Yeah this was an expensive endeavor 
, but I didn’t get to go to Canjam so I brought Canjam to me I guess
4 Likes
Nice! I gotta try the HE1000 Stealth one of these days.
I LOVE the Caldera, but not so much for soundstage as for a very meaty/tonally accurate sound for a planar with great detail without being over-emphasized. I owned the HE1000V2 in the past, and the soundstage, warmth and grand presentation were on another level. Just didn’t like how soft it sounded. Maybe the Stealth changes that…
2 Likes
Yes, totally agree on Caldera - it blew me away from the first listen. I think you’ve used exactly the right words, as I would say this Stealth is less “meaty” than the ZMF, but I know if I couldn’t compare them A/B, I wouldn’t even know what was missing… and as far as softness goes, I am listening to Stealth on high gain, so I think it just needs power to shine
2 Likes
lol, my thoughts exactly!
2 Likes
Okay, the Sennheiser HD 800S arrived yesterday. They were in good shape, so I appreciate the EBay seller taking good care of them! Anyway, trying them out with a variety of my favorite genres - classic rock, alternative, soul, as well as some classical and jazz that I enjoy but don’t listen to quite as often (and the nature sounds recommended by @Svadhyaya) - I have a new insight.
I think I might be psychoacoustically broken for soundstage. I can hear only a tiny little difference in how spread out things are in the HD 800S vs the Focal Clear or even the Celestee closed-back. I expected it to be much more striking for how much people talk about this phenomenon with the HD 800S. I don’t hear any depth going forward at all (still feels like it is in the center of my head), but side to side does seem slightly intensified. This also definitely comes with a huge cost to the quality of guitars and vocals. I’m glad I went ahead and tried one of the top models for this effect, as now I feel much more comfortable focusing primarily on FR and other technicalities.
I’m definitely planning to let these guys go shortly, as I find their FR difficult to cope with. I can see how someone would like them for classical with all of the detail, but not worth it to me as that’s not a primary genre.
One other small insight was that the amp choice does seem to make a difference, but it is still subtle in my brain. I think that my Tube Mini dongle actually has more of a sense of space than even the WA 22 for a given pair of headphones. I wonder if it is because the little preamp tubes in that bad boy are coping with low power and putting out more distortion - I have heard that 2nd order harmonic gain is responsible for part of the effect that certain desirable rooms might have on acoustics, so perhaps it is giving my brain a sense that the music is coming from an actual physical space with room modes. It’s just a thought that hit me, and maybe totally off base, but curious if anyone has insight on that possibility.
Also, to be clear, I definitely like the sound of the WA 22 quite a bit more than the Tube Mini (just a fun little solution for travel, never intended to compete with its big brother), and this just underscores how I don’t think soundstage is going to be as important to me as other factors. Others expressed similar opinions above, so I’m not terribly surprised by this results, and no regrets - I really have had fun investigating this so far!
Finally, all this buying and testing and selling headphones has me thinking, headphones.com should be doing something like those wardrobe boxes like Stitch Fix (I think). It would be awesome to be able to order a box of 5 headphones, demo them, and keep just the ones you like. I mean, with the return policy, I suppose it is sort of like that, but that would definitely feel like taking advantage. I’m thinking there could be some curated “CanJam @ Home” packages. I’ll take my royalties for the idea in the form of headphones and / or tubes… 
9 Likes
Nice post.
Yep. I think that a few things are going on here. The more we become attuned to headphones the more little differences seem like big ones. Also headphones don’t generally do that much to present stuff forward like speakers do.
Earpads can make a difference. I find that ones that are thicker toward the back of the head and angle the headphones slightly do seem to make a subtle difference - like on the Rosson RAD-0, I get slightly more front to back soundstage than on others. Probably has to do with the outer ear. From what @Torq and others say with the RAAL, that headphone does have significantly more front to back presentation. But is it something a person who doesn’t usually listen to headphones would comment on? I don’t know.
You’re lucky to be in a position to try and explore in a budget range that would give buyers of consumer grade headphones apoplexy.
Well they did, sort of. There were several headphone and IEM tours, where you got to try things for a week or three in exchange for a “review”. This stopped, possibly because of shipping and/or damage issues. 
We’ve been hoping for something to resume, but hope is waning.
I categorically deny that the discontinuance of the headphone tours has anything to do with my hash of a review for the ONE headphone sent to me, the awful Audeze LCD-2 closed back. No siree, Bob, it wasn’t that.
7 Likes
That was exactly how I felt. 800s was all width and no depth 
I loved the fit and comfort of it, but that was about it. And I know it can be EQ’d into a more impressive headphone, but I don’t believe in spending $1200 for something that still needs work.
I would love to know what you think of the Hifiman sound. If you haven’t tried them, you can order any of their models on Amazon Prime and then send it back free from the UPS store. I demoed the 109 Pro and the 800s this way. No hassle.
That would’ve saved me a lot of money 
2 Likes
I strongly suggest you try 2-3 times over a few weeks before deciding. My ears learn and change. I also strongly suggest trying different types of amps, as some headphones shift from hate to love or vice versa.
Same here. I hear the 800 S as wide left to right, but not deep front to back.
Errrrr…that’s most headphones…you can tweak with EQ or shift to the $3,000 to $6,000 class and may still not like the sound. It’s technically tough getting a single driver to generate the full frequency response top to bottom, and to do it right next to the ears. It’s also tough getting much bass out of a single small driver.
They sound okay, but often a bit boring and too diffuse.
2 Likes
That’s fascinating, for me the 800s sounded boring and the HE1000 sounds alive and engaging, as did ZMF Caldera and Meze Elite. It’s all in our heads though isn’t it
But I have decided to try EQ in the form of the Schiit Lokius, cause I’m way more enticed by analog knob fiddling than I am by creating profiles for every headphone on Equalizer APO
It’s going to be material-dependent in all cases. Some pieces have more obvious width than others. Acoustic pieces, with a simple two-mic stereo array, recorded in a live room (not via individual mics on each instrument and/or in separate sessions that then get mixed), will generally exhibit it best.
Classical music, which often means orchestral works, can either be good or completely terrible for this. Stuff that is recorded with a mic per section, or per primary instrument, won’t exhibit stage as well (if at all) as something recorded with a frontal two-mic setup.
DEPTH-wise spatialization is very much dependent on the recording. If the recording wasn’t done in a manner that can capture it, the headphones won’t add/emphasize it.
Try some of the Chesky binaural recordings, especially their binaural test-sequence.
Also, the HD800S were last on my list for rendering depth - they can do it, but they’re a long way behind the SR1a or even MySphere in that regard.
The WA22 is a balanced design; that’ll cancel out even-order harmonics - so I would absolutely expect the Tube MINI to exhibit more 2nd harmonic output.
7 Likes
Wow. So does that mean SE tube amps tend to sound more spacious?
I am feeling very hyped about the Raal Magna and Immanis…
That was my point in suggesting testing with multiple setups. The 800 S indeed sounds weak, thin, distant, and boring on some amps. It can seem that the sound is coming from a stereo system in the room next door with a poor match. IMO the HD 800 S and other Sennheiser headphones (e.g., HD 600) cause polarized reactions because they ‘scale’ or respond differently to amps and setups so very much.
Synergy. If the highly experienced @ProfFalkin was still around, he’d go into great depth about synergy.
I prefer more definition and edge than what I’ve ever heard from HiFiMan, up to and including the Susvara. I do like the Elite. I haven’t liked the ZMF’s I’ve heard per their audible thick resonances.
4 Likes
Totally makes sense. I’ve been using Topping A70 Pro and I do feel the limitations of it, which is why I’ve ordered Schiit Mjolnir 3 based on reviews like Currawong’s. I’m excited to explore synergy, but I also liked evaluating headphones all on one basic source to get a feel for which models stand out for me without the benefit of synergy. I’d rather narrow it down to a few HPs I’m already happy with and then experiment from there
1 Like
Yes yes yes - great point about recordings and technique. They have to capture the soundstage or there is no soundstage to hear.
Perhaps you could point to a few recordings that were made properly to exhibit some depth. Thanks in advance.
5 Likes
They tend to have a more “holographic” and “sweet/lush” presentation, due to the presence of even-order harmonics. I don’t know if that directly translates to being “more” spacious.
I’m interested to see what they come up with.
BUT, I doubt they’re going to be any better than an HD800S or LCD-4 in terms of staging (depth-wise at least), as they’re a circumaural design that are only canted relative to the ear by their pads (same as the LCD-4). They’d have to sit off, and forward-of, the ears entirely, with an open-baffle/no-baffle design to allow for the natural “cross-feed” to be able to do what the SR1a does imaging-wise.
1 Like
Start with the Cheeky binaural stuff. It’ll even narrate that position and movement of the source.
That amp and other ultra-measurements balanced amps would be high on my list of amps to avoid with Sennheiser headphones. I prefer Class A and I prefer tubes. As @torq notes above regarding the WA22, a balanced amp cancels out harmonics. In my experience Sennheisers often sound best (or correct) with harmonics. And yes, the naturally lean 800 S often benefits from elevated bass EQ.
I don’t think that’s meaningfully possible, as synergy is super important. If starting out today I’d buy 3-4 amps in different styles to evaluate all the headphones that I have or try. This would include at least two tube amps (an OTL plus a not-OTL), at least one Class A solid state (ideally with both balanced and single-ended output), and perhaps (barely PERHAPS) an ultra-measurement solid state amp such as the A70 Pro.
Be very careful. Some headphones sing like angels with the right setup. My opinion of what I own changes per the setup. The lowly HD 6XX sounds completely different to me (in a good way) on an OTL tube amp.
2 Likes
Wow, that’s really helpful, thank you 
I will look into some tube amps. How does OTL sound vs non-OTL?
With my lowly 6XX, the Schiit Valhalla sounds spacious and fleshed-out tonally. It was more dynamic on the balanced output of the Flux FA-10, but I’d take the Valhalla overall. This gets back to synergy – the Valhalla is $300 while the FA-10 is about $1200.
OTL amps will generally pair best with high-impedance 'phones. On a lower-impedance planar magnetic headphone, I expect the FA-10 to stomp the Schiit out of the Valhalla.
Always just my opinion of course, but Wiim Pro Plus → Valhalla → 6XX sounds surprisingly good for an entire chain with an MSRP < $750.
6 Likes
Ok got it, I love less money for better sound!
2 Likes