the headphones widen the stage then they are adding subtle echos or otherwise modifying the music in a way that cannot be undone when itās unwanted. With wide stage headphones I think of how a kids tin-can and string telephone sounds, and before long want to go back to neutral devices.
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Isnt amazing how such a low cost amp like the original Magni 3 would work so well as an amp with fairly high end cans like the LCD2ās and even the Aeon 2āsā¦
Goest to show we sometimes get lost and overlook these little sonic gems!!
:>)
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I agree, I find my HD 800 to be too wide for rock and electronic music while my Clear are a bit too narrow for classical music, which I suspect hasnāt been subjected to the kinds of mixing and production effects you mention. (The one, fun exception to this pattern is the glorious, expansive, room-filling blast of distorted electric guitar in the middle of Mogwaiās āNew Paths To Helicon, Pt Iā on the Government Commissions: BBC Sessions CD).
I want to take care here to make sure this comes across as a genuine question (and not as a challenge - to be clear, that is not my intent): is it the case that the HD 800, for instance, actively does something to the presentation that artificially widens the stage (if āactivelyā is the right word)? Does it diffuse the sound too much? Or is it that this headphone does less to constrain the soundstage as compared to other headphones, likes the Clear or the HD 600? I ask as a relative newcomer to the hobby, one who is unfortunately (and embarrassingly) ignorant of the physics of sound (but wants to learn).
I also ask this because the Raal Requisite SR1a seems to represent an entirely (or very) different approach to reproducing soundstage. When I heard it, the sound was much more like the presentation offered by speakers, but this presentation was nonetheless quite disconcerting, perhaps because I had the sound of headphones in mind when I tried the SR1a at CanJam.
Sorry, I realize weāre getting off-topic from ampsā¦
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Yes, absolutely! I just picked up the Campfire Andromeda 2020 and Iām trying it out of a bunch of sources. One of my favorites so far is the good old Fulla 2! Itās got a low output impedance, which makes for a nice, bassy presentation with rock music, and it really makes the Andros much more punchy and dynamic than my AK Jr DAP. Youāve gotta be careful with the volume pot, though!
My poor Fulla 2 had been sitting neglected for ages; Iād refrained from selling it only because Iād not get much for it, and I figured I might find a use for it one dayā¦ and now I have! Itās another little gem!
I dont think the moderators will mind but agree this is getting off topic from amps. So they might move it to a more appropriate area.
That said. The soundstage is definitely affected by the physical layout of the headphone, and driver mechanics. The HD 800ās are a great example of how large and the ear cavity and distance from the ear has a pronounced affect on the soundstange. No magic just physical design etc.
The HEDDS have large earpads and its partially to get the drivers a good distance from your ears to help widen and make the soundstage wider and more realisticā¦its why they IMO have superior imaging qualitiesā¦
Alex
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Iāll be honest here, possibly setting some against me: stage is most important to me because of gaming. Yeah, itās cool for music and I definitely enjoy more open-sounding music, butā¦ and before anyone says anything about it being up to the audio processing of the game engine, while thatās true to a degree, the aforementioned cheap Sony I have and some crappy gaming headsets Iāve used make staging much more immersive. However, I can see what you mean about being unable to remove soundstage where itās inherently present in a set of headphones, if itās unwanted at times.
I think itās quite possible that if I upgrade my DAC and amp, it will mostly solve the closed-in sense that Iām currently getting.
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The Clear is simply clear. It reproduces whatās in the source and adds little else. If I was still heavily gaming I might buy a dedicated set of headphones (AKG?) for quasi spatialization and leave the Clear alone.
Regarding the issues with the Clear THX AAA 789 pairing, I just tried my test playlist with the following Clear sources:
Loser (4th Place): THX AAA 789 ā The main issue is that it grabs the attack phase of every note and exaggerates the intended volume. Even very clean and mild vocals (e.g., Tori Amos, Norah Jones, Paul Simon) become harsh and sharp. With EDM or electric guitar music the exaggerated notes add up to shrill peaks and painful whines. As the initial point of each note becomes louder, this also throws off the natural timing of many musical phrases (e.g., too loud at the start rather than a smooth ramp-up). Timing issues do weaken and blur the soundstage.
3rd Place: iPad Mini 4th Generation (released several years ago) ā Has a mild sandpaper roughness that destroys high-range details; slight grayness to everything. This saps the nuances from Clear. In addition, the noise turns into glare with female voices and brass instruments (i.e., it recreates the negative characteristics of the Focal Elex). Still, itās better than the 789.
2nd Place: iPod Touch 6th Generation (most recent) ā Quite respectable with no major flaws. Clean and black with good high end details. Itās underpowered for bass and dynamics, but I could use it without major complaint.
Winner: Loxjie P20 with replacement 6N3-E triple mica tubes and an upgraded power supply. Despite its high output impedance (and theoretical bass bloat with the Clear) the bass definition is about the same as the rest. As a desktop unit it has more oomph than the Apple devices (bass is roughly equal to the 789). Triple mica tubes retain the details and slightly warm the delivery. Normal dynamics; not piercing at all.
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Very interesting! Thanks for the comparison on a few devices.
Last night, I did little testā¦ I tend to forget that I have an EQ on, though Peace/Equalizer app. I use some presets I downloaded that attempt to bring the Clear to the 2018 Harmon target. I tend to prefer the tonality, but didnāt mess with it much myself. Anyways, Iāve been listening to them with that for some long that I forgot it was on. So, I turned off the EQ and tested, and it opened up the staging someā¦ I tried figuring out which frequency it was, but was getting tipsy; will try again probably tonight, while sober. But most important, everything you have been saying about the harshness and sterility were immediately apparent, and I absolutely understand why people prefer different amps. 
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Great comparisons. I agree that tha iPod Touch 6gen is surprisingly good. I use it often as just a chill out setup with some iemās.
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Gosh, I mucked with EQ many times and after it all said the heck with itā¦everytime a different song comes on its all mucked up againā¦
The Clears are one headphone to me that doesnt need any eqāing, if done poorly the wonderful tonality willbe mucked up and thats what these cans are really great atā¦musicality, toneā¦accuracy etc IMO.
The Hedds also really dont need any eqāingā¦IMO several reviews also state thisā¦
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This may be a long and subjective post , just read through the thread and you are asking a few similar questions to what I have been trying to figure out the last 4-5 months in regards to synergy and what direction to approach your gear chain to get the desired affect. Have had the chance to try a few DAC/AMP/HP combinations, here is where I started from as my lowest cost combo to what I have as of this morning. Will try to share some of what I had learned in the process in regards to where amps sit in my gear chains.
5 mo. ago:
~$125 total (Apple USB-C Dongle $8) -> (Monoprice Liquid Spark $80) -> (MP HR5-C $40)
This morning:
~$5400 total (Schiit Modius Balanced DAC $200) ->( Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2 Balanced Tube Preamp w/Mundorf MCAP Superme Gold Silver Oil Capacitor upgrade $900) -> (Schiit Jotunheim R $800) -> (RAAL SR1a($3500)
As far as headphones Iāve played around with a min 100+ hours , have tried the HEDDphone One, Abyss 1266 TC, Focal Stellia, Utopia, Hifiman Susvara, Sennheiser HD700, HD800s, HD820 in a combination of Music, PC gaming and General use/productivity . Have some ZMF Verite Closed(Blackwood) on the way in the next few weeks to function as a closed counterpart to the RAAL.
For amps, have had a chance to use the Monoprice Liquid Platinum(hybrid ss/tube), Woo Audio WA33(tube), Headamp GSX-mini(ss), THX 887(ss), MP Liquid Spark(ss), Emotiva Bas-X 100(ss) and Jotunheim R, Chord Hugo 2 TT, Chord Mojo, will get the RAAL HSA-1 to use with the ZMF/SR1a when they are back in stock eventually.
Dacs have included so far, Apple Dongle, Onkyo TX-RZ730 Receiver(AKM4457), Onboard PC audio Z390 Aorus Master(ESS9018) , SMSL M500(ESS9038), Matrix Audio X-SABRE Pro(ESS9038PRO), Topping D90 MQA(AKM4499), Schiit Yggdrasil (AD5791BRUZ), Okto stereo8(ESS9038PRO) , Denafrips Ares ii R2R(found one through Amazon marketplace and was able to return it, otherwise doesnāt have return option through mfr,) and Chord Qutest, Hugo 2 TT and Mojo.
Just wanted to show what I have been using in different combinations in pursuit of a Multi-function desk setup that would work for Music/Gaming/Productivity with one dedicated Open-back and Closed-back for Isolation when needed.
My biggest recommendation when it comes to AMP/DAC choosing has been to have a defined destination on your desired sound profile to work towards before throwing your credit card at the screen and from what direction do you want to get that specific sound, ābetterā is relative. I found that when I started the most recent buying/return spree everything was about measurements, THD %0.00045 vs THD %0.00092 being paramount and reading audiosciencereview.com until my eyes bled with detail/accuracy/transparency being the end goal and I feel it was misguided. I have been able to hear almost all of what I consider TOTL headphones and Under $4000 DAC & Amps on my wishlist and realize that what I like and what makes me happy is different from what a computer considers a true representation of audio fidelity.
As an example, The THX 887 was great from a clinical standpoint in regards to lack of distortion but no matter what I tried with it, even the Focal Stellia sounded cold/analytical and almost flat to the point that although I could hear Louis Armstrongās clothes shuffling for the first time in a song I have heard 1000 times it didnāt inherently make it a pleasurable experience and the $8 apple dongle sounded ābetterā with the Focal Stellia to me even without the clothes shuffling.
DAC/AMP interaction:
Of all the DACs I tried and the reason I stayed with the $200 Modius is that I heard maybe a 10% difference between the $8 and $2500 DACs and unless a specific filter was altering the sound, it felt like the best thing a DAC could do was simply not get in the way of the music and you can use the Headphone and EQ primarily with AMP Pre-amp secondarily to get the desired sound signature. With most manufacturers using the 9038/4493/4490/4499 the performance was almost indistinguishable and output impedance/source material production played a bigger part than how the chip affected the sound with such low comparable distortion.
AMPS:
Impedance/Power, I found patterns immediately when it came to how each headphone had a sweet-spot for DAC output voltage, amp/pre-amp input/output Impedance and headphone impedance with the best performance coming from complimentary pairings that played to each otherās strengths making a single efficient machine. The Focal Stellia and Hifiman Susvara were really fun to play with this concept as they are on the opposite ends of the efficiency spectrum, within a few pairings I could anticipate how they would respond respectively to a given amp and get a feel about getting the potential of a specific headphone. The emotiva Bas-X had a removable jumper that would effectively put the power going from itās speaker terminals out through the headphone jack to drive inefficient planars like the Susvara and it ended up sounding amazing since the distortion was low and the right amount of power was available and could be delivered quickly, that was a $250 amp with $6000 headphones and was an impressive example of performance/cost if the engineering was applied correctly and was one of many examples of finding that just because the online community says AMP A, DAC B and Headphone C are all the best of what they do, depending on how they are connected and what is being played through them they might be counter intuitive to getting the sound you personally want.
Final thoughts:
Without going on too much farther and keeping this somewhat coherent I would say that I developed a common priority system from my own experience that I can see used across this site. For DACs, I personally recommend the lowest cost DAC with low distortion and the right interconnects/features to integrate into your setup.
For amps, I would pick something that gets the power/impedance matched to a specific headphone that will get the most use and decide if you want to EQ from the source or through how the amp/pre-amp colors the sound in a way that compliments your headphones.
In regards to headphones, I really like the RAAL/Jot R being neutral since it is really easy to EQ my source through software like Roon/Equalizer APO or hardware side by my Schiit Loki passive EQ where on the contrary if my amp/source colors the sound too much Iām kind of stuck with only a few degrees wiggle room from a given starting point if the headphone has a very defined signature. Each headphone I tried had pretty clear limitations on how far you could push the sound signature in a given direction before you started to lose sound quality.
With that being said, and this might seem obvious, but I would really try to define your favorite sound signature that makes up as much of the majority of what you listen to, find a headphone manufacturer that uses the same signature and find the right level of investment to work up their product hierarchy to get that sound in itās best representation but donāt box yourself into a corner if you want it to fulfill multiple roles. My opinion, the amp /dac simply should bring out the good characteristics of your favorite headphone without adding too much of itās own signature as this will eventually turn into a loss of quality.
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