Best headphones. Hands down. Feel free to check out my quick comparison with the 1266: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-15974883
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For a planar headphone the timbre is pretty darn good. The only two headphones at canjam that surpass it in the timbre category was He-1 and Sr1a. Imo.
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Dekoni came out with some pads for the Susvara. I just received a pair of Elite Velours today.
Below is what I originally wrote on the Susvara thread on Head-Fi, but wanted to also share on here.
Finally got my Elite Velour pads today. Iâll refer to them as âEVâ to make it easier on me.
I believe someone asked for pictures of the attachment rings:
They seem to be relatively sturdy, at least more so than the ones on stock pads.
Preface:
To be honest, I donât use the stock pads since I donât like how they sound with them. Iâve been using a sort of Beyerdynamic pad that I donât remember where I got it from - all I remember is that they came with an old headphone I bought. I pulled out the stock pads yesterday and had a listen to give a better comparison between those and the Dekoniâs. Pictures of the Beyer pads as a reference:
Yeah⌠Theyâre gross and beat-up. I cleaned them up with a lint fan sucking thingie but got lazy. If I knew where to get another pair of these pads, I wouldâve done that.
First impressions:
Back to the Dekoni pads, simply put, they sound almost exactly like the Beyerdynamic pads that I use. I always thought the midrange sounded off with the stock pads since thereâs a large dip around 1.5 kHz and then the response rising back up around 3-4 kHz. The Dekoni EV is more linear and IMO tonally correct in the midrange, and so I think voices and guitars sound more natural. As for the bass, Iâm not 100% final on my thoughts but I think theyâre a tad warmer or if anything is thicker in its texture though not in a boomy sort of way - could just be because the Dekoni EV uses a thicker foam with no perforations along the inside of the earpads (unlike the stock pads) and so the bass energy isnât absorbed into the pads (or at the very least, not as much). I think the treble is a tiny bit less âspicy.â
Iâve made some measurements made on my MiniDSP EARS (HPN compensation). No smoothing was applied. Usual disclaimer: The MiniDSP EARS is not an industry standard tool. Itâs not particularly accurate in the treble and thereâs noticeable artifacts seen on almost all headphones Iâve measured around 3-5 kHz with weird dips and peaks. These should only be compared to other MiniDSP EARS measurements.
Note: There is an imbalance with my Susvara in the treble. I donât really hear it in listening but itâs been repeatable with different pads and re-seatings.
A comparison with the stock pads:
Left side matched at 40Hz to better showcase the differences in the midrange and treble.
Right side matched at 40Hz to better showcase the differences in the midrange and treble.
For fun, hereâs how the Dekoni EV compares to the old Beyer pads Iâve been using:
Overall, Iâm very happy with these pads. I was worried what I would do when my Beyer pads eventually gave out completely but these EVâs seem to be just what I wanted.
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I finally saved up enough pennies to buy the Utopia, however, I have since started looking into the Susvara.
I understand we are talking about two different driver types here. However, there is still that overall enjoyment, technical ability, and tonality factor of both headphones.Whats another 1500 when you saved 4 already.
Detail retrieval and stage, I would assume is better on the Susvara?
Is the Susvara in a whole different league?
I donât think the Susvara are any more detailed than the Utopia.
Stage definitely favors the Susvara, significantly, but theyâre hardly the best at that.
But then dynamics favor the Utopia.
Donât buy without hearing both, with whatever it is youâre going to have to drive them with.
As for saving $4,000, and adding another $1,500 ⌠if you get your Utopia or Susvara that way, youâre âdoing it wrongâ.
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I donât understand the last part. I think you mean donât be an idiot with your money? Or if you are buying based on price, you are doing it wrong. Basically I started looking into flagships, the most expensive set I own are the ZMF Verities and VCs. I also have the Focal Setlliaâs. All three are awesome headphones. However, it seems most flagships have some type of tradeoff, they do technical performance well at the cost of tonality, dynamics, or sound unnatural. Thatâs why the V opens or the VCâs are loved so much, they seem to do everything well.
I do agree, it would be nice to listen to both. Unfortunately, I donât think there are any Hifi brick stores around MA, I believe that the Utopia would be more in my wheelhouse because I like dynamic drivers more typically. However, it seems the Susvara has hardly any tradeoffs, aside from impact and timbre. The Utopia lacks stage and sounds a bit boring from what I have read and heard.
Also, it seems the Susvara does speratrion and imaging better, as you mentioned with the stage.
I mean, if youâre paying MSRP for flagship headphones, youâve missed the plot. Donât do the âAdd to Cartâ and checkout routine. Call your prospective dealer (or better yet, you have already developed a proper relationship with them) and see what theyâre willing to do on price.
MSRP, for traditional distributor/dealer supplied product, includes LOTS of margin. In the case of dealers, some of that is to facilitate their ability to provide auditions and demonstrations and actually do some WORK to earn the sale.
I donât know about you, but I am not paying a 25-40% margin for someone to take an order and drop-ship a product. Fair enough if theyâre providing loaners, in-home-trials, a super generous return policy, or proper audition/demo setups, otherwise ⌠theyâll almost always be able to do you a better price.
It has a larger stage than the Utopia (as do MOST headphones). Imaging ⌠thatâs a wash ⌠Utopia is more precise, Susvara is wider. Separation? Utopia takes that.
At least for me, in my system.
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Thank you very much, this has been very helpful.
I will give the guys over at headphones.com a ring, maybe they have an open box or can work with me on pricing.
Thanks again, much appreciated.
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If nothing else, they have an amazing return policy ⌠makes trying headphones, properly, risk free.
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Itâs really not that simple the Susvara is REALLY picky about whatâs driving it. You really do want to hear it on what you intend to drive it with.
It really only needs a couple of watts to get loud, but none of me lower priced amps really do it justice.
Itâs party trick is low volume dynamics IMO. By which I mean the ability to still sound dynamic in quiet passages, itâs reminiscent of Electrostatics in this regard to me.
I use mine predominantly with an original Cavali Liquid Gold, but for example the DNA Stratus ~2.8W doesnât do them justice.
Well, I have the THX 887, The Liquid Platinum, and the Schiit Magnius, which all have about 6Wâs of power into 32Ohm load.
That should be more than enough to drive these cans, right?
Itâs not anything insane like a HE6 where I need a massive headphone amp right?
Itâs really not just about power, Out of interest I ran the Susvara on an Monoprice LP, a Whammy and an original Jotenheim, none were very good with the Susvara IMO.
You just lose the âmagicâ, much of the low volume dynamics are lost.
As I said given the cost Iâd find a way to audition them on the source chains your intending to use.
I just purchased a WA33 as a tube option for mine.
Many people do use speaker amps to power them and claim they offer the best sound (much like the HE6) though they arenât as demanding as the HE6.
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The sensitivity of the headphone is really low. HE6 low.
You canât just look at the impedance of a headphone to determine how hard it is to drive. (Clicky here)
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I mean that makes sense on the Monoprice LP, itâs not the cleanest of AMPâs, clean for a pre-staged tube amp however, at least as far has tupe amps go its one of the better ones.
The best AMPs on the market are the THX amps and the Topping L30, A50s, and A90. They have the highest SINAD number, very clean, no audible distortion. They have the best technical performance, down side is people say they sound dead, thatâs probably because you are hearing no coloration from the amp, just the source.
I noticed with my HD800s you can most certainly hear really poor amps with a lot of distortion vs a very clean amp, like the RME-ADI2 DAC FS, Gehselli Arch Pro 2.5, A50s, and my THX Amp all sound wonderful vs some of my cheap amps and expensive âgoodâ amps I have owned.
Lets agree to disagree on that.
They might be the best measuring amps on the market, but I frankly wouldnât want to own any of them.
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I absolutely agree. They measure well and sound like crap.
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If thatâs what youâre going to use ⌠forget the Utopia and the Susvara.
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Why, honest question?
If you are getting something thatâs clean and only reproducing the source of the music, whatâs the problem?
Why would you want to toss heavy distortion into the mix like using a tube, which you can make a tube amp that sounds good but the reason you are getting an evaluated bass or cooled treble is due to the distortion in the single, which you can hear at least I have noticed when switching from a tube amp to a solid state amp.
I do agree there are tube amps that sound good, just not clean. Its all preference at the end of the day.
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Itâs ok to like those amps and Iâm happy you enjoy them or similar creatures but to state they are the best amps⌠
. Well, Iâm sticking with my distorted tube amp.
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What does clean mean to you in this context? To a lot of us clean may mean sterile or that an amp has good clarity with dark background. When I hear the word clean I donât assume necessarily a natural sound. Just curious.
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