All I can say to that photo is…
“…oof.”
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Well reconfigured for dual mono-Vidars…now to hurry up and wait on a black finished Freya+ for preamp duty. Currently the chain is 2x Vidars in mono -> RME ADI-2DAC -> RAAL interface -> SR1a
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What do you think of 1x Vidar vs. 2?
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Only got in a couple of tracks, but I agree with your statements on them. One is perfectly acceptable and amazing…two, well that just brings it home lol. It just gets better across the board! I do need to fiddle with my chain though, as I don’t think I optimized yet. I need to figure out how to add the Cayin Ha-1a mkii back into the mix as my pre-amp and get rid of the passive volume control. I do like having the RME ADI-2DAC back in the chain though!
I’m due for some optimization of my setup in general/overall…but it will have to wait until after vacation lol…
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Have you considered trying the RAAL SR1a with some higher-end amplification, like a Burmester BA 911 MK3?
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I’ve done some, but probably won’t do more.
I haven’t heard anything above the AHB2/Linn/Chord stuff that’s actually any more resolving, in a couple of cases micro-dynamics actually suffered, tone might shift a bit but that’s not necessarily desirable.
A common problem with these big, very expensive, amplifiers is that, except when you actually need the power they offer, they often don’t sound that great compared to less expensive (and definitely better measuring) options. For example, power-excepted, a Schiit Vidar has significantly better numbers than the Burmester.
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I like the single Étude better than the dual-Vidar. It’s a little more resolving and a little faster (transients). Maintains the meatier low-end that dual-Vidar gets you over a single - otherwise the tone is a little more neutral (Vidar is warmer over all, though a bit less so with two) … without becoming lean (the AHB2 I found to be lean, the Étude is not like that).
In raw performance there’s definite diminishing returns … the Étude costs 4x what dual-Vidar does, and is maybe 5-10% better overall (and you might need the same front-end chain and preferences to get to that, even).
Gain (not power) is higher on the Étude, which mates a bit better with DAVE when using it’s outputs directly and playing quieter material. It matches my Chord stack, and takes up less space than twin Vidar’s (though not by much, once it is in its stand).
Haven’t compared the TToby yet, probably won’t until the end of September.
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I’m enjoying the heck out of my dual mono Vidar setup (thank you for this @Torq), it hits harder and resolves better, than the single Vidar…but I agree with what @Torq has said above regarding the difference. One is excellent for me, but two is like adding chocolate to peanut butter (or your preferred saying in relationship symmetry here).
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Very helpful and great insight as always @Torq, thanks for that.
I just wanted to follow up on my fried amps:
- Schiit accepted the return of the Vidar and gave me a full refund (how cool is that? Kudos to them, they won my heart);
- SPL repaired the performer s800 at their own cost (They also know how to take care of their customers - kudos to them as well).
I had acquired a second Performer s800 while the first one was getting repaired and now I’ve two of them but I learned from SPL that they don’t recommend running them in Bridge mode with less than 8 ohm impedance speakers and unfortunately the SR1a interface box is rated at 6 ohm. I wonder what would happen if I ran them in bridge mode anyway without blasting the volume to above 85 dB…?
My understanding is that the amps would output more current into the interface box causing some potential hazardous heat for the fuses, resistors or even the board specially at loud volumes but I’m not sure if that’s the case at around 85 dB.
I would appreciate your insight on this. Thanks
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It’s great to hear that both Schiit and SPL took care of you, and very nice of Schiit especially to take back a broken amp.
As for running the s800 bridged … if SPL say don’t do it with loads less than 8 Ω, then I would not do it. The risk isn’t to the SR1a’s interface box so much, it’s to the amps.
The interface/SR1a are going to draw whatever current they need for a given frequency/signal and SPL. That current won’t be higher just because you have more power available (they can only draw what they need in accordance with ohms law, their sensitivity, and output SPL).
The problem will occur if the current required at 6 Ω (I think it’s actually 5.6 Ω) for a given listening level results in either an over-current condition in the amplifier (in which case it’s over-current protection should trip), or an over-temperature condition in the amplifier (in which case it’s thermal protection should trip).
You might be fine, or you might be constantly tripping the over-current protection, without knowing how it’s implemented, and what the thresholds are, I can’t really say.
Here’s the kicker though … these protections are not infallible. Shorting the outputs on the amp should have tripped it’s over-current protection. Instead, it killed the amp. Now whether that’s because a full short-circuit was just too much for the protection, and all you’d ever get is a reset condition at 5.6 Ω (or whatever), or whether any tripping of that protection, even if it’s just over the threshold, has the potential to kill the thing.
There are benefits to dual-mono operation with the SR1a (or, indeed, speakers). These are most notable when a single amp, in stereo mode, does not provide enough power (e.g. Schiit Aegir) and/or for improving cross-talk/separation (which also tends to improve low-level resolution). But doing this should always be done with an amplifier rated for the load it is going to drive. Ratings might be conservative, but how much so is hard to say.
It’d be one thing to try it if you hadn’t just blown up an amp and had it repaired. I would be surprised if they were as willing to fix another one if you used it in a manner they had expressly advised against (and there’s really no mistaking when an amplifier dies due to over-current/shorting).
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Thanks @Torq. It was very nice of both Schiit and SPL indeed.
I agree with all your points and I definitely don’t want to fry another costly amp and I’m sure that SPL wouldn’t be só understanding this time around. I tried them in bridge mode anyways and man, the improvements were not night & day (maybe 5-10% max) but the bottom end just got more heft and the overall sound got more body to it.
I won’t rely on the protection systems because they failed to trigger last time “I needed” them to work. Thus, I’ll run a single Performer s800 with the SR1a and the other one on my speakers rig.
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It‘s a bit weird that they have advised you to not go bridged into less than 8 ohm, while their website says „In Bridge mode the Performer s800 delivery 450 W into 4 and 8 ohms speakers“ (https://spl.audio/professional-fidelity/performer-s800/?lang=en)…
They are German, and I’m located in Germany - I‘ll reach out to them and try to get some more reliable clarification.
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The manual clearly states not use the s800 in bridge mode with speakers rated below 8 ohm Impedance. I will appreciate if you can get a feedback directly from the source.
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I don’t see anything on the Performer s800 page that claims anything about bridged mode with 4 ohm speakers. The only references to it all clearly state 8 ohms as the minimum.
The Performer power amplifier effortlessly controls the speakers with a power of up to 2x 285 W into 4 ohms out of an analog linear power supply with toroidal transformer. In Bridge mode the Performer s800 delivery 450 W into 8 ohms speakers.
And in the specifications it says:
Output power
- 2x 285 W RMS into 4 ohms
- 2x 185 W RMS into 8 ohms
- 1x 450 W RMS into 8 ohms in bridge mode
And from the manual:
In bridge mode you only connect a single loudspeaker with at least 8 ohms to the Performer s800 power amplifier.
Also, it seems that the s800 has protection for DC and thermal overload, but NOT over-current or short-circuit situations. Over-current would eventually lead to thermal shutdown if it didn’t fry the amp first, but the former tends to happen faster than the latter, so it’s not a safe bet.
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I had a chat this morning (German time) with Sascha Flocken, who is responsible for PR & Marketing at SPL. At that time the reference to 4 ohm which I quoted above was still on the website, Sascha admitted that this is wrong, probably due to an error in the text creation process, and said he would get that fixed. That obviously happened very quickly, I too see it’s gone now, also in the German version 
Sascha added that he had heard the s800 with loudspeakers in the 4-5 ohm range and they had worked fine. An issue that could arise though with longer listening sessions at higher volumes with speakers that have a higher power consumption, is that the s800 could get too hot and consequentially go into Thermal Protection mode.
I described our use case here, i.e. connecting two s800 in bridge mode to the interface box of the SR1a, in more detail, and Sascha will discuss with Bastian Neu who has developed the s800. Will report back here when I have his response.
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I also saw the 4 ohm speakers in bridge mode mentioned on the website last night and I noticed that they changed that already - very quickly indeed.
Thanks for taking the time to check with SPL on the community’s behalf. I’m eagerly waiting to hear the feedback from Bastian Neu. Once gain, for reference, the SR1a interface box is rated at 6 ohm impedance.
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The other day I watched an interesting video where the owner of Upscale Audio was pitching the Pathos Logos hybrid integrated amplifier. (Kevin, I forget his last name; he seems an interesting guy.) The Logos (seemingly) easily outputs 165 wpc into 6 ohms, and its preamp section utilizes 6922 tubes (or ECC88, about the same thing) which, from what I read, I would like. Supposedly it also has a really beefy power supply section. I have long espoused the advantages of separates, but with a streamer and (lightly used CD player) and a headphone interface box (and modem and switch and linear power supply and power conditioner) I’d be quite content to “settle” for an all-in-one-box solution for an amp and preamp!
You can watch the (if nothing else, entertaining) Pathos Logos review here
The hybrid integrated option is attractive to me, because I like the warmth and spaciousness tubes provide; I’m wondering if maybe the Logos would provide some tube warmth while still being beefy enough to make the Raals sound towards the top of their capability. Is there any way to tell if an amplifier like this would pair well with the SR1as, other than just trying it out with the SR1a headphones?
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Outwardly there’s no particular reason it wouldn’t pair nicely with the SR1a.
It has power-doubling performance into half the nominal rated impedance, which is what you want to see in terms of proper PSU sizing/capacity (something another commonly mentioned hybrid integrated unit, the McIntosh MA252, falls down on).
The SR1a will exploit all the speed, resolution, stereo separation and clean power you can give them. This means amps with high slew rates, good crosstalk numbers and distortion figures as low as possible. The Logos Mk II falls behind a bit on these numbers compared with similarly priced pure-solid-state options (always a potential trade off with tubes in the mix), but not to a level where it is likely to be directly audible outside of immediate back-to-back comparison.
Sure is a pretty looking thing … totally get the appeal of the integrated solution too …
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