Very good points. I guess it makes sense to just provide people with something, make sure that something isn’t too expensive, and assume they’ll roll everything out anyway.
I started with the Prof special, since it was a “curated” combination. After listening to that for a bit I swapped the JJs in just to say I tried them. They got about 10 minutes because, well, they weren’t very good. Then I tried Zach’s NOS set (which was also part of the sale from the Prof). I liked that combo a lot. Then I started switching out individual tubes to try to figure out what they did to the sound and landed on the power tubes from Zach’s NOS set (Baldwin by Raytheon - according to Zach), and the rectifier and input from the Prof set (La Radiotechnique 12AU7 and AEL EZ81).
Justin confirmed to me that I can substitute 5u4g/ga/gb tubes for the 5ar4. The 5u4 tubes seem to be much cheaper. Hopefully DNA confirms you can do the same for your amp.
I haven’t experimented with impedances yet. Today was my first full day of listening (yesterday I had back to back conference calls all day at work) so I decided to just listen to music without too much tinkering. Except for the tube-replacement of course, but I couldn’t listen with that JJ tube in place. Not trying to be a tube snob, since the other stock tubes are still there and it sounds great.
I’ve been using the 32 ohm for my Stellia and 100 ohm for my Verite and Aeolus.
Your story of the pursuit of a different, better tube really made me smile! I have done very similar things as well! Talk about coming full circle
Also, I really enjoyed the essay you wrote. I have long suspected something along those lines was the case, and I have fallen down both the wine and audio rabbit holes at different points in my life. I think these pursuits are kind of like searching for the Holy Grail, or trying to find a transcendent experience in whatever avenue (like audio) you are involved with. Thanks for your thoughtful writing.
I’d be interested to hear what you try next in you Lyr 3, I have the same amp, and find the thought of tube rolling a bit daunting, and I don’t want to go crazy with it. If you try something you like, post it!
That’s great! Your ear is good if you can tell it sounds the same. By the way, I also have a Lyr 3, and would be happy to lend you a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB if you want to try it.
If you do want to try any others, I have a few that I’d be happy to send for you to play with. Message me if interested.
I’m ready to put in an order with Brent Jessee for my Nautilus tubes, based on a conversation with Justin yesterday:
Sylvania 5751 blackplate, as a replacement for the 12AX7. Justin raved about the sound quality of these, and said that they have lower gain than a 12AX7.
Mazda 12AU7. Justin didn’t recommend this but I’m curious about how a European tube will sound, and I have 2 amps that will take this tube, so why not.
Tung Sol 6550 made for other companies. These are a lot cheaper than the Tung Sol labeled “holy grail” 6550.
I’m still trying to choose between an Amperex/Miniwatt 5AR4/GZ34 or a much cheaper Tung Sol 5U4G and I had a question about the difference in sound between a 5AR4 and a 5U4G. I saw this post just now by @bpcarb but I don’t understand what “sag” is.
Thanks Brandon @bpcarb , welcome to the new (possibly hijacked) tube rolling thread. We thought it would be good to have one place for people to post their tube impressions, so that when doing research, we don’t have to hunt through various amp threads.
No rush, I can hold on for a few days if necessary.
You bet @PaisleyUnderground. A one-stop thread for tube impressions is a good idea.
These two reviews have a good discussion of tube rolling for the Nautilus and Bigger Ben (also applicable to the Mogwai SE, which shares the same lineage).
@PaisleyUnderground Depending on amp decisions I am trying to make soon, I can probably find a way to send you these bad boys to try out, if interested. Maybe we can do something like a tube exchange.
I’m looking at something called “5AR4/GZ34 Early type Amperex white label, or Amperex made for Miniwatt, D getters, made in Holland.” which I think are the non-metal base version of what you have. A lot less expensive than, and from what I’ve read, not as good as the metal base. But at $250 vs $850, I’d be happy to get the cheaper tube if it’s close in terms of quality. I know you were lucky enough to get a great deal on lightly used tubes.
Or if I can determine that I’d prefer a 5U4G, I can get an RCA or Tung Sol for $59 or less.
I’ve had success with Baldwin 12au7 (same as ecc82), both replacing a JJ 12ax7. I have a green label made by Sylvania in my Pendant. I can’t speak to the difference between that and the JJ specifically, but as part of the collection of “Zach” NOS tubes, the amp sounds neutral and fast.
I mentioned the Baldwin yellow label (made by Raytheon) 12au7 above, where it added warmth compared to the JJ, bringing the Nautilus back to neutrality from the tube equivalent of the South Pole.
I’ve also ordered a Mazda 12au7 and a Mullard ecc82 from Brent Jessee, in order to get 2 different sounding tubes from the Baldwins, and will try all 4 of those tubes. Both of those were reasonably priced, but I’m almost hoping I like one of the Baldwins the best because they are even cheaper, and I’ll buy a bunch of those as backups.
My understand ecc82 is an input tube and the ecc99 is a driver tube. Is most of the sound changed from the input tube? ecc99 is pretty limited, there is a gold pin version of the ecc99.
My limited understanding, based on what Justin and a couple of tube sellers have told me, is that I should focus on the input tube (ecc82/12au7) first because that will have the biggest impact. Switching the input tube on the Nautilus did indeed have a huge impact on the sound, but obviously my experience is very limited.
I’ve ordered some power and rectifier tubes too, so I’ll try different combinations.
BTW, if you’re looking for matched pairs, @ProfFalkin has some highly rated 12au7’s at good prices: FS - Tubes!
Wow, that is an amazing list @jb77 . I suppose you have Brent Jesse on speed dial?
I know it is an old post, but I started at the top.
Does your Telefunken ECC801S have any other notation on it? I got one recently and it is also marked 6201 USA. It sounds amazing but not sure what the hell it really is…?
Hmm, I believe the Telefunken top shelf stuff is NOS from Germany, including a diamond mark at the bottom between the pins. This isn’t to say that 6201 USA does not sound good.
