Impedance vs loud sound

Please recommend headphones with parameters:
-home listening
-around the ears
-open or closed design
-classical/new age/jazz (more quiet than loud)
-neutral sound
-do not need headphone amplifier
-no bluetooth/wifi, but can be an option
-as light as possible - comfort for extended use
-price under 400usd

I suppose lower headphone impedance means more distortion at higher volume and vice versa, higher impedance is needed for louder music, which I don’t listen to anyway.

I generally observe that with age (61) the perception of higher frequencies is lost and the perceived sound is flat, but that’s another topic.

Could something from AudioTechnica or Sennheiser, or a similar midrange be a good fit?
Can anyone comment on this? Also on the impedance?

Thanks for the advice and recommendations
Peter

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Howdy Peter. Impedance is a complex topic. For starters, it would help to know what your source is, and its output impedance if you know.

Bridging connections are usually preferred in audio. In simple terms, this means the load has a higher input impedance than the source device’s output impedance. This is generally true for headphones as well, because higher input impedance is thought to improve electrical damping of the headphone’s drivers.

There isn’t always a precise relationship between a headphone’s input impedance and its loudness. It depends alot on the headphone’s design. Lower impedance headphones can use more current than higher impedance headphones though. And that will often translate to greater loudness on the lower impedance headphone. There are exceptions to this though.

To get a better idea of a headphone’s loudness or “drivability” with different sources, you also need to look at its signal voltage sensitivity (dB/V) and its power efficiency (dB/mW).

Greater loudness isn’t always an advantage btw. If you’re using a noisy amp, or one with too much gain for your type of headphone, then you may hear more noise from your source. And not have as good volume control. And could even potentially damage the headphones or possibly the amp.

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primary signal source is Yamaha MCR-N670D (A-670+CD-NT670D)

Quite simila :slightly_smiling_face:r to my needs so I will be following. Thanks for the post. :slightly_smiling_face:

Looks like a nice little system. According to the overview, the system has Bluetooth output, so you can use it with wireless Bluetooth headphones, if you want. Which would make questions of impedance irrelevant.

If you want to use it with wired headphones, the headphone jack is rated at 500 mV and 24 ohms output impedance in the manual. 24 ohms is on the higher side, but that’s fairly typical for a receiver. (Portable devices can be in the sub-ohm range.) For good damping, you’ll want wired headphones with an input impedance higher than 24 ohms. Preferably several times higher. 100 ohms to 300 ohms would probably be a good range to consider. If you don’t mind a bit of audible distortion, then you could maybe get away with something a bit lower. YMMV on that.

You will probably not need a headphone with very high sensitivity or efficiency, because the greater loudness may actually work against you in this type of setup, from a sound quality perspective. Moderate to somewhat lower sensitivity headphones should work ok. And will likely give you better noise performance and volume control than louder, more efficient headphones. I would not try to use most IEMs with this, for example. And easier to drive over-ear headphones like the popular AKG K371 might also be too loud and/or low in impedance for best results with this setup.

For reference, the K371 is rated by AKG at 32 ohms impedance and 114 dB/V SPL voltage sensitivity. I have seen real world measurements that are a bit higher though, around 35 ohms and 120 dB/V, give or take. The above figures also put power efficiency on the K371 somewhere around 100-105 dB/mW.

The only thing that comes to mind that comes close to fitting most of that list is the Meze 105 AER.

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I would check out the Sony MDR-MV1 as I think it fits most of your requirements (Low impedance 24 ohms and super light at 7.9oz (224G).
try to locate this videa -www . youtube . com/watch?v=eVHDhyJzFQo
https://electronics.sony.com/audio/headphones/all-headphones/p/mdrmv1

It may not be 100% neutral from a standard Sennheiser HD600 frequency response but I don’t find my MDR-MV1 needing EQ. Here is the Squiq.link of these two (Listener's 5128 Database).

Here is how the AI responded to your post and I asked after I had already drafted my response above:
Your listening preferences and criteria are well thought out, and you’ve already touched on a few important concepts. Based on your needs—home use, comfort, neutral tuning, no need for an amp, and sensitivity to higher-frequency loss—I think you’re on the right track looking at models from Audio-Technica and Sennheiser. You’ve also brought up an excellent question about impedance, so let me unpack that a bit first.

:electric_plug: Impedance Clarified:

You’re right in noting that lower impedance headphones (e.g., 32Ω) are easier to drive and don’t require a dedicated amplifier. That’s great for your setup since you won’t be using a headphone amp. However, lower impedance doesn’t necessarily mean more distortion at higher volume — it can mean they draw more current from weak sources (like a phone or tablet), and if the source struggles, distortion could result. For home listening at moderate volumes, this isn’t typically a problem.

Higher impedance (e.g., 250Ω or 600Ω) headphones can scale better with powerful amps but aren’t ideal for your intended use.


:headphone: Headphones That Fit Your Needs:

Here are a few strong options under $400 that are lightweight, comfortable, neutral-ish, and don’t require amplification:

:white_check_mark: Sony MDR-MV1

  • Open-back, very neutral with excellent instrument separation
  • Very comfortable and lightweight
  • 24Ω impedance – easy to drive, no amp needed
  • Fantastic for classical and acoustic music
  • May seem slightly analytical, but in a good way for detail retrieval
  • Price: ~$399

:white_check_mark: Sennheiser HD 560S

  • Open-back, smooth and neutral-bright signature
  • 120Ω impedance, but surprisingly easy to drive from modern devices
  • Lightweight and very comfortable
  • Good clarity in upper mids—can help if you’re noticing some high-frequency hearing loss
  • Price: ~$200

:white_check_mark: Audio-Technica ATH-R70x

  • Open-back, detailed and airy with a more midrange-focused tone
  • 470Ω impedance – technically higher, but fairly efficient (still benefits from a bit more power though)
  • Very lightweight due to carbon composite build and winged design
  • Slightly warm and smooth, not fatiguing
  • Price: ~$350

:white_check_mark: Meze 99 Classics (Closed-back wildcard)

  • Warmer and richer tuning—more “musical” than analytical
  • 32Ω impedance, very easy to drive
  • Very light and extremely comfortable
  • Might not be as neutral as others but great for relaxing listening
  • Price: ~$309

:ear: A Note on Age-Related Hearing

You’re absolutely right that with age, some higher-frequency sensitivity naturally declines. So a headphone with good clarity and detail in the treble without being harsh is key. Avoid models that are overly dark or bass-heavy. Look for ones with a clean upper midrange and treble extension—like the MV1 or HD 560S.


Good luck.
Tim

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Howdy Tim.

There is debate about the importance of electrical damping in headphones. Some audiophiles are less sensitive to distortion, and more focused on volume. And are willing to tolerate some audible distortion that might result from using lower damp factors.

A headphone in the 32 ohm range would generally be too low though imo for a 24 ohm source. Google AI thinks so too. Here’s what it said when I asked what is the best damping factor for a headphone…

“For most headphones, a damping factor between 10 and 20 is considered ideal, according to Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum. Some sources suggest a damping factor of 8 or more is a good general rule, according to Reddit. Damping factor is the ratio of a headphone’s impedance to the amplifier’s output impedance. It essentially dictates how quickly a headphone’s driver stops moving after a signal is cut off.”

This is the same general rule of thumb I use. And it’s why I suggest a headphone impedance that’s a bit higher, more in the 100 to 300 ohm range (for a source in the 24 ohm range) to help minimize the potential for audible distortion from the source. (I’m actually bein a little overgenerous on the lower side because a 100 ohm headphone would only have a damp factor of about 4.17.)

I think there are some good options available in that range, even if you’re on a budget. I’ll have to look around a bit to see what is a good fit though. Since I started to use an amp in the one ohm range, I haven’t paid as close attention to that spec as in the past. Because even very low impedance headphones in the teens would have sufficient damping in my setup.

If you want to follow AI’s suggestion of damp factor between 8 and 20, you’d need a headphone in the 192 to 480 ohm range, which limits the options a bit. I’m not sure that’s really necessary though. One has to consider all the angles on this stuff, including the price, selection, sound quality, comfort, and other factors. And make some compromises where necessary.

There are other factors to consider with impedance as well, like the effects it can have on some headphones’ frequency response.

The higher the output impedance of your amp or audio source, the more likely it is to interact in some way with the variations in your headphone’s impedance curve, to affect its frequency response. Some headphone users will actually use this to their advantage to get a little more warmth or a bass boost on their dynamic driver headphones, which will sometimes have a spike in their impedance somewhere in the lower frequencies.

Many of the Sennheisers have this type of rise in impedance in the lower frequencies. Here is the impedance curve of the new HD550, as one example…

And also the impedance responses of the 6 series Sennheisers and the newer HD 490 Pro…

Other dynamic headphones may have a different type of impedance curve that can also affect the treble frequencies, while most planar magnetic headphones tend to have a more flat/linear impedance response, which is less susceptible to frequency response changes by the source impedance.

The “nominal” impedance that is given on headphones is usually the impedance at around 1 kHz in the midrange btw. So it is possible (esp. with dynamic drivers) for the impedance to be either much higher or lower at different parts of the frequency range, as shown on the graphs above.

If you DO NOT want the frequency response of your headphones to be affected by the impedance curve, this might be an argument for using headphones with planar magnetic drivers, which are a bit heavier than most dynamic driver headphones. Or a different kind of dynamic driver headphone than most of the above, with a flatter impedance curve. Or an argument for adding a dedicated (usually solid state) headphone amp, with a lower output impedance closer to one ohm, which will interact much less with your wired headphone’s impedance response curves.

Wireless Bluetooth headphones would probably also circumvent the frequency effects of such impedance curves.

Your current stereo setup doesn’t really seem ideally suited to incorporate a separate wired headphone amp btw, Peter. Because unless I’m mistaken it only has one analog audio output. And that is the variable level headphone jack.

Fixed line level audio outputs would generally be better for something like that.

I don’t know if the Bluetooth output could be used with a separate amp, vs. just using some Bluetooth headphones with their own amplification already built-in (which adds some weight). Maybe so though. I mostly use wired gear in my setups. So my knowledge of the different wireless tech options that might be available along those lines is not very extensive.

Perhaps there is some way in your gear’s settings to also switch the variable analog output on the headphone jack to a fixed line level output more appropriate for use with a separate wired headphone amp. Some portable digital devices will have options like that on their analog outputs, I believe.

I only included the impedance of headphones I own. It is easy to google. I googled the weights for some.

  • Sennheiser HD 550, 237 grams
  • Sennheiser HD 560S, 120Ω, 240 grams
  • Sennheiser HD 490 Pro, 130Ω, 260 grams without cable
  • Sennheiser HD 600, 300Ω, 260 grams without cable
  • Sennheiser HD 650, 260 grams without cable

All of those can receive a optional balanced cable, but come standard with an unbalanced 3.5mm TRS cable and a 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapter.

Foam ear pad headphones are supra-aural (on-ear) but many of those are so much lighter still, as are some leather or fabric ear cup supra-aurals

  • Koss Porta Pro, 60Ω, 60 grams
  • Sennheiser HD 25, 70Ω, 140 grams without cable
  • Grado RS2e, 280 grams

Many Grado supra-aurals are much lighter still. Not all are tuned neutral

I did read “do not need headphone amplifier” and yet the headroom that the higher power affords all headphones, and the quality of most add-on amps exceed the quality on a receiver jack or from a computer motherboard or phone. The Schiit Magni is a headphone amp with RCA inputs and unbalanced RCA and a 6.35mm headphone output. The Magni Unity adds a USB DAC input while retaining RCA input, an unusual feature in a DAC/Amp. It can connect to your phone USB-C and the line output of your receiver, bringing out the best from any pair of headphones. You may still want to consider a dedicated headphone amp.

Thanks for the explanation on dampening. I had not really thought about it but it makes sense when the manufacturers go to some effort to tell you the coatings that are applied to driver surface to possibly control it. Given the impedance range Google offered up, in my collection the Sennheisers from a HD58x through HD660s would fit the bill. Here is a list of them with some specs.

Brand Model Type Form Back Design Impedance (Ohms) Sensitivity (dB SPL/V @ 1 kHz) Measure Unit 1 kHz Max Power (mW) Power to reach 110 dB (mW) Driver Size (mm) Freq Resp Low (Hz) Freq Resp High (Hz) Objective Sound Quality Audio Frequency Weight (oz) Weight (g) Cable/BT Version
Sennheiser HD 560S Wired Over Ear Open 120 110 1 120.00 40 6 38000 60.4 6 - 38 KHz 8.5 241.0 Detachable
Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee Wired Over Ear Open 150 104 1 597.16 40 12 38500 49.8 12 - 38.5 Khz 9.2 260.8 Detachable
Sennheiser HD 600 Wired Over Ear Open 300 97 1 5,985.79 42 12 40500 38.3 12 - 40.5 KHz 9.2 260.8 Detachable
Sennheiser HD 660S Wired Over Ear Open 150 104 1 597.16 42 9 41500 51.7 9 - 41.5 KHz 9.6 272.2 Detachable
Sennheiser HD 6XX Wired Over Ear Open 300 104 1 1,194.32 40 10 41000 51.3 10 - 41 KHz 9.2 260.8 Detachable

Tim

There are a number of DAC/AMPS with Bluetooth input. iFi makes several, so does FIIO. Sound can be pretty good with them, but you are limited by the Bluetooth bandwidth. I even use the iFi Zen Blue Bluetooth DAC as input from my iPad to a speaker system in the office.


On another subject, is it just me? I’m sort of confused about what this thread is about. I notice that I’ve been confused since about 1969, so it might be me.