ZMF Caldera Discussion

[Kennyboy]

A Utopia OG used and an Atrium sounds like a good combo! Oh, but that limited edition Atrium in red may be worth the extra bucks to me.

[PaisleyUnderground]

@Kennyboy

I live on the Virginia Peninsula in southeast VA. Not exactly near any Canjam locations. So I rely on reviews and impressions of others.

That’s a shame, because it’s so hard to know what you actually want until you try it, and spending several thousand dollars to discover that you don’t really want more detail (for arguments sake) is an expensive lesson. The Caldera and Atrium are both wonderful IMO, but so different that you really need to try them to figure our which one to buy.

I know this is the Caldera thread, and I’m going off topic a bit, but if you’re dipping your toe in the TOTL water for the first time, perhaps your best bet is to buy a non-ZMF headphone, such as a Utopia 2020, from a place that has a good return policy (like headphones.com). And I say this as a huge ZMF fan.

[chrisnyc75]

@Doug_Dame

Without having heard either one, I have developed a rather fatalistic view on the question of which one would I prefer, the Atrium or the Caldera. Such a difficult and nuanced decision. Or prediction.

This is always the problem in the “summit-fi” territory. It’s rare that we have the occasion to audition even one, much less two or three, summit-fi products to compare. The good news is Caldera & Atrium residual values on the second hand market are still very near retail value, so you risk very little by buying either or both right now. You can always turn around and sell it if it turns out it’s not the right one for you.

@andris

Planar magnetic drivers are a different beast from dynamic drivers, and it’s fairly common that planars are tougher to pair with tubes than dynamic drivers - and it’s also fairly common, including outside of ZMF, that dynamic driver headphones pair beautifully with tubes.

I know you’ve said you did not think Stellaris was a particularly good pairing with Caldera, but fwiw I’ve found Caldera to play quite nicely with Valhalla. Not “ideal”, perhaps, but certainly not a bad pairing. This could be for any one (or more) of several reasons:

1. Schiit amps, and Valhalla in particular, have a demonstrated synergy with ZMF
2. I’m comparing Caldera on Valhalla to Caldera on Lyr as my “solid state” alternative. Lyr isn’t really solid state, exactly, though I would classify it as a solid state amp with a tube pre attached.
3. I’m so into tubes I still prefer even a planar on tubes
4. I never met a headphone I didn’t think sounds good on Valhalla because I Valhalla.

@Kennyboy

I live on the Virginia Peninsula in southeast VA.

Although I live in NYC/NJ now, I am a Virginia native (grew up in Danville, very familiar with the Suffolk area)

@Kennyboy

Since I like my Clear, I suspect that I would like the Utopia. If I buy a Utopia, I guess that I will sell my Clear OGs. But when I learned about the Caldera and the Atrium, they sounded equally as desirable and as worth consideration as the Utopia.

Clear is often said to be “85% of Utopia” which I suppose is more or less true in that Utopia is the evolution of Clear to its ultimate state. But Utopia has a particular magic that it’s hard to describe until you experience it. At the second hand values right now it’s almost silly NOT to pick up a used Utopia OG. If you like Clear at all, you will not regret upgrading to Utopia I promise.

@Kennyboy

I appreciate the input from yourself and others in this community. Some experts have no patience for relative laypersons like me. I find only helpful comments here.

I am very particular about where I spend my time online and I have a LONG and storied history on messageboards (but that’s a whole other story…). This is a REALLY good community here.

[Haasaaroni]

The Clear → Utopia path is actually quite relevant to the discussion of ZMF’s here to me. I’ve heard the Clear a handful of times and have always loved it, but despite the improved technicalities of the Utopia, when I heard it at CanJam SoCal last year, I really didn’t like it…and that was out of the Lina stack! The aggression in the upper midrange (I think) was just too much for me, and despite being TOTL in resolution, I was really not enjoying myself.

Then I felt the same about going from the Auteur Classic to the Atrium. I know I’m in the minority, but I find the upper mids on the Atrium too forward. It’s a noticeable leap up from the Auteur Classic technically, but because I prefer the tonality of the Auteur Classic, I find it the more enjoyable headphone and better all-rounder.

But I heard the Caldera, and it was a real WOW moment. It just seemed to do everything I wanted from the Atrium with a more balanced tonality (both reigning in the mids while also being better extended up top). So I’m just putting it in there that if an aggressive midrange (think HD600’s) is something that can bother you at all, like it does me, between the Atrium and Caldera, the Caldera may be the better choice.

[robson]

@chrisnyc75

This is always the problem in the “summit-fi” territory. It’s rare that we have the occasion to audition even one, much less two or three, summit-fi products to compare.

I 100% agree, you spend your money and you take your chances, and hope for the best. That’s why I also value this community, lots of experience here, little in the way of judgement or bs. YMMV with what you think is ideal, as we can see from the above…

I’ve not had buyer’s remorse with any of the ZMFs I have, I know not everyone feels the same way. I guess that makes me a bit of a fanboy

@chrisnyc75

Schiit amps, and Valhalla in particular, have a demonstrated synergy with ZMF

Agreed, and I don’t find the ZMF dynamic driver models I have to be super picky about amp pairings.

Of what I have, my favorite pairing for Verite is the Valhalla 2, while I think the Atrium with my Burson Soloist GT is a match made in heaven! The synergy between the 2 is next level. Yggy OG DAC in all cases.

[Kennyboy]

If I decide to acquire a used Utopia OG in addition to or lieu of an Atrium or Caldera, are there certain runs that I need to be concerned about? I’ve heard about faulty drivers in some of the early Utopias.

[Kennyboy]

And I grew up near NYC and my first job was in NYC.

[KaranGovil]

Newer the better, especially post 2020. Make sure to get the original receipt as Focal honors the 5 year warranty if you have the original receipt afaik.

[BoardmanGetsPaid]

I think @andris’s experience with Caldera/Stellaris combo is very interesting and can somewhat relate to that. I’ve not heard a planar that wow me as much as any dynamic driver when driven off a SET amp. They sound fine and a few that sound great but nothing like how a dynamic synergizes with a DNA amp for example.

I’ve heard people having much more success with UL amps and planar but I’m not qualified to make a judgement. Perhaps someone with an amp that can run on UL mode like the pendant can chime in.

[bpcarb]

@Kennyboy

Balanced connectors all the way to max out the GSX-mini.

The Atrium is likely to be a better pairing with this amp if you find the amp to lean unfavorably high in energy and harshness and could use some taming. If you find the amp to lean too relaxed, the Atrium will unfavorably exacerbate that.

The Caldera has greater scaling potential should you eventually change your electronics.

@Kennyboy

I guess that I am looking to graduate to the next level in detail retrieval

This favors the Caldera over the Atrium.

[bpcarb]

@Kennyboy

I want both punchy bass and extended sub bass-is this even possible?.

Caldera goes deeper with more speed, detail, texture. Atrium has more bass impact.

@Kennyboy

I want a natural sound that is non fatiguing but not boring. I

Likewise. I own a Caldera and RAD-0.

[chrisnyc75]

Honestly, I think Utopia OG is a really good place to start before you go into “exotic” summit-fi planars. Utopia will sound familiar because it’s dynamic drivers (which are what we’re all used to, really) and it will show you the pinnacle of what dynamics are capable of. Once you have that reference point you can venture into planars to see what they can do that dynamics can’t.

[hifiDJ]

I don’t want to steer this to a utopia discussion so I’ll be brief, but I think some of you that are recommending the utopia might be forgetting how much of a pain it is to pair with source gear-wise. Some of you have nice chains already to pair it with so it can be easy to forget or mention.

Although I’ve only heard the gsx-mini briefly at a show, I wouldn’t pair it with a utopia personally. Perhaps if you had a warmer DAC I’d consider it.

There’s a reason why nicely-priced utopias appear often in the used market, one of which is lack of attention in source gear and synergy. It’s a great price used but only if you have or are centering a chain around it otherwise, I don’t think it’s a nice place to start with.

Well that’s just my opinion, I said I’d be brief.

[pennstac]

@chrisnyc75

will sound familiar because it’s dynamic drivers (which are what we’re all used to, really)

My good headphones from about 1978 until maybe 2018 were the STAX SR-5n.

[chrisnyc75]

Caldera OR electrostat (i.e. Stax, CRBN, etc) is what I’m pondering now.

[pennstac]

I reiterate my respect for the Nectar Hive. Reasonable price. I have no experience of the top end STAX or CRBN. But it is not embarrassed by the RAD-0. I do toy with a STAX SR-007 in the future.

[generic]

@hifiDJ

There’s a reason why nicely-priced utopias appear often in the used market, one of which is lack of attention in source gear and synergy.

Indeed. I wrote “This hurts, I want to stop listening now.” in my review a couple years ago.

[Pharmaboy]

Interesting to read this comment. I’ve never heard an electrostatic I could actually live with and enjoy. At best, it’s a unicorn sound, briefly intriguing; at worst it’s insubstantial & airy to the point of treble hell.

Admittedly, I’ve only heard them at shows, but the consistency of my experience of the various ones I tried did speak to me.

[andris]

@hifiDJ

I don’t want to steer this to a utopia discussion so I’ll be brief, but I think some of you that are recommending the utopia might be forgetting how much of a pain it is to pair with source gear-wise.

FWIW, I’d be perfectly happy with a Utopia and Chord Mojo and done. I don’t think it’s that hard. Just more that you can screw it up with particularly spicy source gear.

[PaisleyUnderground]

Moving the conversation back to the Caldera, I’ve been comparing the Caldera to the Rosson RAD-0 and Meze Elite. I own the first 2 and have had the Elite on loan. Listening was mainly done on my Nautilus, with some time on the Burson Soloist 3XP to see if anything changed on a SS amp.

First, they’re all amazing headphones, and if I picked any one of them up and started listening to music, I would have a very enjoyable time. I just mention that because comparing very good audio equipment that have different characteristics can create artificial “flaws” that you might never think about if you weren’t actively comparing.

I found the RAD-0 and Elite to be very similar in frequency response, with a slightly warm and relaxed sound, with the main difference that the Elite has a much bigger soundstage, which opened up the music a little more, and the Elite also a slightly better defined bass, which helped propel funk music (James Brown, Funkadelic) a little better. I found both to benefit from switching to my silver DHC Molecule Elite cable, which tightened up the sound a bit, as I found both headphones to be a little too warm and hazy for my liking with copper or even copper-silver hybrid cables. Although I liked the Elite a bit more when comparing them, they were very close, and I would be happy to use either one as a “sit back and relax” headphone.

As much as I enjoyed the RAD-0 and Elite, switching to the Caldera (using a Arctic Gladius copper-silver hybrid cable and stock lambskin pads) always brought a bigger smile to my mouth. The Caldera has better detail, making the Elite seemed veiled in comparison, and for my preferences, it just has a better, more even frequency response. I can’t explain this in audiophile terms, but somehow the Caldera brought me closer to the music, creating more of a 3D soundscape, and making the other 2 seem more like photocopies of the music (only in comparison, I never thought that when comparing the Elite to the RAD-0).

For example, one of my test tracks is “Here’s Where The Story Ends”, which I use to listen to the strings of the acoustic guitar accompanying Harriet Wheeler’s amazing voice. I normally listen to the first 30 seconds or so, to get an impression. Both the the RAD-0 and Elite sounded absolutely wonderful, but when I switched to the Caldera, it sounded so much more real, and I listened to the whole song. (In fact I listened to the song again as I typed that last sentence, just to make sure I wasn’t imagining things).

If I like the Caldera so much more than the RAD-0 (or even the Elite more than the RAD-0), does that mean I’m selling the Rosson? No, because it really hits the spot when I’m sitting back and listening to music, and not worrying about highs, lows, stage etc. In most cases, and I’m sure you’re all the same, I put on one pair of headphones for the day, and I’m not switching headphones and cables every 2 minutes. Because how much fun is that? But having said that, I will probably reach for the Caldera more.