Suggest audio-related topics for us to cover on our podcast, The Noise Floor!

You guys mentioned the well was running dry for ideas for podcast topics, so here’s some more, a mix of social and technical:

  • How have you gotten somebody else into the hobby?

Headphones are so enjoyable but they’re such a personal, private thing, and difficult to share. I so enjoy what headphones do, but it’s difficult to engage people, even close friends or family, in the hobby. It’s shocking to them that one might spend hundreds of dollars on headphones (and amps, DACs, cables etc.) on headphones when their idea of good headphones are Bose or Sony ANC bluetooth headphones. And wired headphones don’t even have those convenient features! I have had friends around who have had the patience to indulge me and try different headphones out, and who had a bit of a ‘oh, I kind of get it’ moment, but nobody has expressed any kind of interest beyond that. My wife of 8 years hasn’t been interested in listening to headphones for more than a single song - she’s content with the Earfun air pros I bought her years ago. So - how have you shared your headphones experience with others? Has it ever stuck? Have you ever converted a new believer? Tell me about it…

  • How do you find new music?

Finding music that is both new and good is hard. Like probably most people, I like stuff that is sufficiently similar to the stuff I already like so that it’s familiar and not weird, but novel and not generic. I like music across a diverse range of genres. I rely heavily on the radio (Triple J, which is a national alternative youth radio station in Australia), on recommendations from friends (which let’s face it are a drip feed not a flood), and to a lesser extent from Spotify’s algorithm, which is very hit or miss, and typically ends up playing me the same stuff I’ve heard over and over again. I’ve been enjoying checking out some of the artists that have been talked about on the live streams (but please - would really help if you would record them in the descriptions, not just in chat, because they’re so hard to find after the fact). So, how do you find new music?

Maybe less suited to the podcast and more suited to a GoldenSound amp style explainer video, but:

  • Please do an explainer of what it means for headphones to be minimum phase, and why we can basically ignore time domain effects.

I have pretty-much only just come to understand this concept, and it took listening to a whole bunch of your live streams and videos. I kind of half understood it but not really, and then it kind of re-twigged for me when Blaine made a comment on the most recent stream that ‘all peaks are resonances’. I think I get it now. You guys talk about this as though it’s common knowledge, and maybe it is for many, but there are also those of us (especially with no science / engineering / electronics etc. background) who don’t get it, or who kind of but not really get it. It would be super helpful if you could break it down into really basic steps.

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In an episode of the Noise Floor Podcast there was Blaine giving his impressions how he sees the other reviewers (Resolve, Golden Sound and Griffin). Does anyone know which episode this was?

I would like to have legitimate album reviews done during the noise floor podcast; all of the hosts should participate and have something to offer regarding that week’s album. How the album is chosen is something that would need to be decided, whether it’s chosen by the podcast listeners, via a forum poll or recommendations, or simply chosen by the hosts. I personally think it should be chosen by the forum members and listeners, as that way the hosts may potentially have to listen to something outside their normal genres/comfort zone, which could be great fun and entertainment for the audience; keeping an open mind would be required, though.

Having a segment like this will add a new element to the podcast and could draw a wider audience; should be lots of fun!

Hello folks! First time posting here. I love the podcast and have been tuning in for quite a few. Here are some topics I’d like to see in future episodes (I ramble for quite a bit so just read the bold text :smile:)

The Value of “Quick & Dirty” Measurements

There are 2 review sites I can think of: Audio Science Review (ASR) and Reference Audio Analyzer (RAI). I know you guys have pushed back on these kinds of reviews, for valid reasons, of course. However, I see a lot of valuable elements in them which can’t be easily found anywhere else. I hope I can see these elements in your future tools, reviews, or videos.

1. For Headphones:

1.1. The Misconception of “Dynamics”:

When I first started in this hobby, I thought “dynamics” literally meant how the loudness changes in relation with input signal, like gamma curve in imaging. A few minutes on RAI showed me that an increase of 10, 20, 30, etc. dBV equals an increase of 10, 20, 30, etc. dB SPL, regardless whether it’s a DCA or a Focal. I can’t find information anywhere else. I know you guys keep preaching that “dynamics” is just an effect, but I think there’s a value in showing, not just telling, that any passive headphones (so not Apple) are perfectly linear devices.

1.2. Impedance Curve:

Common wisdom is that you have to be careful with low impedance headphones and high impedance source, since it can change the FR. If you’re deep in the weeds, you’d know that it doesn’t apply to most planars, since they have flat impedance curves. If you’re deeper in the weeds, you’d find out that some dynamics like K371 or IEMs like 64 Audio also have flat impedance curves. It’d be nice if you guys have a database of impedance curves like ASR and RAI for all headphones/IEMs headphones.com carries.

1.3. Distortion vs Frequency Graph:

Having watched enough episodes, I think I get a sense of where you guys’ stances on distortion on headphones. For @Mad_Economist , I think he’s of the opinion that you can EQ the HD 800 to high heaven without any meaningful distortion at appropriate listening levels. Whilst for @Resolve , I think he’s more cautious about recommending certain headphones for folks who EQ and/or listen at high levels, such as the obvious Focal Clear, but also the HD 650 and HD 800 S to some extent. For me personally, I can do +20 dB sub-bass on the Focal Clear just fine. (I don’t, but I tried once as a stress test.) Other users such as Amir didn’t share my experience, and his unit measured fine.

All of that to say, I don’t think a Pass/Fail is enough for distortion, according to that one episode you discussed. Let’s say some headphones have a 10% distortion in the bass at 94 dB SPL, but also have a colossal +30 dB bass to begin with, you can’t just put a blanket statement like “If you’re someone who EQ, this headphones isn’t for you.” Because most likely, people would want to EQ that bass down, not up. In another instance, like for Abyss headphones, the distortion is massive in the upper treble to the point where it’d actually considered “Fail”, but that’s irrelevant for those who just want to know whether they can EQ the bass.

So, what’s the solution here? For most consumers, I’d say don’t even bother with distortion. Even Pass/Fail is misleading IMO. But we’re an edge case of a community with some listening at concert-level and beyond, some sniffing so many graphs that do +30 dB with Q=10, some turning on XBass on the Eris, and some are a combination of everything. Then there’s Abyss with distortion indistinguishable from EEG during seizure but still sounds remarkably fine. I’m interested to hear your thoughts on what kind of data representation that (a) isn’t misleading and (b) shows the complete picture on the degree of EQ/SPL a user can expect from a given product.

For now, since we’re in the “Dark Ages”, I have no other choice but to look up ASR for distortion vs frequency graph. Let’s take the notorious Focal Clear for example: maximum 3% THD at 30 Hz at 104 dB SPL. For me, that means I can crank the bass to high heaven without a problem. For others, clipping at 114 dB SPL is a deal-breaker. For the HD 650, which doesn’t clip at 114 dB SPL (I don’t know what level of distortion that is, and that’s the flaw of ASR), but has maximum 5% THD at 30 Hz at 104 dB SPL. FR matters as well, since the HD 650 has worse bass extension compared to the Focal Clear, you have to EQ crank the bass considerably more to get the same bass level (i.e. more distortion for HD 650). So, at lower bass levels, the Focal Clear is better; at higher bass levels, the HD 650 is better (?) (hard for me to say since if it’s like 50% THD at that levels then it’s a moot point, but you guys have that data so you should know).

Having sniffed enough graphs, I’ve concluded that at my listening levels, I can EQ however the hell I want for any of my headphones, and I don’t own any planar or estat. I’m curious why @Resolve is quite reluctant to crank up the bass on dynamic headphones, since I don’t think you listen that loud anyway.

2. For Amplifiers:

2.1. Output Impedance:

This is fairly straightforward. It doesn’t require the fancy APx555 or a lot of time to measure. Yet, this is perhaps the most significant specification, especially for tube amps, that many manufacturers don’t specify. It’d be great for consumers if you guys can measure output impedance on every amplifiers headphones.com carries. I don’t see it for Feliks Audio amplifiers for example.

2.2. THD+N vs Power/Voltage Graphs for Various Loads:

I don’t care about SINAD, not one bit. I only care at which point does the amplifier clip or distort so bad that it’s unlistenable. ASR usually only does 300 Ohms and 33 Ohms for SE, and 50 Ohms for BAL, which is good enough for me. L7Audiolab does it a lot better. RME is the gold standard for manufacturer IMO; their datasheet and measurements are extremely detailed. Having cross-referenced RAI and ASR measurements, I’ve concluded that the Qudelix-5K can power the Susvara to at least 102 dB just fine. And according to specs of the Tungsten, the Qudelix-5K can also power the DS version to 98 dB just fine. By just fine I mean -87 dB THD+N. I couldn’t care less if it’s higher. From that aspect, I really appreciate the shear quantity of measurements pumped out on ASR. @GoldenSound mentioned this as well. As someone who understands which metric to pay attention to and which to ignore, ASR is valuable in helping me understand the capabilities and limitations of products I want to purchase, as well as just for my curiosity. For those who just look at the big numbers and rankings, well, I’m not too sure it’s quite as productive.

“Low-End Amplifiers Can’t Never Do High-End Headphones Justice”

I live in a place where Hi-Fi physical stores are everywhere. I’ve tried pretty much every high-end headphones at length under the sun, including the HE 1. I’m also a graph sniffer who EQ everything I own and try (aside from the HE 1 since I’m not gonna buy it anyway lol). The main thing I look for in headphones aside from ergonomics is the treble response, since I gave up EQing that a long time ago. (It changes every time I put on slightly differently so what’s the point?) The one thing I always carry with me is the Qudelix-5K, since I can adjust PEQ on my phone on the fly instead of a laptop.

Most sale reps thought I was insane when I said I wanted to use my Qudelix-5K to power the Focal Utopia. For reference, it can do 123 dB SPL (-87 dB THD+N), way beyond the clipping point of the Utopia. And those sale reps were audiophiles way in the weeds already. Their response was “Well, it might tell you that on the spec sheet, but it doesn’t sound like that.” If it was a decade ago, they might be right. Even high-end DAPs like Astell&Kern struggled with high current. So, even if it could technically provide enough power on the spec sheet, the distortion would be so high that you could hear it. That’d show up on the APx555; it’s just that no one did the measurements back then. On the other hand, for most decent modern amplifiers including the one in Qudelix-5K, the performance actually goes up the higher power it provides. Consumer DACs and amplifiers have evolved, but the stigma is still present.

I’m curious to know if what’s your experience with people’s resistance of using low-end amplifiers with high-end headphones.

Source Gear For People Who Aren’t Into Source Gear

I’m in the camp of “Even if I can ABX between two amplifiers or DACs, at no point do I care.” I think @Resolve said something along those lines if I remember correctly. Even if I don’t care about it’s sonic performance, I still need to buy a DAC and amplifier of some sort. Here are my criteria:

  • Not broken. Surprisingly not a given for many HiFi gears.
  • Enough gain. There was one film I watched that even gunshots were probably around -40 dB. Sure, I could increase the preamp in EQ APO but it felt so good turning that JDS Element knob all the way to the right.
  • Big knob. Because of that macro contrast.
  • Aesthetic. All Denafrips are ugly. Fight me.
  • Features. PEQ is the main one.

What’s your source gear recommendation for those who aren’t into source gear?

Here are my desktop picks:

  • Topping D50 III (PEQ, cheap)
  • JDS Element IV (PEQ, big knob)
  • RME Fireface UCX II (8 analog channels + 2 SPDIF channels 9-band PEQ, mic preamp)
  • RME ADI-2 DAC FS (2 channels 5-band PEQ, higher performance but again I don’t care)
  • Feliks Audio Euforia EVO (big knob, absolute stunning)
  • Ferrum WANDLA GSE (that HM1-like DSP is pretty cool, but I want it in software)

My end-game DAC is the Fireface UCX II ever since RME updated it with Room EQ.

My background is in Mechanical Design. I love @Mad_Economist 's take on headphones mechanical design. Sadly, many designs you see everyday started with the silhouette before functionality, even in the aerospace industry. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think many headphones manufacturers took the approach. Keep up the good work! Love the podcast!

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Typically its the ones with excursion limits, like the Focals. The thing is, if you’re not getting any clipping there after boosting the bass like crazy, I imagine it’s because you’re either not listening loud, or the musical content you’re listening to doesn’t have information in the sub bass and infrasonic regions (which is also totally reasonable). If you play that one track from Blade Runner 2049 however… I imagine you’ll be able to get it to clip, since they all seem to have an excursion limit that hits first below 20hz.

I think it’s just my listening levels. I saw that the Focal Clear distortion maxed out at around 30 Hz, so I tested tracks with sub-bass around there. Maybe the excursion limit problem exacerbates for tracks with a lot of infrasonic data. This is just my conjecture, but perhaps a high-pass filter could allow driver to clip at a higher SPL.

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No that part is definitely true, the excursion limit hits first in the lowest frequencies, certainly below 20hz. So it could be that you just have sensible music lol.

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To be clear, this is more applicable for older products. Your data representation in recent reviews is appropriately detailed and honestly looks quite stunning, but I understand that updating everything to the current standard is virtually impossible. Also, please let me how to SEO reviews from this site. For ASR, it’s basically just “product name” + “asr”. Thanks!

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That really is a good question, maybe just add “headphone show” or “headphones.com” to the query - at least for written reviews. We’re still in the process of like… figuring out what the new method actually looks like. It’s all just a stop gap until we get there, just didn’t want to continue with the single line paradigm.

Thank you guys for an amazing show! I really enjoy the long discussion format. Topic suggestions below:

  1. Guide/discussion on how to set up EQ for any headphone. My thinking here is for you to walk us, the audience, through your personal method or approach for dailing in EQ profiles for any headphone that comes in for testing/review. Maybe deep dive into the steps you go through be it test tracks, manual tone sweeps and how you prepare your EQs. Also explain your thoughts on your sound preference and if you like leaving some headphones close to their original sound or if you always sort of aim for a specific target curve. The topic is aimed to help the audience with a method/system on how to approach EQ.

  2. Best practices for EQing specific technicslities/effects. Ive been thinking about this topic since the episode when you breifly discussed how to EQ the hadenys/azurys to have more slam/punch with specific gains and dips in certain frequencies. You discussed this topic very hastely and i was left wanting more. I own a pair of hadenys and have owned the focal clears and concur in that the former is less punchy - id love to be able to amend the punchiness if possible with EQ. Youve mentioned several times that the soundstage effect can be enhanced by certain dips in a larger frequency range. I would really enjoy a longer discussion on the techniques you know relating to this topic!

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@GoldenSound related to your last video:

Feliks Audio - Envy Meisterwerk | Headphone Shop_gsMQ…&gclid=Cj0KCQiAr7C6BhDRARIsAOUKifhU3Dv8J7DzNx3zr_OE6C3fKzunuXOkdZw-9imE47LP-HHjkE81qtMaAqqYEALw_wcB&gbraid=0AAAAAD_a3XZrv2a5m4yaGR1R7SSSTxgNv

May I suggest Psycho acoustics in terms of actual musical content? Or maybe how some of those well researched effects interacts with the shape of FR of famous headphones?

I would be interested in how you balance your reviews and opinions of headphones/iems with the need to sell those headphones. You produced an explainer of how your marketing style needs to ultimately lead to selling something, which was good to see. To me, it is interesting that you can have not-so-great opinions of, say, the Meze 99 Classics and yet as of tonight they are the 28th best selling headphone/iem on your website. Do you find that negative publicity helps sell headphones/iems? How much does a positive review impact a headphone/iem and/or does it provide a brand halo for the brand offering the item? Do you have an idea that “x” number of Noise Floor viewers = “y” headphones sold, or “z” number of registered users yields “y” headphones sold? No need to share details, just curious if you are able to see the give-and-take between what you think, what you say, and what ultimately sells?

Thanks,
Kevin

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To help focus the recommendation type video, how about the following scenario. Your place is robbed and your entire collection of headphones, DACs, and amps are going. What do each of you personally buy to build back up? Perhaps do this with insurance giving you 0, $500, or $1000 (you can add your own cash).

Twist on that scenario- which one bit of gear that you currently have would you have miraculously had in another location, so that it’s not stolen with the rest?

So - what do you really value most? Knowing ball you know now, how would you personally do it if you had to all over again?

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Another suggestion- recommended paths to EQ.

  • Physically how? PC and phone software vs built into DAC options (it honestly surprises me given the emphasis on EQ from you all that there’s not more coverage of this on the channel. It also surprises me just how few DAC/amps have PEQ baked in. Topping, Quedelix, and Wiim are all I can think of, but it’s enough to cover as an option]
  • Pros and cons of how to arrive at the actual values. AutoEQ vs oratory settings vs GEQ sliders vs sine sweeps vs by ear w music, etc.

A few more for you -

EQ Showdown
You each take the same make/model headphone and EQ it as if it were going to be your own that you’d actually use for music. What curve do you come up with and how did you get there? Next, you swap EQ curves and critique each others’ / how you, with your HRTF hear the others’ curves. Do this for several headphones.

As a challenge, and maybe after doing this several times, see if you can EQ a headphone for one of the other people. Or, for a fun bonus round, pass your desired track through all the EQs, along with oratory1990s and AutoEQs, save the WAV files and then each of you try to pick out, blindly, which track is which EQ profile. [This isn’t just a fun game to play, it’s something that will let us all understand the variation in our combined HRTF and preference and showcase ways of doing EQ. For whatever headphones you settle in on, listeners of the show will have several profiles to try out or mix and match. We’ll also learn how your desired FR lines up with or doesn’t with ours.]

EQ Challenge
A lot came up in that a recent thread that can be handled well in the group format. One idea is just how well can you make headphone/IEM A sound like B? Please don’t do the “can I make a $10 headphone/IEM sound like a $1000” flavor of this. Maybe use this as a chance to spend some time with the Fio FT1 Pro. As above, each try to do this and evaluate the others’ efforts on your head and ears. What aspects worked? What ones didn’t? Did what “B” was “known for” (soundstage, resolution, slam, je ne sais quoi, actually come across?

Time and [a word]
OK, this should be a stand-alone, but I think the discussion format of the podcast would really help as well – discussion both amongst each other and discussion with the audience. Explain the relationship between FR and time-domain analyses and give examples of going back and forth. Show that the word above is “frequency” (OK, yes, I’m a prog-rock guy). One of you can play devil’s advocate here so you can get into when they’re not synonymous (but how that’s not something we hit).

What can’t we hear?
Live, blind ABX testing of music samples with and without various issues. OK, live ABX testing sounds like watching paint dry, but one of you could mute the stream and spend a few minutes on one issue (e.g., distortion) doing a half dozen trials. The others could have done more trials of that one ahead of time and you can pool your results. Discuss what you heard and how easy it was to hear. Move beyond distortion though. Add different small-magnitude EQ shifts to left vs. right channel to simulate poor driver matching, test peaks vs dips in FR across the spectrum, look at group delay vs. FR. Sure, most things have been done in research papers, but a) those often aren’t read, b) they’re less often understood, and c) “but that’s in a lab not the real world” is a common reaction.

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What headphones have you changed your opinion about the most?

Did you go from a negative to a positive view or vice versa?

What aspect of the headphones made you change your view?

Let’s see. Maybe a review of The Headphone Show and an explanation of why ZMF fanboys don’t even mention the brand in their best headphones of 2024, and how GoldenSound thinks DACs and tube amps are the best headphones.

I’m just a troublemaker I know.

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ZMF didn’t release many new headphones this year. Bokeh open both myself and Resolve were not fans of.
Caldera closed is great though.

I figured that since we had three people giving headphone recs (and since my views weren’t starkly different anyway), being “The DAC Man” I should probably focus on the source gear. Otherwise people would complain that we had no 2024 source gear picks

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I would like to see/hear a meet with Zach and Dan chatting about headphone design. They are both designing very different headphones but both are for me the kings of closed back headphones. Just a relax Christmas special chat about their philosophies and differences in headphone designs. Both are such cool “dudes” I would very much enjoy an episode with them.

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