Certain forums only focus on measurements and then it becomes a discussion of price relative to measurements. It’s helpful, but also misses the style, durability, and support.
It reminds me of people that complain about high tax rates in other states where they don’t live. People don’t live there and pay high taxes because they like paying taxes, but because it offers other elements for their quality of life that makes the value worth it.
Oh certainly, I am speaking from a pure performance perspective here (even if that is also somewhat subjective). Value doesn’t mean that much to me (to some extent) but it obviously means something to the people saying it “punches above its price”. A good headphone is a good headphone, regardless of price, but sometimes contextualizing performance with price can be a good thing, seeing as you would want your 1000 dollar headphone to sound better than a 300 dollar one, not just be better built and have a better accessory set or whatever (at least I personally think so, maybe someone disagrees?).
They might say that’s what they want … but their actual buying choices generally don’t reflect it.
Otherwise the product landscape would be vastly skinnier than it is.
Due to confirmation bias, there’s a fine line between “I would expect a $1000 headphone to sound better than a $300 headphone” and “this $1000 headphone does sound better than that $300 headphone”.
Since @alhifi brought up a car analogy, and I like cars … I once got a complimentary upgrade on a car rental to a Volvo (S60 I think). Being a luxury sedan, I expected it to be comfortable, fun to drive and luxurious. It turned out to be somewhat cramped, under-powered and outfitted with a navigation system so user-unfriendly that it must have been on purpose.
The Volvo seats are comfy though 
Yes, I do remember that. OTOH, the seats in the much cheaper Nissan Altimas I used to rent were very comfy too 
Best seats and the Volvo Navigation got optimised
At the risk of creating sufficient off topic commentary to be relegated to a new thread. (@Torq, I suggest “BitBucket”) your comments re non-porsche cars fail to account for Dodge Hellcat vehicles and cars of that genre. And yes, I liked the Porsche Superbowl commercial.
Scorg: To simply things, we must (ideally collectively) agree to some set/verified ‘standard’ of performance. A ‘Reference’, so-to-speak.
Turning to (or remaining on -lol) hi-fi,let’s consider the Hifiman 400i headphone; it’s a fantastic ‘can’ that can/does compete with some competitor’s $1K models. I believe this can be based on both subjective SQ interpretations as well as through technical aspects; ‘response’ charts/spec’s.
To my mind (In this arena) another model/brand best be working (mightily) for the extra ($100., $500, $1K +) money asked. That’s a lot of money folks. I’m not sure what the median age of readers may be, yet I can offer from experience that prior to the year 2005, there was only a handful of expensive home hi-fi products available ($5-$10K/component). And the reviewer’s that would evaluate such product would not, could not fail to mention the astronomical price !
And then, almost at the stroke of midnight (circa 2005/6), pricing on ‘premium’ hi-fi doubled, tripled in price. I vividly recall thinking (by 2007) what in the world could account for this price escalation -explosion? I had no (sensible) answer. And still don’t. Since then of course, prices continued to sky-rocket; $1K, $2K, $5K+ headphones, cabling, equipment racks, $20K-$50K amps, loudspeakers. Are you kidding me ?
This nightmare of such price structuring is mercifully coming to an end. And it will end a in a crash so loud it’ll be heard around the globe. Has anybody’s pay (pay-cheque) doubled or tripled (or more) as today’s merchandise offerings ? Are ‘we’ getting that much richer?
It’s high-time for some back-to-basic, good-ol’e value propositions, and finding a hi-fi component that represents a verified ‘reference’ in both ‘price’ and in absolute terms (if there is such a thing) must be sought. And respected.
pj
This is not unlike the economics of past boom times (e.g., The Golden Age of industrialization between The US Civil War and WW1). This is not unlike what happened with luxury watches and sports cars in the last few decades either. At one point Porsches were tarted up Volkswagens (and sometimes still are). At one point Rolex and Breitling sold watches for working professionals.
IMO, high-end pricing is driven by a relatively small number of people with unlimited cash who enter a previously function-driven market. They seek something ‘special’ or ‘better’ and the market shifts toward style and build quality to justify the price difference. This is why you can pay $300 or $3,000 for a different quality of room in the same hotel or different seat on the same airplane. The entry of the wealthy into a given market also drives up collector values – the cheap cookie cutter muscle cars of the 1960s eventually sold for $200K to $1M too.
Most underlying technology for headphones, speakers, and amplifiers is very mature. If you seek a cost effective listening experience just get the classics from Sennheiser or some products from HiFiMan.
I don’t see it ending. I see the market stratifying as it stands today. There will always be a few people who want something to wow their friends or make themselves feel a warm and fuzzy inside. High end audio products may also become a collector’s market and be traded for a long time in the future. These things are partly generational and partly random.
I also feel that prices won’t fall anytime soon. Sure the budget end of Audio seems to be drawing in more more people. With sites such as Drop playing a large part in the last few years and the burgeoning Chi-fi market also. But the boutique end of things I can see growing and sadly I’m sure prices will continue to steadily rise.
I hope not of course. But folk will pay what they pay. Just my thoughts.
The price increases you cited created a vacuum for new manufacturers to fill. Additionally, streaming and the expansion of computer based audio has created a whole new slew of inexpensive products. High end audio is a niche market. There is a pretty strong mid-fi market.
I blame nomenclature. Nomenclature inflation. At Rat Shack, a patch cord cost $3.99 Now at Audio Advisor, an interconnect (new nomenclature for patch cord) is $159 at least.
A program costs $49 one time. The Subscription is only $14.99 . . . Every month
Phones are just the opposite. Used to be owned by Ma Bell, and usually part of the rent you paid for lines. Now you subscribe to the service, and your phone costs a Grand, but wait! You can buy it over time for only $20 per month more on your subscription.
Skateboards to hoverboards.
Fill in the blank. Endless examples.
Funny (not really though) how many Rat Sacks have gone under. Four of them closed by me in the last five years. I bought lots of stuff at huge discounts. Caig D5 gold spray $7, batteries 70 percent off, special connectors 80 percent off, etc…
The entire chain closed
When one’s definition of wealth is having more than others, it becomes increasingly more challenging to satisfy the ego. If I have so much money, then I need to own something that others find difficult to own. Its appeal is no longer about the quality of the product itself but how much more difficult it is to acquire for anyone else.
Hence the exclusive clubs, unique painting collections, rare brands with 500x markup, etc. You can extend this process to any industry, and high end audio is no exception.
For the vast majority of us who aren’t looking to spend money to feel exclusive, there is plenty of joy to be had in buying great quality products at good prices and simply enjoying the hell out of them.
Hi Gen: Perhaps so, yet one aspect often heard/suggested but nowhere close to the truth/ reality is the notion:
" IMO, high-end pricing is driven by a relatively small number of people with unlimited cash who enter a previously function-driven market."
That’s what’ so bizarre -and untrue. Only a very few buyer’s of supremely expensive gear by recognized hi-fi ‘names’ purchase some of this kooky-priced stuff. They are, few/far between. They are, collectively/individually, exceedingly cheap/frugal -not many will pay anywhere near the represented price. That’s fact. And, naturally, many such folks are far more interested in prestige than actual performance merit -although of course some examples offer both.
But by far, when you/I go to a hi-fi show (North America anyway), I assure you 95% of visitors are simply average Joe hi-fi buff’s. The ‘one’s’ (the ‘few’ people) considering (or actually purchasing) amps or loudspeakers “priced” at $50K-$100k and above NEVER pay that price. Not even close. That;s the sad/funny, ironic part of it all.
If one wishes to get a much better idea of the real value of some of this outrageously priced gear, simply visit any used hi-fi websites; that $100K loudspeaker of yesterday is being advertised for $30K -if that.
Consider ML’s ‘Reference’ No. 52, No. 53 (pre/power), five years ago at $30K USD/ea. ($90K total) have been recently and regularly being advertised at $20-$30K, likely selling for less. This Mark Levisnon example is not even an example of insane pricing, simply a bit crazy.
Other examples exist throughout the marketplace of this ridiculously (retail) priced gear selling (excuse me being ‘advertised’) at 1/3-1/5th of its foolish price. The notion of a handful of rich idiots buying this stuff as one would a ‘Picasso’ simply ain’t happening -to any sustainable extent anyway.
pj
But if you expand this notion down to a class lower than the super elite scale referenced, it’s a larger but still small segment of people willing to pay high prices. The same thing is seen in high end cars, furniture, and wines.
No sir. Global asset prices have skyrocketed over the last 50 years. High end items have become Wall St. alternative investments. There are many billionaires who will pay anything for anything. One painting sells for $100M, another for $450M. And then it disappeared because of a deep controversy and possibly not being what it seems to be.
When they get bored or die their heirs sell at a loss…standard trickle down economy…
Hi Gen: I was referring to prices paid for Hi-Fi -not Art/Paintings, Cars, Wine -or any other (high) ‘valued’ commodity. Of course there are a handful of billionaires buying all kinds of things, but few/far between buying hi-fi -save for those mentioned who have a ‘thing’ for a particular brand/image.
Bottom line, these guys are not ‘carrying’ the industry -it’s the middle income crowd representing the bulk of sales and typically NOT purchasing $100K loudspeakers -although they may very well pay $25K.(for the $100K speaker).
Typical “high-roller’s” (not billionaires) are ruthless cheapskates.
pj