Kind Advice on Amp for my Sennheiser HD 800s

[Greatestboss]

Hello Everyone,

Just got promoted and my Birthday is coming up nest Sept. I’d like your kind advice to get myself a gift

I’ve just bought a Sennheiser HD 800s Headphones and I’m looking for an Amp to pair it with. Please note the following before answering my question.

1- I have a Marantz Cinema 30 AV Receiver supposedly a top-of-the-line unit that has a built-in DAC.

2- I will mainly use the Headphones for 80% Watching Movies, Football, Sports & 20% for Music " Heavy Metal, Rock and Movies Soundtracks".

My Question,

1- Which Amp do you recommend to connect to my Marantz Cinema 30 and my Sennheiser HD 800s Headphones?

2- Is the DAC in the Marantz sufficient or I will need a separate DAC?

I don’t want to pay over the odds, yet I want one that has the power to handle the Marantz and Sennheiser and blend well together.

Kind regards

[Thomas_Roy]

Without actual experience with Sennheiser headphones (except for HD-414s in the 70s driven by a Sherwood S-8900a receiver), I have understood that a tubed amp is better for Sennheisers. I have often considered a pair of HD-6XX for $200 from Drop, but I have the 4XXs driven by a Monolith THX dac/amp for those. for my FIIO FT-1s, i use an Xduuo TA-22. all small potatoes, but I really like what I have so far.

Edit: I use the 4XXs with a small bass shelf boost on the Monolith THX, which yields a satisfying reach into the sub bass area. The FIIOs don’t require that attention, so I listen to them flat.

[gzost]

You can use the Marantz as a DAC. AV amps usually have middling measured DAC performance, but even that is good enough (and more than good enough brings no benefits).

You do not need all that much power for the HD800S, so pretty much any modern desktop amp will do. Entry-level models from Topping, Schiit or JDS Labs are common recommendations, and all are fine for your use case.

When people talk about tube amps sounding great with the Sennheiser HD800S (or the HD600) this is about the slight bass boost that results if the output impedance of the tube amp is really high (better achieved via EQ) and possibly also distortion that rises with frequency, which can lead to a perceived softer treble.

Since the HD800S can really benefit from a bit of EQ, something to consider would be a DAC/amp combination which includes EQ features. The Topping DX5 II could work here since it also has SPDIF digital inputs. It is pricier than just an entry-level amp but a really neat device with a lot of features and sufficient power for 99% of all headphones out there.

[generic]

The HD 800 S is one of my main daily drivers. It’s a very good product, but it doesn’t have much bass and can come across as too bright with some setups. Still, the treble is not harsh on a suitable setup.

I run mine on a Decware Zen Taboo Mk IV (my review) tube amp. This amp brings out more bass than I ever thought possible with these headphones. Still, I routinely run it with an equalizer bass boost too. These are my Schitt Lokius knob settings on the Decware, while the two left knobs would be cranked farther with most other amps:

While I don’t disagree much with @gzost, tube amps also add thickness/body through harmonic distortion. Well-behaved tube amps generate a more encompassing and 3D perception of the soundstage, while bad tube amps can smear or rumble or whine and aren’t worth the effort. To my ears, the 800 S sounds substantially thinner on a solid state Class A amp with a bass boost than on tubes.

The 800 S isn’t hard to drive by modern headphone standards, but it’s quite resolving and will pick up on any DAC or amp artifacts your system may generate. If you are hearing bad treble, change your DAC. If are hearing thinness, use EQ and/or try tubes.

[Jennifer]

I use a topping a70 pro with my 800s and I eq throuugh Roon

[Greatestboss]

@generic

Decware Zen Taboo Mk IV

Thank you generic for all the detailed info. I haven’t’ previously considered the tube amp as some of the good ones are pretty expensive, yet the one you mentioned and reviewed is impressive and within my budget. Is it widely available. I wanted to ask out of curiosity, have you ever came across the Benchmark HPA4 Headphone / Line Amplifier. Is it as good as they say?

[Greatestboss]

Thanks gzost for the recommendation. I checked some of these amps and they’re reviews are mostly positive. Your tube part is interesting and generic covered it extensively. I’m wondering how come no one mentioned iFi ZEN CAN 3 or any of their products, they seem to be popular choice and reasonably priced.

Of course I wish I could afford the Sennheiser hdv 820 but it’s currently above my budget. There are some decent Austrian, and UK models beside the Made in USA brands available at premium price tags. So many choices it’s so dizzying

[Greatestboss]

Thanks Thomas, the Monolith THX dac/amp is a really good choice and within my budget. I’m continuing to read more about it. I’m spoiled for choices and that makes things even more confusing.

[Greatestboss]

Thank you Jennifer, topping seems highly recommended. So many people are praising them and they consistently get good reviews.

[generic]

@Greatestboss

I wanted to ask out of curiosity, have you ever came across the Benchmark HPA4 Headphone / Line Amplifier. Is it as good as they say?

I considered it several years ago, but that’s a clean solid state amp and not where I sought to go.

Offhand, amps fall into several categories:

1. Clean and technical solid state (e.g., THX, Benchmark, most Chinese products): While strong on paper, they sound too lean, dry, and sterile to many people. Some reserve them for studio work rather than pleasure or relaxation.
2. Warmer, relaxed solid state (e.g., many Schiit amps; RebelAmp): Often based on the simple Class A architecture, and have a thicker tone profile
3. Traditional tube amps (e.g., vintage McIntosh): Heavy on harmonics/reverb (aka “wet”), and hazy with rolled-off treble. This profile largely follows from the transformers rather than the tubes per se. Some love this, others hate them.
4. Technical tube amps (e.g., Linear Tube Audio / LTA): Replicate the solid state profile with tubes adding a bit of shimmer and holographic space. My Decware falls between #3 and #4, but has clean transformers.
5. Overdriven tube amps (e.g., some Schiit; most guitar amps): The tubes are pushed past their electrical limits to generate rock-n-roll style fuzz and buzz. Listen to Elle King and Peggy Lee’s "Fever” for what they do to all music.

“Good” starter tube amps can be had in the $500 to $1,000 class (e.g., Woo Audio; Bottlehead Crack kit; Feliks audo), and then there’s a jump in quality around $2K. Beyond the $2K to $3K range, I hear little or no quality improvements in tube headphone amps with real music. I’ve demoed many systems in stores and at audio shows.

[Greatestboss]

Thanks generic for the wonderful categorizations of the amps, I doubt anyone could’ve put it better in terms of clarity and description. You are definitely well versed in this manner; Hence I’ll take your word for my next question and proceed with the purchase.

I’m sure by now you’ve read my original post and would know what’s the use of my HD 800s would be, You’d probably would have advised me to buy a different Headphones than the HD 800s for prioritizing movies, sports as my main use and music as secondary but I’ve always been impressed with German technology in so many different fields Cars, Electronics, Home appliances..etc.. It oozes quality though so many other countries would also have their great stuff.
To make things short, since I already bought the Headphones (stuck with it or not) I intend to maximize it capacity while connecting it to the Marantz Cinema 30 which is equipped with 32-bit ESS Sabre DAC chips, hence I count on your expertise as you’ve demoed many systems in stores and at audio shows to give me a final advice on purchasing an DAC/Amp combo or Amp alone to connect it to the Marantz.

I don’t want to spend more than $1,000 at the moment and I’d like you to list few options for me. I currently reside outside the US and therefore I might need to import it from the US, Europe, Asia and that’s not an issue. I stay in a tax free country and process of importing is straightforward.

I got several recommendations and I read so many reviews, iFi, Benchmark, Violectric HPA V222, Violectric HPA V550, Cayin IHA-8. Cayin HA-300 Mk.I, Questyle CMA18 Master, Chord Mojo 2, Chord Electronics Hugo 2, toppings Amps, Mass Kobo Model 433, Matrix TS-1, Audiolab M-DAC+, Austrian Audio Full Score One, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M, JDS Labs and Eversolo DMP-A6 Streamer and DAC.

So many different models by different brands from different countries. Some of these choices are above my budget and as you’ve correctly pointed out Beyond the $2K to $3K range, you hear little or no quality improvements in tube headphone amps with real music.

Unfortunately in here where I live and work, very rarely can you go out to electronics shop and demo before you purchase, therefore I will rely on your expertise and I’m ready to answer questions about my setup.

Again many tks.

| generic Founding Member
August 1 |

• | - |

Greatestboss:

I wanted to ask out of curiosity, have you ever came across the Benchmark HPA4 Headphone / Line Amplifier. Is it as good as they say?

I considered it several years ago, but that’s a clean solid state amp and not where I sought to go.

Offhand, amps fall into several categories:

1. Clean and technical solid state (e.g., THX, Benchmark, most Chinese products): While strong on paper, they sound too lean, dry, and sterile to many people. Some reserve them for studio work rather than pleasure or relaxation.
2. Warmer, relaxed solid state (e.g., many Schiit amps; RebelAmp): Often based on the simple Class A architecture, and have a thicker tone profile
3. Traditional tube amps (e.g., vintage McIntosh): Heavy on harmonics/reverb (aka “wet”), and hazy with rolled-off treble. This profile largely follows from the transformers rather than the tubes per se. Some love this, others hate them.
4. Technical tube amps (e.g., Linear Tube Audio / LTA): Replicate the solid state profile with tubes adding a bit of shimmer and holographic space. My Decware falls between #3 and #4, but has clean transformers.
5. Overdriven tube amps (e.g., some Schiit; most guitar amps): The tubes are pushed past their electrical limits to generate rock-n-roll style fuzz and buzz. Listen to Elle King and Peggy Lee’s "Fever” for what they do to all music.

“Good” starter tube amps can be had in the $500 to $1,000 class (e.g., Woo Audio; Bottlehead Crack kit; Feliks audo), and then there’s a jump in quality around $2K. Beyond the $2K to $3K range, I hear little or no quality improvements in tube headphone amps with real music. I’ve demoed many systems in stores and at audio shows.

[Klute]

I would say that you should start with an Apple Dongle DAC directly from Apple and go from there. I think that finding a specific place for listening to music is important and while I struggle with this myself, it can be amazing to cozy up to a great pair of headphones in a very comfortable location.

I believe that the HD800 is very easy to drive so you can get just about anything to drive it. You are looking for characteristics of the sound profile, or perhaps a lack thereof. Mobility is going to be important as you aren’t at a desk with equipment in arm’s reach. Or a cable extension will be good. When you are considering the cost of your AVR and your headphones you shouldn’t attach yourself to the marantz hardware persey. However since you spend 80% of your time intaking AV content I would say that sticking with the Marantz is a smart call. If your apple dongle sounds better than what ever solution you pick for the Marantz, then consider upgrading.

I will say however that tying into a Home Theater setup with headphones is NOT easy at all, so even though the Marantz DAC should be more than sufficient, there really aren’t other good options due to copyright protocols.

With that said, movies football and sports is going to care nothing about your hardware. Even going from a $1k dac/amp setup to PC onboard isn’t going to notice any difference. But if you separate your 20% to a DAP or separate dac/amp, only then will you start to see what a difference it will make.

In Conclusion: Your marantz will NOT hold you back 80% of the time, if you want to expand that last 20% then you can start looking into dac’s and amp’s. I might even say that you should just use the headphone amp in the marantz for the majority of the time and consider a listening station for the rest.

[Greatestboss]

Thank Klute for the detailed info. You’ve addressed a lot of my concerns.

1- Just to give you an idea how how my setup is, the Denon DBT-3313UDCI drives my SACD collection as the Panasonic DP-UB9000 is not capable of playing SACD. The Marantz Cinema 30 drives the Turntable player. As you can see everyting is routed through the Marantz, hence to be able to to use the HD 800s for music, it seems I need to find a way to buypass the Marantz.
2- As you’ve indicated, for Movies and Sports, it won’t make much of a difference, I can connect the headphones directly to the Marantz Headphones jack and probably it won’t make a difference in sound watching movies or sports.
3- The 20% is what concerns me, I want to be able to enjoy the SACD and Movies Soundtrack and my good collection of records.
4- Would the Apple Dongle DAC makes a difference or I just need to jump directly to a DAC and Amp setup.

Here are few screenshots of my room if it may help.

Regards

(attachments)

[generic]

@Greatestboss

32-bit ESS Sabre DAC chips

The older ESS DACs have a reputation for being clean and bright, and also harsh. The newer ones are have better reviews, but I moved away from Delta Sigma DACs quite a while ago. Both ESS and AKM chips can have high-pitched whiny artifacts too.

@Greatestboss

don’t want to spend more than $1,000 at the moment and I’d like you to list few options for me. I currently reside outside the US and therefore I might need to import it from the US, Europe, Asia and that’s not an issue. I stay in a tax free country and process of importing is straightforward.

I got several recommendations and I read so many reviews, iFi, Benchmark, Violectric HPA V222, Violectric HPA V550, Cayin IHA-8. Cayin HA-300 Mk.I, Questyle CMA18 Master, Chord Mojo 2, Chord Electronics Hugo 2, toppings Amps, Mass Kobo Model 433, Matrix TS-1, Audiolab M-DAC+, Austrian Audio Full Score One, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M, JDS Labs and Eversolo DMP-A6 Streamer and DAC.

First, each person needs to try for themselves. Some people hear or claim to hear minor differences while others don’t hear or care. Some want to be dragon slayers, whereby they (imagine) that cheap items sound as good as more expensive amps. This can be true sometimes, or it can be wishful thinking. Finally, many people are heavily influenced by appearance, reputation, and image. They buy with their eyes rather than their ears, and spend a fortune for no audible improvement.

This forum has had numerous questions similar to yours, to include from Europe or Asia where USA brands (e.g., Schiit) are hard to get or not worth the imported price. Check out these threads for a lot of feedback on specific models:

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[Greatestboss]

Thanks generic, Unfortunately I don’t have a chance to test them here, Therefore I’ll have to go with the safest option and that is the recommendation of people like your good self who has loads of experience with demoes and as I’ve said, I’m not that picky.

My first dilemma is either go with DAC/Amp or Amp alone. Once I make this decision, I will rely on your opinion and that of other colleagues of a reasonably priced piece of equipment- Max $1,000 to start with.

Tks

[generic]

Listen to @Klute and start with the simple and inexpensive Apple dongle. It’ll be fine for media consumption, as many sources aren’t recorded well and then compressed along the way. If you want to explore more for your 20% music use, check out the amp threads. Keep in mind the amp profiles I outlined earlier. Many people like a warmer and gentler delivery for music, but others like technical precision.