Looking for Best Speakers - Floor/Bookshelf

Go with the temptation. Believe me. :grinning:

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So why the Harbeth M30.2 XD? I was looking at the Super HL5 Plus XD for myself, or possibly the 40.3 monitor if I come into money (and don’t choose Vandersteen or EgglestonWorks floor standing models). I thought the Harbeth Compact 7 with a slightly larger enclosure, lower price and similar driver set (yes, I know the mids) was a good price point. The small one sealed box sounds like one.

For those who need a Harbeth reference here’s Overture’s page:
https://www.overtureav.com/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/harbeth/

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You are sticking with the old school retail model, where often very high profit margins are hidden in the price paid. This covers rent, utilities, labor hours, and 3-hour demo sessions that only result in a sale 10% or 25% of the time. But then the sales ratio seems to have fallen to 5% these days…

The rise of online-primary discounters such as Schiit and SVS cut the profit margin for a given level of performance far below what local retailers could offer. So, many stores went out of business, Circuit City was crushed, and Best Buy became a de facto showroom in an imitation of the Apple Store model. Apple makes modern retail work per its ability to charge very high mark up plus the fact that its products often don’t last longer than 2-3 years.

I’m not defending the old or the new models, but both have similar true costs that are either hidden or public.

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I chose the 30.2 because I have a very small listening room and the local dealer said the 30.2 was more suited for my space than the HL5. He allowed me to trial a pair of 30.2’s and I was so blown away that I immediately purchased them and haven’t second guessed myself since. They are that good. Essentially, they are a scaled down (and much more affordable) version of the 40.3.

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I see. You haven’t had a chance to listen to the Compact 7. I took care of my smaller space with the EgglestonWorks Nico Evo (my office) and the remaining space is pretty large, 15 x 25 with one end rather open. I think the HL5 would be enough, but since I won’t be buying for at least 6 months, I’ve got plenty of time to make a decision.

Having listened to the Harbeth, I find that both EgglestonWorks and Vandersteen have similar balance, if different strengths.

Pricing puts both Wilson Audio and Mágico out of reach, as models needed to fill that space are pretty much $35K plus.

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What’s a very high profit margin? In dry goods and jewelry (non-custom jewelry) the markup from wholesale is typically 300%. So if it’s half off, they’re still making 50%. Grocery stores operate on 1-2% markup.

I don’t have a problem if I buy retail (I’m not stoopid. I do ask for a discount) and cover a good dealer’s overhead. I get that back with knowledge at the time of sale and frequently service after the sale. This is not to say I won’t buy from online retailers for cheap stuff, or from reputable online dealers like headphones.com that have good return policies. And I’m happy to pay a few bucks more for that service.

It’s different with the Schiit world. They control the product. They control the price. They are the only outlet. They ONLY cut profit margin via cross-elasticity of demand with competitors product.

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@generic I totally agree that paying isn’t an issue. You must figure as well with a robust selection of speakers to try the audio store itself is taking a loss by opening packages and having to sell open box in the future or possibly not sell at all until the speaker is discontinued and depleted.

I totally respect the aspect, and also kind of find it unfair to just purchase something and return it. With or without restocking fees and shipping.

Many authorized retailers will get demo units sent from the manufacturer, this is how sound United does it and others as well. However as mentioned you only have a very limited quality to test and that leads you no where.

I am certain at sound and vision they did not receive many demo units they are not a massive retailer, yet actually cater to the audio enthusiasts and try to go the extra mile. Which is definitely something @pennstac should be considered.

But I do see both points on the matter. Maybe overture has the luxury to do so with a high volume of sales.

But in this scenario, like @Sturosen ‘s, he would get a chance to try many speakers and see what’s best. Making this frustrating situation far less complex

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My problem/maybe misconception is that I feel like virtually all speakers will sound awesome in the confines of the store’s listening room. I kind of don’t trust what I hear unless it’s in my house in the room where I listen.

That makes my choices fewer - lots of premium speakers aren’t sold with a return policy. And I know some places will allow me to audition - I’m just saying that too many choices, all of which sound great, is also a problem!

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Listen, Jersey Guy. Git yerseff on the Amtrak, and or I-95 and spend some time at Overture. Speakers do NOT all sound awesome in the store’s listening room. I nearly puked at half of them. And they have many size listening rooms.

Further, a speaker that sounds worse than another in the awesome room at a dealer will most likely sound worse in your house. Maybe different if you live inside a whale (round room, wet soft wall) or in a Glass House (don’t throw stones) with no carpets or drapes. But in general, you can compare in the store.

Listen to stuff you know. Even if you hand your wallet to a trusted spouse before entering, it’s worth the time to hear the different speakers. I drove an hour and a half to get to Overture, but there’s a smaller botique place actually IN a house in Harrisburg called Now Listen Here that has different stuff. And there are numerous small stores in the Philly area too. Not to mention across the river you have GNU YAWK CIDDY. You can go from store to store, like some wandering spirit gathering audio knowledge. All it costs is a subway token.

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Don’t you start talking logic with me, pal.

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Holy crap. You really are from Jersey.

Source - Wife is from Jersey.

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Well, I’m FROM Brooklyn; I live in New Jersey…

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Yes I can agree with that, but as mentioned a speaker that has rave reviews with measurements to back it in an audio store that has speakers that run in the 6 figures, which means the treatment is outstanding, didn’t have the type of sound I sought. I’m not saying the speaker was horrible. Yet I know for a fact that’s not what I wanted.

A bookshelf speaker of the same price in a room less treated sounded like 3 times better to me than that did.

So in my process of trying to see what’s out there I found something I love very much.

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Listen to @pennstac’s melodious voice of reason as a veritable “loudspeaker of common sense” (for this single post :wink:). You can easily hear the major differences in-store, and rapid back-to-back comparisons actually have value. This includes bright/not-bright tone, clean versus scratchy treble (e.g, Klipsch has waaaaaaaaaaaaaay less technical treble in the mainstream price bracket than many other brands), and detailed/precise versus loose and rumbly bass.

For my ears, treble requires listening until fatigue sets in. Some brands/models sound so harsh and unpleasant that I want to get away in moments. They WILL NOT get better over time. Those that do not quickly offend may still cause problems after a hour, but their inherent issues aren’t as bad.

It’s a lot harder to assess elevated and boomy bass, as that can often be created or eliminated through placement near a wall or room corner. Also, stores must set all the speakers in one space so some will have better positioning than others. I suppose for hardcore evaluations you might bring along foam or fabric to stuff in the ports.

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So let me ask a related but different question. My interest in a new set of speakers comes from a sense that I can do better with a different set rather than putting my KEF 950s - used in my home theater - onto double duty in a 2-ch setup. What I love about the KEFs in home theater - the punch-in-the-face quality, particularly where detail is often carried by other speakers in the system - is what I feel is holding back my 2-ch experience (which is nice, but could be better).

Here’s the question: How unusual is it to have different dedicated speakers for stereo/music than for home theater in one room? Different amps/receivers? Sure. But different speakers to use depending on your needs?

I know the answer might be, get a better set of front towers, but I do like the way the KEFs work with each other in my home theater.

Have others faced this issue and how have you dealt with it?

Some go down this path. I don’t know how common it is, as the mainstream seems to use a home theater setup for everything.

If you get speakers with a similar design philosophy and use an amp similar to a HT amp (e.g., Class D or Class AB), then you could duplicate your current experience and might just as well upgrade the speakers. However, a dedicated music system can also use planar, single driver, and/or open baffle, and/or high sensitivity speakers coupled with a Class A solid state, or a tube amp, or a SET tube amp. This could result in far less punch, per your configuration choices. There are many thousands of potential hardware combinations at every price point, and some result in different experiences.

What is your intent for the speakers? If you are listening to calmer and simpler music at lower volumes then you have more viable options.

I’m looking to listen to music of various types, loud and soft, electric and acoustic.

To be clear, I currently use the home theater towers for music but feed them through my Parasound amp when listening to music via a home theater pass through function. So the amp would be the same for my current music listening and possible future listening should I get dedicated music speakers.

Ultimately I am just seeking an upgrade for music listening.

I think that @generic and I are starting to make a good tag team. For music, you might want to try more musical speakers. KEF does make some, but they tend to skew toward the home theater crowd.

There have been a number of good suggestions. I tend to like a fairly balanced sound and a full-range speaker. But talking about speakers is sort of like high schoolers talking about sex. You may get a lot of theoretical knowledge, but it sounds as if you need to actually get out there and

 
listen.

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Unfortunately you need to move into the true reference line for 2 chl but those start running over $8k and UP !. I have heard the R11 ( $5k a pair) and R7 and both speakers work really nice with a host of amps, and integrated amps.

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Actually thinking of the R11s! I get to keep my KEF system, don’t add speakers to the room, and get the upgrade I want.

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