I wish I could agree with the two of you. But I think people are often just as apt to see what they want in the measurements as anything else.
To return to one of Lothar_Wolf’s points… I can certainly understand some of the loathing of Beyerdynamic by the Headphones.com staff and other audiophiles. But I (also) don’t really see the point in professional reviewers ganging up on them, or repeatedly and sometimes mercilessly bashing them.
I had listened to the Beyers many times, and was well aware of their reputation for brightness before I finally pulled the trigger on a pair of 250-ohm DT-770’s during the pandemic, for example. But there weren’t that many other good options in closed-backs at that time. And it was increasingly hard to find any of them, with all the supply chain issues.
This isn’t really the Headphones.com market, but for someone looking for a good pair of beaters, the DT-770 has some good qualities. They aren’t really neutral (imho), but they are affordable, comfortable, durable, have passable driver symmetry and distortion, good bass and treble extension, replaceable parts, and washable pads (though I’ve resewn all of mine). And I like having a higher impedance model in my setup… So there are some pluses to them that help to balance out some of the negatives in the FR (which is also somewhat fixable with EQ).
Would I rather have had a more neutral sound sig? Answer: Yes I would!.. But some compromises are necessary with just about any purchase you make. The choices at that time were pretty much limited to the AKG K371 or K553, AT M50X, Shure SRH840, Sony MDR-7506, Senn HD 280 Pro, or something worse. After listening to and trying most of these, I think I probably made the right choice for my needs at the time.
The stores in my area were also continually running out of all of the above. So I also got an M50X as a backup, and ended up selling it. I think I actually preferred the sound quality of AKG’s 50mm titanium-coated drivers over the Beyer drivers. But there were other aspects of the AKGs that deterred me from getting another pair.
I actually think the 770 is good, and regularly recommend them. The 880 I think is also reasonable for that kind of sound. It’s just some of the crazy excessive treble ones that we’re typically not fans of.
The DT-770 has treble peaks too imo. And I’m not asking anyone to suger-coat that. I certainly don’t.
I’m just hoping for a little more balance in the opinions on these and other headphones that are routinely bashed and ridiculed by the community as a whole.
If the headphones are an unmitigated disaster in ever respect though, then by all means, bash away! I don’t think the DT770, 880 or 990 generally fall into this category though.
Yea I feel you on this lol. My set-up isn’t quite this… advanced yet but now when I’m shopping for desks it’s all about how I can accommodate as much gear as possible.
Funnily enough, I recently had a conversation with two of the three business owners mentioned above.
One of the things we discussed was working together in some form.
As, for example, they added new products to their portfolio based on my recommendations and the personal experience they subsequently had with them.
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I’m too old to open my own business and unfortunately too physically weak and unstable, and therefore already retired, but I can certainly imagine working here and there on a freelance basis, with individual time management, as a customer advisor or in service.
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If someone loves what they do, because it’s anyhow their hobby, then you approach the project with enthusiasm.
It would be interesting to see what the DT990’s FR looks like after compensation with HBK’s 1/3-octave 5128 DF curve.
It’s been awhile since I listened to a pair, but my recollection is that it was bright up top. And a bit sucked out in the mids, which some like. And although its FR left something to be desired, it was one of the better-built and more affordable/accessible open-back dynamic headphones for quite a long time.
Have you or listen_r tried compensating the Harman curve with the new KEMAR DF btw?
Listened to the latest Noise Floor live stream. And 3+ hours of reviewers reviewing other reviewers, and talking about their own reviews = not exactly my thing, I guess. I think you need to look at both reviews you agree with, and also, at least occasionally, ones you do not though. Otherwise you potentially risk getting stuck in a continuous feedback loop.
I’m also not sure I agree with listen_r’s idea of reviewers consulting with other reviewers on their reviews, because that also seems like it would promote too much “group think”, which is not that useful.
Reviewers are your average people just like the rest of us.
Only difference is whether our opinions are out in the public adorned with pretty effects or not. No matter how well they present you with “measurable results”, data are only ever as good as the people who interpret it.
And besides, it’s going to be difficult to find a person opining on products who a) have the same musical taste as you; b) have similar hearing capabilities; c) similar ear + ear canal physiology if you’re searching for IEMs; d) similar linguistic backgrounds, and maybe in turn cultural differences; and the list goes on.
I stopped reading/watching reviews ever since I found myself filling my head with information and whenever the opportunity comes around to try the products in person for the first time, they all became processes of verifying and confirming the acoustic characteristics from what I’ve gathered on the internet.
That awe-inspiring magical moment that flooded my mind, the frisson skin responses, chills down the spine… those emotional effects I felt that dragged me down to this rabbit hole all got lost.
I really pity the current gen and pretty much most of North Americans having to rely on the middle-men force-feeding their opinions onto their viewers instead of getting to experience things first hand.
Because seriously. I would’ve never laid my hands on my triple. fi 10 pro and JH Rosie if it weren’t for the fact that I tried them in person. Especially the Rosie. All of the Siren Series up until then were all too big for my ears and couldn’t even get to give them a proper audition since they just wouldn’t fit.
Appreciate the reply, Delsonta. And sorry I haven’t had a chance to try your favorite IEMs. But I am strictly over-ear. And that’s what gets me off.
I’m not sure if reviewers are average people btw. But agree that data is only as good as the interpreter and the collector.
I’m also one of those poor shmucks who happens to think that a good pair of headphones can be pretty universal. And can sound good on most people, regardless of their personal HRTFs, canals, music, hearing, culture, etc. That may not apply as much to in-ear monitors though.
I believe there’s a right and wrong way to tune a headphone and loudspeaker. And don’t put much stock in personalization.
I also wish I had the opportunity to listen to more good headphones and speakers than I currently do. And think that would be fun and interesting. I’ve had the chance to do a fair amount in the past though. So I don’t feel too bad about it. And I’m ok leaning on some of the other experienced opinions out there and the measurements to help in sifting some of the wheat from the chaff.
Interpreting measurements is difficult though. And it’s taken quite a bit of time, and trial and error to understand and correlate them better to my own subjective experiences. I believe it can pay dividends in the long run though. Because it certainly has for me.
Personally, I treat audio gear the same way I treat musical instruments.
Things took a turn for the better when I shifted gears in that direction.
But then again, I guess this method only works for experienced musicians who know the process of choosing the one that suits them best…
I never really cared for trying to replicate the “artist’s intent” (whatever that means really… you don’t know what the artist really intended unless you were present at the recording studio).
Let’s say you were able to replicate the artist’s intent. Then what? XD
I mean, if it suits your preferred sound that’s great, but what if it doesn’t?
The only thing I focus on is whether the audio gear and how you set it up enhances the emotional experience you got from the music you’re listening to. It’s just like sprinkling spices to your dinner plate. Everybody’s palate is different, so might as well tailor it to best suit your preferences.
[Edit]
All of a sudden, the severe lack of selection and choice in North America starts to make sense.
We will probably have to agree to disagree on this. Because I’ve been down the subjectivist rabbit hole. And the only process that consistently yields the experience I desire and crave from music is when the audio gear is correctly tuned and set up.
For someone who has been in the field for a long time, that may seem like a trivial process. And too low of a bar. There are so many ways of messing that process up though, that it’s frequently a challenge for people just to get to that point. Especially if they’re new to audio.
If you are somehow able to go beyond that, and improve the sound even more to your ears by some other means, then more power to you.
Problem with reviews combined with the lack of brick n’ mortar shops I find is that people will only flock to products that’s “trendy” which we all know that gratification levels degrade in an instant as more and more products get introduced into the market.
People will never get to experience serendipitous discoveries either.
I mean, reviewers can do their thing. They can state their impressions and opinions to their heart’s content. It’s the severe lack of brick n’ mortar stores that’s the biggest problem I find. Consumers can’t tell whether the sound signature being described by reviewers is how they will hear it until they buy the product, and by then it’s kinda too late since prior information primes you into experiencing it that way. And first impressions… are quite difficult to overcome.
Not everyone wants to become an expert in headphones or speakers. They just want something that will do the job well. Reviews (good ones) can help in narrowing that down a bit. I also find that they expose me to many new products. If you have the time and inclination though, then I think you should listen to and try out as many different products as you can.
I used to enjoy going to my local music shops, for example, and trying out all their different headphones and speakers. Listening conditions were not ideal. But it helped with the narrowing-down process. Then I’d buy a few of the best candidates, and try them out (preferably together since audio memory is poor) more thoroughly on my own gear at home.
I haven’t been fortunate enough to attend any of the conferences where people listen to different headphones. I will listen to some of the feedback though for such events.
I think Headphones.com had a loaner program at one point btw. But I believe that was discontinued. And not sure where it stands at the moment.
I don’t think the DT770, 880 or 990 generally fall into this category though.
Still, that’s one helluva hifi cocoon. 
