Tone control vs. Tube amps, which do you prefer and why?

General DAC/Amp/DAP Discussion
41

You can find the earlier discussion HERE

This was my search after my old amp died. If you follow it, you will see excellent points from @Torq, @TylersEclectic, @I_want_all_the_tacos, @pwjazz, @generic and others. If my budget were tighter, I probably would have gone with the Atom. Solid state, and with adequate power. I’ve found the HD-6XX really wants more power than Sennheiser lets on to sound it’s best. Not surprisingly, this is something that @Torq told me, but I had to find out for myself.

It’s like the great Will Rogers observed.

There is the one who will learn by reading about it.
There are the few who will learn by observing others.
And there are the many that must pee on the electric fence for themselves.

6 Likes
42

The Lyr 3 is a tube-hybrid and is fine with all types of headphones. In fact the original Lyr was developed for hard to drive planars.

It’s really only pure-tube designs that need more considered matching.

3 Likes
43

Thanks I just read all of the thread!

1 Like
44

Thank you for your guidance.

2 Likes
45

Started to reread your search for an amp from July posting. You just reminded me of the ifi DSD bl I have. Now I have an excuse to wait and not buy an amp for awhile.:grin: Okaay. I promise to research amps anyway.:wink:

2 Likes
46

Schiit Mjolnir2 is another good option and uses various tubes, some of which are readily available at a very reasonable cost. 6BZ7, 6BQ7A and 6DJ8 family tubes.

2 Likes
47

Thanks :sweat_smile: I may be researching for awhile.

1 Like
48

Tubes primarily, though I use HEAVY EQ and sometimes also tubes in my Speaker Systems

I find EQ on Headphone systems to be distracting as others have mentioned, I only have my Gym set up Eq’d which is a parametric EQ via RockBox for my HD 25-1 II

Otherwise I just have different amps/tubes/headphones for what ever I’m in the mood for. Might be downsizing soon though after some upgrades

2 Likes
49

Awesome! Yeah I am thinking I need to try at least one Tube Amp, it seems as if my Ananda headphones coming next week will be best with a Tube Hybrid amp, but my Elear and 6XX could pair well with a straight tube amp so I am doing some homework.

2 Likes
50

So on another sometimes overly serious forum they are claiming that the LYR 3 has been known to blow up some lower impedance headphones due to the lack of DC circuitry protection have you heard of anything like that?

51

Yea I’ve two some what modded tubes now

a Single End Triode [SET] I reserve for only my dynamics and a Hybrid I use for my Planars [like Aeon 2C atm]

I’ll be replacing both hopefully with a DHT Amp here soon

1 Like
52

Elear would also do better with a hybrid tube amp…really only your 6xx would pair well with a proper tube amp or OTL amp. But some tube amps have ohm selection dealios but, they can be hit or miss and usually outside what you hinted to as your budget…such as the Cayin Ha-1a mkii (I love mine)

1 Like
53

Yeah I checked that one out on Headphones.com and it looks pretty sweet. It is a bit out of my budget for now unless it ever goes on sale. It’s also massive! I was hoping to get something for my desktop. The LYR 3 sounds fairly promising as an option but I am reading on another very analytical forum it doesn’t have DC protection built in and has been known to “blow up” low impedance headphones, however this forum has very little love for Schiit products so I am not sure what to believe.

54

My answer is: tubes, every time.

But the logic of this question presumes that tubes act as some kind of tone control–ie, that they alter/adjust/enhance tonality.

I have long experience w/big tube amps in 2-channel systems, and have had a couple tube amps in headphone audio. IMO what tubes do the sound is way more complicated (and potentially beneficial) than any tonal changes:

1 - I’ve always found the biggest different in tube sound to be the enhanced dimensionality of notes, a greater sense of realness. Notes sound like things occurring in space, with a beginning & a decay. Notes become more palpable, less like blips on a FC curve.

2 - Tubes also depict space itself (the recording venue, subtle acoustic cues as to position of instruments, singers, walls, floor, ceilings, audience if any) with far greater naturalism & fidelity than SS. There are always exceptions, but generally, tubes will smoke SS in this regard

3 - Yes, there are tonal changes with tubes, but they’re often rather subtle, perhaps not at all what you might expect if you think of tubes as EQ filters. I’ve certainly heard tubes that sounded warm up top, mid-bassy but lower in dynamics/impact in the bass, with big/huge mids, etc (classic tube sound). But tubes can also be used in an amp “voiced” to be neutral; in these cases, the designer declines to use tubes as EQ filter–but makes full use of their 3D palpability & ambient realism.

Example: I have the humble but very nice OTL, the Woo WA3. I’ve heard many headphones on it (it works very well with high impedance HPs, as you’d expect–but also very well with planars). I can’t ever remember hearing a headphone on the WA3 and finding the sound to be warm, syrupy, slow, bass-shy, any of those things. Instead, what I typically hear is a rather calm, controlled, neutral/unhyped sound that seems very dimensional & real.

6 Likes
55

The only thing I’ve read about that amp allegedly killing any headphones has been a single account, that happened to the guy involved twice (the second time with warranty replacements of both headphones and amp), and that has been reposted, over and over, in various places, as if it was somehow representative of a latent issue.

And that failure wasn’t down to DC or lack of DC protection, based on how it was described (“rushing sound, like a tube failure, then highly distorted, “tin can” sound”). A DC-induced driver failure would be a quick “pop” (at most) and then silence.

If there was more than the one report (rather than just one, repeatedly posted) or it wasn’t an identical, non-DC-issue sounding failure, for it had occurred for multiple people (not just the same guy, twice - as that points to other potential issues), it might be enough to make me ask Schiit about it. As it is, sounds like non-issue to me and the usual anti-something echo-chamber internet nonsense.

Now, using a 9W amplifier to drive Focal Clear, absent also having some other actually HARD to drive cans, doesn’t seem like a particularly good idea to me. You’d be better off trading that power for other traits and using a different amplifier.

LOTS of headphone amplifiers lack DC protection.

Anyway, tube-hybrids don’t sound nearly as “tube like” as actual, pure, tube amps. Sadly most inexpensive pure-tube amps are not great matches with planar cans or low-impedance dynamics.

7 Likes
56

Annnnd that ladies and gentlemen is my tube dilemma. Whether tis nobler in the minds of men (or women) to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous tube incompatibility or boldly go where no @nooac has gone before and buy a complete tube amp.:thinking: Ladies and gentlemen of the headphone community the farce rests… For the moment. May the farce be with you!:crazy_face:

3 Likes
57

If you find the SP200THX drives your Sens adequately, one thing you could try and which @Torq suggested to me as an inexpensive way way to add a bit of 2nd harmonic distortion to get the qualities described by @Pharmaboy, is a tube buffer, like the iFi iTube 2. As the iTube does not have a bypass, you can connect the XLR outputs of your DAC to the amp and connect the iTube using the RCA connectors. That way you can bypass the iTube by using the RCA/XLR input switch.

3 Likes
58

Yeah that’s what I am finding the more I read about the subject. The cost of the LYR 3 if I add the phono preamp is $629 then by the time I add a Dac we are around $800 for the LYR 3. Are there more entry level options That would give me a rich tube sound for a lower price point and work with my low to high efficiency headphones?

1 Like
59

I really want to get Bottlehead Crack for my 650’s. Regarding EQ, I do equalize a little but don’t go real deep like @pwjazz does. I like to add a little extra spice to my treble mostly. I would also like to get myself a Loki too. There again I would forever be fiddling with it and I may take up too much of my attention in the end.

4 Likes
60

That’s a cool idea, I will check that out!