I really think it comes down to as a few have noted, what is your overall purpose and use of a portable music device. Do you travel ( for work) ( Pleasure) ( Retired), do you use the device around the house, working in the yard, setting on a mower mowing your field, or relaxing in that lazy boy in the AC or under an umbrella on the beach. And how much are committed to having a separate music device that provides a better quality of audio as compared to a smartphone. And as noted, this is a hobby, you have a choice to own both a smartphone and or a DAP. I say enjoy.
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Wow, really enjoying the nuanced and varied responses. And I think it really speaks to my main point, not that there’s the understandable “different strokes for different folks” angle, but that the DAP market may be at a bit of an inflection point, at least compared to the ongoing and apparent rate of innovation in the headphone market.
For those traditionalists like @phillyphil (so glad you’re enjoying the Cayin N8!), I can understand that, but for me, especially after reading and thinking about the varied responses, if I go back to a DAP I want a little bit more from a separate unit vs a smartphone, especially from a four-figure, “hi-fi” level setup.
What I THINK I want is Roon outside of the home with its functionality of seamlessly managing my FLAC files (speaking to the traditionalist side of things), as well as the streaming integration to feed my music discoverability desires, with the internal high-end guts and features of a DAP like the Cayin N8 (tubes!) to give the sound quality above most smartphones. Also, the power to drive TOTL headphones (and IEMs obviously). Essentially, a “desktop” setup made truly portable, not transportable. With no compromises.
I’ll wake up now from my dream, realizing this may never be feasible, at least for the next few years, for many of the reasons mentioned above!
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That’s an interesting recommendation, a great one hiding in plain sight - thank you! Would it sound any better than an iPhone?
I’d contemplated getting an iPod Classic but the output impedance above 10 ohms is a poor match for BA IEMs.
That would be just the ticket!
That’s a lovely way of putting it. I think the key point I failed to make in my overly long post above is that I’m fond of DAPs and am sad to see them becoming a thing of the past - I wish there could be some way for them to evolve and stay relevant. I share @Skyediver’s dream of shiny future with Roon functionality, FLAC storage, the internals and sound of DAPs, etc…
I hope the DAP won’t go the way of the dinosaur (I love Gary Larson’s Far Side cartoons)
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Speculating – unlikely. I’d guess they may use the same mini dongle DAC as the iPhone, but inside the case.
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Yes, Android DAPs, to be specific.
Streaming is only as viable as your connection. If the net goes down, you’re assed-out. Keep local/hard copies
Does anyone make a high-quality DAP that isn’t Android-based? With (I guess) self contained hardware decoding that doesn’t need to be updated? I mean, a CD player’s a CD player, no apps needed. You get what it was designed with, take it or leave it.
Sure.
They’re not as common as they used to be, but current high-end non-Android models include the Cayin N8, Lotoo PAW Touch, Sony WM1A & WM1Z, Luxury and Precision P6.
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Yup. Not sure if any nail it on the software side of things though. Again, I may be biased based on my industry in real life. Several here seem very happy with current status as a standalone device.
DAPs, and this specific niche of hi-end audio, kinda reminds me of the camera industry, and how smartphones killed the snapshot camera space once smartphone cameras became “good enough”, with many specifically upgrading their phone based just on the computational photography specs (the innovation side of the equation).
The lens of a smartphone is still small though, and some (the niche group in this story) still want/use DSLR or Mirrorless. Just like here, both sides have valid and compelling points.
As an amateur photographer, I see some similarities to our discussion here, if I may? I’m sorta interested in the “traditional” photography companies of old thinking how they can leverage that legacy in the marketplace. Taking their intellectual property and decades of experience with large lenses, and beginning to think like software companies and not deny the 21st century and computational photography’s undeniable benefits. Early stage, but I like what Hasselblad is doing on the UI & touchscreen front with systems like the X1D II: https://www.hasselblad.com/x1d/.
Maybe Cayin, A&K and the other high-end manufacturers you mention are thinking about what the next “inflection point” moment can be for them in DAP space, to move beyond just slight DAC improvements, etc.? I think audio is a much smaller market though, making R&D investments in such things more difficult, but surprises and innovation can happen, sometimes when least expected. Not owning/running a company, I can still appreciate that financial investment reality.
Again, it was interesting to see that many here are content, if not outright happy with the way things are in the DAP space as they are now, and are cool with a certain level of status quo in a mature market. And it definitely opened my eyes to other perspectives which is always helpful. But maybe DAPs don’t have to go the way of the dinosaur at all. Like @Tchoupitoulas, it’d be great to see them find an angle to not just stay a small niche, but (once again) thrive.
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Thanks, Torq. I’ll check these out.
I have been searching for many years for a high quality solution for portable playback. First started with iPods, then smartphone and cheap earbuds, then upgraded to higher quality IEM’s, then bought an AK Jr. Thought I’d found the answer but… then I heard about the Hiby R6 but started hearing about its issues with certain impedance IEM’s so decided against that. Then I heard about the Hiby R5- dual DAC, high power output, full Android player. I was sold. I can’t imagine ever needing another DAP. Streams flawlessly, has a micro SD card slot for my flac files and the wifi works fine. Sounds incredible to me but my 61 yo abused ears aren’t the most sensitive anymore. I do still use my S10+ some in the car (wired- never BT) but if wifi is avaliable the R5 is the player I use. Now the Hiby R8 is out which has a data only SIM card. There’s the innovation.
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I lusted after a DAP for the longest time, but in the end just got a Dragonfly Cobalt to use with my laptop, for occasions when I am on a plane or a train or in a hotel room (who knows when those times will return?). I would still enjoy having one, I think, as a handy spot for a lot of the music I have on files (WAV, AIFF, etc), but it’s so far down the line in terms of potential usage hours that I don’t see any real need for one. Everyone has different needs and tastes though … and I do love the look of those AK players. (Because of work, I already carry a fair amount of recording and photographic gear when I travel so that also works against acquiring yet another fancy metal box),
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May I ask which IEMs you’re using with you HibyR5, please? I ask because I’m looking for a friend for my sensitive, picky Andromeda.
I’m using the Tin P1, Tin T4 and BGVP DMG. Fortunately the R5 does not have the impedance issues of the R6 nor does the R6 Pro for that matter. Black background with all of those, even on high gain. I paid 400 for it when it first came out but now can be had for almost half that when Hiby puts it on sale. It’s powerful enough to drive all my full size HP’s on high gain. Actually the Tin P1’s are the most difficult to drive of all (Focal Elex, Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee, HarmonicDyne Helios). Go figure.
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I don’t know about over for good but I’d say they’re definitely over for all but the most boutique enthusiasts. Even cables, as far as the general public is concerned, will one day soon be a thing of the past.
Go on… you know you want one. Treat yourself. 
.
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I guess I’ll be one of the few left to turn the light out. I like cables, and I like picking my own DAC/Amps.
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I’ve now read this entire thread and, as a beginner in the headphone world, I still need some advice as to what music source to use. I have decided I would like to get a separate source rather than relying on my cellphone (currently an iPhone 6), iPad (currently 7th generation) and, less frequently, my Mac Air. But my needs based on how I listen to music are rather limited. I either (1) use it with my headphones at home or (2) use it during walks with my Koss Porta Pro headphones (light weight, good sound). In both cases I use my headphones wired and so I don’t need Bluetooth for that purpose (Would I need it for streaming?). My most expensive pair of headphones is the Ananda, and I do expect to upgrade further in the future with respect to both headphones and amp/dacs so I would need adequate power. I currently listen to Amazon Music HD and would need to have a music source that would allow me to stream from it and other streaming services. I don’t really understand how much impact the quality of the dap affects the actual sound, but to the extent it does I like a warmer, less analytical sound. As you can probably tell from this reply, simpler to operate for me would be better. I would prefer to spend not more than, say, up to $300. I could spend a somewhat more if it would make a significant difference, but given my limited needs I would suspect I shouldn’t have to (?). Sorry for the length of this note, and I would very much appreciate any advice. Thanks.
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Please all ignore the above post I placed. I realized after that I put it in the wrong tag. I replaced it, modifying it somewhat, in the “Purchase Advice” thread. Sorry.
I am going to say this…I think the DAP days are not over. The thing is this…there are many us out there who think its a major distraction to have your phone and music tied together. I do not want to have notifications popping thru while I am trying to listen to music. It gets to be too much trying to be on my phone, trying to go back and forth between my music library and streaming, answering texts and emails, and then flipping from that to answer calls and read other material. Hell no to that. Hence the reason for a separate dap. Also, many of you here are Android fan boys, and rationalize that having a android dap and phone is redundant. I get that…at the same time. I hate daps with android, outside that of usb connectivity purposes. So with that, I like looking for daps without android, or heavily modified android daps (like AK).
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