Tone control vs. Tube amps, which do you prefer and why?

Amplifiers
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The only reasonable inexpensive pure tube amps, which is really the only way you’re going to get anything approaching a “rich tube sound”, that I can recommend are the EC ZDT Jr and the Bottlehead Crack (which is a kit). And as we’ve already covered, they’re not at their best with low-impedance or planar cans.

They’re not bad, they’re just not at a their best.

Tube-hybrids will have some tube flavor, but generally use solid-state power/output stages, which means it’s just some flavor. The real “rich tube sound” really comes mostly from the power tubes in a pure tube amplifier, and those are not present in a hybrid design. The Lyr 3 isn’t going to give you a “rich tube sound” either.

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So it sounds like The Focal Elear And hopefully the Hifiman Ananda Cans when I get them continue to pair well with my smsl 200thx Amp and then my 6XX can be played with the Eddie JR and maybe if I want another sound for that amp add a different pair of headphones such as HD800 to pair with the Eddie JR at a later time Does that sound like a solid investment/listening strategy?

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That sounds like a reasonable plan but with one caution: like turntables, tube amps can be a rabbit hole within the Wonderland that this hobby is. Tube rolling can lead to option anxiety that might have you wishing you took the blue pill.

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Lol sounds like fun!

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I wouldn’t use the word “investment” around audio gear, unless it’s for something genuinely boutique, hard to get, and that consistently sells for more than it costs new, with a solid history of appreciating over time.

“Money pit” is frequently a more appropriate phrase.

Especially if tubes are involved …

When it comes to buying audio gear, and planning purchases, I’m generally of the opinion that one should figure out where one wants to wind up, and then take the fewest number of reasonable steps to get there. It’s much less expensive that way, though some intermediate steps along the way do help with figuring out what that “end” or “goal” point is.

The path you suggest will work, but not knowing your goals etc. for the longer term I can’t say if it’s the path I would take myself or not.

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That is fair lol! My goals right now are to not spend an enormous amount of money and obtain the best quality sound I can for my budget. Until a few months ago I was only listening from my phone and a crappy pair of beats headphones so I am heading in the right direction now and loving music like when I really first started discovering it as a teenager.

Honestly I have been in the home theater surround sound game for awhile and have a pretty legit system that has been terrific for my movie/music viewing pleasure for many years. Now I just want a great desktop setup that allows me to really hear both clean audio when editing video as well as enjoy music while I edit photos and work. I am married with a 1 year old so budget for me is important, so you could say I don’t want the best but I don’t want the worst. I am also still learning and discovering right now, so as I dive deeper into this hobby my needs will likely change some.

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I have not heard that, but I’m not concerned, because I have tried to develop good habits regarding headphone connection. Like following a particular sequence when starting up. And turning down volume before pulling plugs or pushing in jacks. As the Lyr 3 is not portable, I do not anticipate the IEM disaster I had when a wire caught on a stair rail. Made worse by having hot tea in hand when it happened.

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Funnily enough, I’ve been trying to wean myself off EQ a bit lately. It’s too easy to constantly fiddle with. The way that audio is, at different times, with different moods and circumstances, I won’t enjoy something today which I enjoyed just yesterday. Having EQ available makes it too easy to tinker around trying to recapture yesterday’s magic, when I should really just get out of my own head and enjoy the music. Consequently, I’ve gotten rid of my DT 1990 and LCD2C, both of which were headphones that I could never fully enjoy without at least some EQ. I do still EQ my ZS 10 Pro because it just sounds so good EQ’d, and oddly I haven’t felt the need to tinker with that particular preset.

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Money pit is 100% correct, my current Tube for Dynamics is a heavy modded SET

I spent more modding and buying tubes on it than the base unit cost. (Though I had labor costs in there, but I’d previously experimented with tubes and that too was a cash sink hole) An yea I was pretty content with the changes I got from the Power Tubes actually, they had more impact than I was expecting coming from my experince with only Hybrid Designs

Here’s a thought, have we talked about running Tube Pre’s into Solid State Amplification?

I’m considering getting a Saga to feed into a First Watt Speaker amp as a semi-perminant solution to driving stuff like HE 6 and K1000 [more so K1000 as I still like it more than My Sphere as a compliment/counter part to HD 800 SDR]

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70

Been there, done that, Dynaco PAS-2 into something by HK. But only for a week or two. Lived with the opposite (just like the Motaur sometimes wants legs on the bottom and motorcycle on top). PAT-4 into Mark IIIs. That was a nice setup.

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I agree with what everyone else has been saying, tubes and EQ are completely different things with different purposes. EQ just adjusts the relative VOLUME level of certain frequencies. Tubes can change the entire presentation of the sound space and how you experience music. Both have their uses and both are just preference things.

I also agree that tubes are a rabbit hole and really something I only recommend to hobbyists. If this isn’t a hobby and you are searching for “the best sound” you can get for a given budget, I recommend a well measuring solid state. Tubes are for when you want to tinker and explore the limits of how you can alter sound to your preferences. And on the same hand I also think they are for people that are really spending a lot of time doing focused listening. If all you do is throw on background music while you work, you will almost certainly not even tell the difference between a tube amp and solid state. There’s a ton of threads of people that complain about not hearing differences. A lot of times it is because they are listening for volume changes like EQ, but tubes are far more subtle and something you feel over time and only experience really listening to gear more than just music. And furthermore it usually requires well mastered music and genres that are recorded with a sense of space and use real instruments. Overly produced, compressed top 40 electronic hip hop stuff gains very little from using tubes in my experience. I always suggest people getting into tubes start cheap, buy used, and decide if this is something you want to really pursue. I also think it helps to really understand your preferences and know what you are trying to achieve. If you don’t even know what things you like then chasing tube gear can be a bit of a mess and usually spending money on better/different headphones is a safer bet. Tubes are great when you have a favorite headphone and you know you like what it does, but you just want to enhance some specific trait like smooth out the treble attack or add more space between notes. If your complaint is like it isn’t bassy enough or soundstage is small, EQ or different headphones are typically the solution. Something to consider for people wondering if tube amps are the next step for them.

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I hear ya. EQ can sometimes be very distracting looking for that sweet spot.

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I was just going to edit my last post but I realized I never tried removing a post so I was going to see what happened lol if I removed it and posted a new post.

What I was going to ask is If I can get the little dot mk3 non hybrid model, all 4 tubes for $200 not on drop with a 2 year warranty would it be worth trying it out? I wondered for the non hybrid MK3 model with 4 tubes if it was any good and if you get any of that rich tube sound from the 6XX? I know it wasn’t recommended so far from anyone so not sure if that’s because it hasn’t been listened to or if it just wasn’t really any good.

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I hadn’t heard a stock Little Dot Mk3 until recently.

But now that I have, I would have to say it was not an experience I would care to repeat.

It was noisy, with audible hum at moderate volume, it isn’t very clean sounding - overly thick and slow rather than rich/tubey, and it manages to shift the frequency response of even the HD6XX due to its unusually high output impedance.

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76

Continuing the discussion from Tone control vs. Tube amps, which do you prefer and why?:

For myself, definitely tubes, this enters you into the ‘world of tubes’ and to the ‘very addictive’ tube rolling aspect. Lots of fun hunting down tubes and hearing how different tubes sound in your gear.

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Ok I will skip it then and wait for the JR to drop like we talked about originally thank you @Torq!

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I will be listing my Jr for sale potentially if you are interested…I just have to find the proper volume knob, pretty sure I put it in its original box…:thinking:

I have a couple sets of tubes for it as well…it’s mostly just decoration at this point on my audio shelf as I have “better” tube amps on hand. Which I’m not gonna lie…I kind of like it up there…I’ll let you know first if I do end up listing it =)

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Sounds good! Definitely interested. Thanks man!

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80

I just purchased a new Hafler HA75 hybrid tube/SS headphone amp/preamp (link below). My main reason for doing so is to use it as a preamp, where my very dynamic & revealing passive monitors + sub will presumably convey the sonic influence of its tube buffer circuit. I’ll also play with the various unusual sound-shaping controls.
Headphone listening would be secondary.

Then again, if it turns into a sonic winner, I’ll keep it & use it for everything.

https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-hafler-ha75

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81

So I used the Loki today and yesterday on my audio system between my Chord Qutest and Cayin HA-300 tube amp with an Audeze LCD-3 Fazor. Tubes are 2x Psvane Acme 300b with about 60 hours and 2x Psvane CV181-T II with about 90 hours. I’m running Morrow Audio RCA cables between the Qutest and Loki, and between the Loki and HA-300. Both cables have around 200 hours.

Throughout the listening session, I keep fiddling with the knobs, as well as the by-pass to see if it’s really transparent, as well as how much to add. The tone changes do work as advertised, adding as needed smoothly on each knob, as well as sounding exactly the same when you zero it all out vs by-pass.

That being said, I keep having this feeling that the mids are now a bit more forward and less “in the space”, the large soundstage shrunk a bit, and that something seems a bit off with female vocals at times.

So I A/B with the system with the Loki completely removed, and I was right! The female vocal got a bit smoother and there’s less grain in the mid-treble range when notes are sustained. Additionally, some of the instrument separation that I lost came back, too.

Well, so much for transparent signal!

Granted, it’s all about system synergy, and the HA-300 (especially with the resolving Psvane ACME 300bs) is known for being sensitive on what’s plugged in both ends. Perhaps it just accentuated the graininess of the Loki that would’ve otherwise been missed with a less resolving system.

Tracks listened in 16-bit 44Khz or 24-bit 48-192Khz FLAC on Amazon Music HD for the A/B test:

Heize - Falling Leaves are Beautiful
Polo & Pan - Bakara
Katie - Thinking About You
Heze - But, I am Your Buddy
Almost Here - 360 Degree tricks
Alexandre Desplat (Isle of Dogs OST) - Jupiter & Oracle
Arne Domnerus - Limehouse Blues (Live)
Bambi - River Run
Mariah Carey - Fourth of July

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