I used to use an old LG V20 as a DAP. I got a Qudelix 5K for Christmas, and that’s pretty much obsoleted DAPs and onboard audio for me. With LDAC, Bluetooth sound quality is more than good enough for me, and the built in EQ means that I get system wide EQ for everything.
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I’m new to this concept of higher end portable music. I started on this quest almost a year ago, researching what was out there. I still consider myself dumber than a rock on much of this but I’m still learning.
What I thought would be a simple quest turned out to be anything but. I’ve had Apple itunes for years but their refusal to get on the bandwagon of Enhanced Bluetooth and Higher resolution music was kind of a bummer from my view. I’ve been a Amazon customer for over 20 years and when I looked into their new UltraHD music plan I jumped on board. That’s when things got complicated.
I naively thought I could get a reasonably priced DAP and enjoy HiRez music both at home and stream BT while out walking. It seems none of this is possible, at least on my budget. It seems you can’t stream Amazon Ultra HD or use any of the add on like UAAP, Poweramp or Onkyo on either Itunes or Amazon because of their proprietary formats. I purchased the Onkyo music player only to find out that it wont find either of my music libraries.
I ended up buying an LG V40 new old stock phone without a sim card. It will do everything I want except for playing Amazon at full resolution because of Android throttling. Here is another irony. I purchased a Sonata HD Pro Dongle. I can hook it to my iphone and it will play Amazon’s highest resolution (24/192}. It will not work with my V40. Frustrating. I don’t want to use my iphone as a player because of the limited storage.
I have sort of made peace with this situation. At home, I can listen with my HD580’s from my laptop or desktop because the will both play at 24/192. When I’m out walking, I use my V40 and output BT Aptx to my Sennheiser momentum 2’s. OK. Done with rant. Happy listening.
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Why don’t you download UAPP on the V40? No more Android upsampling.
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Interceptor69, chased that option down already. It won’t play nice with Amazon.
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Hello,
I certainly hope not (he says as listening on a Hiby R6–balanced with ZMF cans, Tidal).
My wife is tone deaf, so we can rule here out immediately.
Kids: 32 yr boy and 22 yr girl. Absolutely no chance I can convince them at this point that music quality is real, much less important, and foremost anything to dedicate time to.
IMHO, Spotify, not going to lossless, really sums it up. Focusing on mega-content is the game. And spending time to actually hear HQ music nuance is “something my dad did”. Music is something to have in the background while doing something else. (Might as well be the TV smirk.)
To the positive: I’ve ordered the Hiby R6 2020. It has a SIM card slot! But, with cell service issues, it’s only for data in the US ATM.
So, I think the industry may be going in 2 directions: Cell phones with crappy audio, and high-end DAPs with phone capabilities. But once the “older generation” dies off, it’s really up to them.
How Boomer…
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I am very satisfied with my Sony WM1A.
I thought the Hiby R8 was the only DAP with a SIM card.
Have Amazon but never listen to it. Didn’t realize UAPP didn’t support that service-sorry.
I don’t understand the thinking behind this thread. (Primarily looking at you Darko)
Why should we all use the same type of device?
Perhaps the idea of a DAP is that it is NOT a phone…
I use both my DAP and my mobile for music and I use both my flip flops and mountain boots on my feet, when one is better than the other, for that situation.
Development is good, but finetuning and component quality are also progress and valuable. The DAP is far from dead, as it is different from the mobile, but wallet size, needs, interests etc. are all elements that dictate if you want one or not.
I don’t own a motorcycle; I have a car and no interest in a motorcycle. I know people who have both, but why, they can do the same… or what?
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I’m right there with you, but hey, I still like vinyl.
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Same here.
Go as high as you can with sampling rate vinyl has another (I don’t write better or other adjectives) sound to my ears and it is the one I look for in the music I listen to.
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Good afternoon all!
To be honest, I have never owned any DAP that cost more than $100 and personally, if a $400+ DAP fits your needs, more power to you. I’m on the smartphone/tablet side of the fence on this topic and with used smartphone costs, I can’t see myself spending a lot of money on a DAP where I can buy a used LG V20 (which has numerous articles regarding its audio capability) for $94 on Swappa with 64gb internal, extra battery on Ebay for $20 and any number of good quality amp/dac dongles or portables for around $150? (XDuoo XP-2 Pro comes to mind). Do you need the external amp/dac? Maybe yes, maybe no, but all of this punches far above it’s weight with processing power, battery life and functionality than a DAP in similiar or above price range. When I’m home, I use my Huawei MediaPad T3 for a source. Plenty of processing power (1.4ghz quad core processor), big battery (4800 mAh) that easily handles Hiby Music with no issues. Even the headphone amp does a nice job with my IEM’s. Cost? Price has gone up since I bought it but can be bought for around $110 new.
Something to keep in mind is that DAPs focus on SQ. This becomes far more tue in the higher end as well. I pretty largely agree that daps under $500 or so (new) dont seem to make much sense to me as you can get a portable amp with similar quality for much cheaper with good BT implementations. Once you start breaking into the TOTL stuff though, there realy just arent any dac/amp options with similar SQ for portable use at all.
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Agreed, and the IEM pairing matters, too. My Massdrop Plus IEMs sound only marginally different from an iPhone vs a Sony NW-ZX2 (a totl DAP half a decade ago). The Campfire Audio Andromeda 2020 sounds far better out of the Sony.
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Please don’t misunderstand me when I ask this because I’m trying to understand those who spend more than $500-600 dollars on DAP’s. If we talk about an ultra high end DAP for home use, wouldn’t it make more sense to buy a competent sub $200 DAP and then spend hard earned money for a separate DAC and headphone amp than a ton of money for a high end DAP by itself? For an example, $1400 for the Fiio M15 OR Hidizs AP80 Pro ($160), SMSL SU-9 ($440) and a SMSL SP200 ($265).
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There are a few things at play here.
- A dap and a desktop setup are just flat out different use cases. Yes, a desktop setup will get you much better SQ for the money (same goes for IEMs vs over ears in all but the ultra low and ultra high ends). But you cant exactly use your 6xx+dakvoice while you cook breakfast or go to the bathroom. IMO, the added convenience of a portable setup is astonishingly massive (though I may be biased since I am portable only currently).
- The 5-600 USD dap market is pretty small. You tend to see 7/800-1100, ~1500, and then TOTL. Honestly, when looking at any of these price brackets, most of the owners arent exactly choosing between desktop vs dap. They are choosing between SQ levels they want while not at the desk setup they already have. Its not an either or choice
I will say though, depreciation hits daps very hard. This means that if you only run more efficient cans you can get some extremely good SQ in the sub $500 range if you go used. Imo, a good example of this is the micro BL. For $325 used (pretty common price) you are absalutely competing with desktop 300 stacks, and if you only run iems, something like a used opus #2 may well be better SQ than anything on the desktop side of things can give you for the
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I dont have a ton of experience with IEMs (I kinda went straight in to mest and they are so fucking fantastic I just stayed there), but yes, I am starting to realize just how important synergy is. I have a L&P P6 Pro. It puts out 500mw into 32 ohm. Balanced out to my focal clears leaves me with a dense, closed in, heavy, claustrophobic, mushy mess. However, if I use LO into my Mass Kobo 428 (only 150mw into 32 ohm) → clears I now have an organic, expansive, clearly imaged beauty of a can. On the other hand, mest do significantly better directly out of the P6P than they do on the 428 because they simply pair much better with the presentation it gives. Tbh, I am quite interested to try something more refined and in line with the clears iem wise (VX maybe?) And try that vs mest on P6P vs LPGT (or H2 or similar) and see how much synergy plays a role in iems
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If you are happy with a mobile phone (Even the LG V20) and think that is all the SQ you nedd, well then more power to you. But getting a DAP is like Eskamobob1 says:
I have a great dektop setup I really enjoy, but I want SQ OTG as well, so I use a DAP because I get a better SQ that way, than with a mobile phone. I also own a portable dac/amp, but when outside the house it is easier with a DAP and when you get at a certain price level, their SQ is really good.
I have a $500 DAP and a $1250 DAP. There is a significant SQ difference and to me the expensive one is worth every penny.
Being satisfied with your current level, is a gift. If you don’t need more, well then you can save a lot of money, because this is not a cheap hobby. But I won’t settle while OTG, so I got me a DAP to (almost) match my desk setup.
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Thank you for the reply.
Having sold home audio a million years ago, this might sound a little weird, but I feel more connected with the home aspect and understand the mindset of spending 80% more for 10% quality increase when sitting in my favorite chair to listen to music. To me, it seems the more things change they still stay the same and now I see the mobile audiophile (is that a bad word? there seems to be some debate about that but I still like the word) market has taken the Burr Brown and Citation II’s, improved them and given them legs. The counter points everyone has provided have been enlightening and the ability use the potty while experiencing nonexistent floor noise and loseloss audio sounds like a audio connoisseur’s dream. Maybe I’ll dip a toe or two in the DAP pool at some point. I’ve spend many hours researching them according to my budget (which is not much), but then I’ll just find another audio rabbit hole I can see me falling down in and all I can see is a much lighter wallet and a very PO’d wife. 
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This should be printed on a bumper sticker or T shirt sold in a high end audio store!
Well said and extremely true!
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