@Dudley_Doody uploaded these for the DT 700 and 900 Pro X:
Impressions: Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads for DT880 (600 ohm)
Background: I built a Bottlehead Crack and bought a set of DT880s to explore the potential of the OTL amp architecture (see post above). As advertised, the DT880 600 ohm edition on the Crack produces a smooth and refined midrange. For that narrow consideration it surpasses the Focal Clear (non-Crack amp) and is equal or better than the Sennheiser HD600 and HD800S. However, the DT880 indeed has a nasty treble spike that demands either a rolled-off amp or EQ for comfortable use.
Dekoni offered Elite Sheepskin pads for the Beyer family at half off on Black Friday 2021, so I grabbed a set. These are about twice as thick as the factory pads, are made of leather rather than fuzzy fabric, and have a secondary mesh filter across the center opening. As such, they boost the bass plus severely cut mid and high range frequencies.
The nasty 9k peak (per the DT1990 graph) is indeed tamed, but unfortunately they transform the DT880 into being thick and extremely veiled. To come anywhere near neutral one must boost the upper mid range. I’m turning up knob #3 on my Loki, whereas I previously used knob #4 to cut the treble spike.
There seems to be no magic bullet to cure the DT880’s treble issue. On the positive side these Dekoni pads allow use with brighter amps and cause me no fatigue by default. Over time the foam may flatten and the tone may brighten. One might also try removing the secondary mesh filters to reach the middle ground, but that seems to be a permanent process.
Recommendation: Flip a coin. Pick your poison. These are well made pads and could be a good place to start for modifications.
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Over the course of my audiophile time, I’ve sought something that surpasses the HD600 in terms of “general usability” from my perspective and my own tailored needs. I’ve cycled through a decent number of headphones, from “lower end” to the “TOTL”. Yet none have quite done it, until recently with the DT 900 Pro X. I actually thought it would not be up to par and just not as good vs the HD600 based on impressions/reviews of others, nonetheless I gave them a shot, and I am so glad I did, with that in mind, let’s get to the review.
A preface: I believe all SS amps sound the same and dacs have little if anything to do to the characteristics of sound. You can tell me all you want about how your $500+ dac and amp influenced the sound but I’d be skeptical from my own personal experience. The testing was done on my trusty Fiio K5 Pro and using Peace GUI EQ. Most of the review consists of the sound EQ’d but I will have a seperate section w/o EQ. I will leave my EQ at the bottom of this for the curious. so, let’s jump in.
Music genres I listen to: Metal and it’s various sub-genres. Bands specifically: Gojira, Korn, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipknot, Mastodon, Tool, Etc.
Comfort: Superb. I love the way this fits my dome. My head is a bit on the smaller side and this has that lovely high clamp and super soft velour pads that I love. Weight is something close to 350g (~70g more than the HD600 I believe) and it is more noticeable vs the HD600 but it’s a non-issue for me and my weightlifting antics. If you can handle the HD600, you can handle the DT 900 Pro X. (The ear cups are smaller vertically than the HD6X0 series so that could cause some problems, but to me is a non-issue like I said). This headphone also passes my headbang test, so basically me listening to “VACUITY” - Gojira and going hog-wild.
Sound: (W/O EQ): For non-bass heavy genres or people who don’t like bass, it’s good. The extension is certainly better than the HD600. It has a better impact and tactile feel and is generally good. Not many complaints to be fair. Mids are awesome! Lower to mid-mids are very nice and very fluent and there’s no issue here either imo, again if you like the HD600’s mids, you’ll like these too. Just note the vocals are slightly more pushed back, but that doesn’t bother me too much. Upper mids is slighty dipped vs the HD600 and I do need to EQ the 4.5k region to get it to my liking, but I do like a more forward presentation so, YMMV. Treble is great too. I like more air (>10k khz) than what is given here but it’s definitely not bad. I don’t notice any sibilance nor anything that makes me want to rip them off my dome. (1990 Pro, I loved you at your darkest, but I couldn’t stand that brightness).
Sound: (W/ EQ) TDLR: Metal has never sounded so “alive”.
Bass: I love this. I add a generous 4db shelf below 100 hz and also a 1.5-2db peak ~400 hz and damn does it just sound fun to me. I love how it adds that visceral sound that metal that just eats at your soul. It’s got that energy, but is also not boomy or bloated sounded vs the EQ’d HD600. It’s got more impact, control, and gut behind it than the HD600 and it’s sinfully addictive.
Mids: Once that upper mid “issue” is fixed, it’s great. Like an HD600 but with less “in your face” vocals. Still great. Not one thing to complain about IMO.
Treble: Not sibilant. Not under-done. It’s basically fine for my ears, and I don’t notice anything “off” about it. Again, I add +2 db shelf >10500 khz just because I can, but you realistically don’t have to. If you wanted an ever-so slightly brighter treble than the HD600, it’ll do that just fine.
Soundstage/Imaging: A little wider than the HD600, more precise imaging in gaming. Again, if you wanted an HD600 with more width and imaging, these’ll serve you greatly. Gaming on the HD600 is no issue however, I never find anything lacking in gaming with the Senns.
Instrument Separation/Detail: It separates as well as the HD600 but has a more “room filling” quality. So, it may sound initially like it’s worse, but I find it about the same, just the spaces are more filled in (Probably because of my “Excessive” 4db bass but ymmv). Metal never seems to get overly-convoluted or lost, it sounds like it should sound. Detail again is on par with the HD600, less than the X65, but it’s not by a huge margin. Again, I think that “room filling” quality can seem to mask detail, but it’s all there if you seek it. (Resolve said the 900 Pro X has less detail and I could not disagree more, I have not heard the 300R but I can’t imagine it being worse or better here either, I don’t think their opinions are wrong, rather is just my subjective take [Hence why it is called “subjective”]).
Conclusion/Rant: I love these cans. The 900 Pro X have shown and enlightened me that there’s more to audiophilia than “neutrality” and “following the narrative”. Trust your own ears and forget about anything and what anyone else says. Reviewers and others say these are less detailed and closed off (They feel closed off but it’s similar to a 1990 imo) and I don’t see it. These cans do it for me, and I don’t think they’re worse than the HD600, just different.
More-over, I think we as a community should disagree with others but not take what they say as “false”. Like I said, I think Resolve and DMS are wrong about detail and what have you, but who am I? I’m merely a metalhead who weightlifts. They’re the professionals and their opinions are more than warranted, but what about the average joe? Just because they’re not a professional does not mean their impressions or interpretations are any less credible imo. It’s their interpretation and should be respected. We should also de-stigmatize the “follow the leader” narrative (Great album by Korn btw), if a reviewer says something about a headphone (like smaller soundstage or less detail, etc) take it with a grain of salt and unless you’ve used the HP yourself and can agree, don’t go on saying that narrative without that disclaimer. I think Resolve had posted something similar on Headphones.com but I’m unsure as of now.
Rant Over: Thanks for sticking with the review. I’ll stick with these cans for a while.
Previous headphones owned: HD660s, DCA Ether 2, DT 770 & 1990, Austrian Audio X65, HE-500,
EQ: -5 db preamp
4db shelf @ 100 hz
2 db peak filter @ 400 hz Q = 1.41
4.5 db peak filter @ 4100 hz Q = 2.5
2.5 db high shelf @ 10000 hz
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While I agree that average joe impressions and interpretations should be considered as well, I believe that each person has to show their worth in order for others to take their word seriously or with a grain of salt.
I believe there is such a thing as training your ear when it comes to audio. Whether it be audiophile audio, proaudio audio, or being a musician. Nobody wakes up knowing exactly what they’re hearing, what to listen for, and how to correct the output. So while no reviewer is without faults (nor human being), I do think there are some reviewers whose words you can trust more. Generally I don’t disagree with what people say until I’ve heard that particular headphone or know someone well enough to where I trust their opinion as my own. The second part only happens after trying many of the same headphones and agreeing to a certain degree with how they review gear.
Anyways, thanks for writing up your impressions on the DT900 pro x. It’s definitely one I’d like to try someday so I can contribute to impressions. I do hope DMS and Resolve are wrong about them and that this is a good headphone to have.
Yeah this is the key, and there are so many factors like this that play a role in impressions differing - like listening specifically for different things. And also, even if you focus hard on training your ear on a wide range of equipment, who is to say that we’re all listening for the same qualities, or define them in the same way. Moreover, who is to say what’s better or worse for one acoustic property or another. I might find certain qualities like blunting from overdamping to be undesirable, others may find that quality to be desirable. There’s absolutely a sense of ‘tightness’ that gets imparted by this quality and I can see someone finding it engaging.
I think for me it’s been a process of learning to fully understand what I hear from the equipment, whether that be tonal balance or these various other subjective qualia. But, whether the positive or negative valence I’ve associated with these qualities is part of someone else’s experience in the same way… I’ve no idea haha. I think in some ways it’s because of the experience with wide range of equipment that I’ve come to these conclusions about things. Like when you hear the Drop Panda for example, any time I hear that blunted quality afterwards it’s like a horrible reminder of how terrible that headphone sounded haha. So there’s kind of like a context for the negative valence for that acoustic quality if you know what I mean.
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I’m happy that you found something that works for you. As above in this thread, I’m a believer in Beyer’s potential. I haven’t tried the 900 Pro X. Beyer has been sleeping technologywise for a while, but don’t count them out.
Here is where I’ll disagree with every fiber of my body. DACs make a huge difference. I own a variety ranging from the $9 Apple dongle to the $699 Bifrost 2. The BF2 was worth every penny and its differences are readily audible beyond ESS and AKM chips.
I also disagree about SS amp equivalence, and have disposed of several for being too bright or harsh. My lean sounding THX AAA 789 has been boxed up for several months too.
This may be where the difference lies, as you are listening to heavily processed music. Metal’s bite comes from the treble, so the differences in DACs and amps may be lost with this genre. I hear the greatest differences in vocals and acoustic instruments – often in the air, breath, echoes, or sound of the recording room rather than the primary notes. Such material may simply not be present in your source music. Also, the subtle edges can become rough and harsh with MP3s or compressed files.
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I’ve heard good things about DT 880 Pro 600 ohm. I currently use the DT 770 Pro 250 ohm and am reasonably happy with it. I like the frequency response of the 880 - I EQ my 770’s bass down to something similar to the 880.
Would getting an 880 Pro 600 ohm be much of an upgrade over the 770 Pro, particularly in regards to technical performance?
Does EQing the 770 make it comparable to the 880?
Finally, would a Schiit Magni Plus provide enough power to the 880 Pro 600 ohm to provide a good listening experience?
Hello Tsumake. Welcome to your headphones forum!
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I am on my third pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO. My first one, Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250-ohm, had too much bass and I did not equalize back then, so I sold them. Later, I thought I could learn to love Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250-ohm and bought them a second time. I still couldn’t stand the overbearing bass, so I sold them again. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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Finally, the third time around, I purchased a Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 80-ohm and they are keepers. On top of that, Resolve taught me that equalization is not an evil spawn of the devil. Thus, I have come to love and depend upon equalization to achieve enlightened headphone-potential nirvana .
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In terms of performance Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250-ohm and Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm are not too far off in units of ballparks when compared to all headphones out there. However, when I only owned a handful of budget headphones back in the day, the Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 250-ohm was my favorite headphone tied with Grado SR225 og. However, the Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 250-ohm received about 97% of my music listening back then compared to 1% of the SR225. The non-EQ’d Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250-ohm got no love at all as I already stated.
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Fast forward to today, my Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm is my only Beyerdynamic that actually will still get used and grabbed for pure enjoyment. Putting the Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm on tubes, they are still lots of fun. Pairing them with solid state amplifiers however, I don’t really invest any time since I have modern headphones that pair so much better with solid state amplifiers. I just plugged my Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm into my Singxer SA-1 and they did perform well and meshed with the Singxer’s laid back solid state character. The harsh highs that some often complain about were there even on this $600 amp. I just listen at a lower volume and then don’t have a problem with the treble. However, I then plugged them immediately into a Ray Samuels Emeline II The Raptor tube amp right next to it and only then did the DT 880 come alive with full rounded tubey globs of music pouring into the smiling parts of my brain.
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Ultimately, I find Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm optimal to use on tubes. Perhaps you are already set on Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm and could hang on at low listening volumes paired with Schiit Magni 3 plus, with possibility of tube amping them later on a future tube journey. If not, you may still enjoy them. After all, I got by with two decades of listening to Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 250-ohm on a $700 solid state amp the Ray Samuels Emmeline XP-7 Headphone Amp with AD797 OP-AMP upgrade.
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This is why I joined this forum. Thanks for your insight. I take it you think the 880 600 ohm will anemic on the Magni Plus?
That’s my challenge: eventually I plan to get the Midgard or its equivalent later on. I want a Beyerdynamic that in a way complements my HD6XX, and I think the 880 could fit that bill, but I’m a little concerned about power requirements. Though, I like to own headphones that can “grow” with my electronics.
It’s all relative to where you are going and what you shall be doing. Travel in a time machine back twenty years and I will be spouting that I only listen to headphones at very low volume and that my Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 250-ohm are the end game’s bee’s knees. Ask me today, and I will tell you step by step how to be a tube snob and that ONLY tubes matter when listening Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm. While solid state amplifiers do not bring to me a sense of magic that a tube will, you probably can equalize your setup to make your 600-ohm DT sound decent enough just as you have with your Beyerdynamic DT 770 250-ohm. So, to answer your question, me, today, yeah, the Magni Plus is a compromise as the Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO 600-ohm was designed for, and hungers for tubes. However, you may be happy with some tweaking to get it to perform adequately from your $100 level amp until you upgrade and upgrade again like the rest of us do.
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The other side of the coin;
A long time has past by since those days living with great compromises so my ears have been overly pampered by optimal amplifier/headphone pairings. I may be overly biased pairing with only tubes when it comes to 600-ohm Beyerdynamic DT headphones. I suggest you continue to ask around and get better feel from others that are also keeping budgets around $200 level of amplifiers to pair with 600-ohm Beyerdynamic DT headphones before making your decision.
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At the risk of being yet another bringer of temptation, @Tsumake, and adding to @hottyson’s comments. I note you are another fan of Schiit, and they still have the Valhalla on “Last Call” which means a rare lower price, and that it will be discontinued. I was very tempted by this as I wanted to at least experiment with not merely a tube amp, but one that was designed for high-impedance phones. I ended up getting something else, but that Valhalla would pair well with both headphones you mention.
I was also tempted by recent pricing on Beyer DT 880 Pro, but my wife relieved my stress by ordering me some ZMFs. Maybe it was the DT 990 Pro…
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I own the DT880 600 ohm. It’s an excellent sub-$200 product that competes with very expensive headphones in the mid-range and with vocals – after EQ and on an OTL tube amp. Still, it’s a sub-$200 product and I don’t use it nearly as much as my $1K+ headphones. The 880 doesn’t have deep bass and the treble artifacts must be filtered away, so it’s all about the midrange. Value, yes. Flawed and limited, yes.
My biggest issue with the 880 600 is piercing treble. It’s unlistenable and highly fatiguing when used without an equalizer or pad filters. I’ve run it to “okay” medium volume when set to maximum on my weak iFi ZenDAC V1. The ZenDAC is warm too, so it’s not a terrible match tonewise. I think you’ll have fully adequate volume on the Magni Plus, but you may or may not enjoy the timbre.
If buying in the $300 class I’d choose a Sennheiser HD600 or HD6XX over any Beyerdynamic such as the 770 or 880. I bought the 880 600 ohm to experiment with 600 ohm setups, knowing full well of Beyer’s reputation. If planning future upgrades on a budget, I’d save my money and look to the $1K headphone class.
Listen to @hottyson and @pennstac. Sidegrades may not keep you happy over the long term. Consider that many of us have said “this is my endgame” and then blown right through that several times over. Once you have higher priced equipment the flaws of the lower priced stuff will bug you and they are likely to go unused.
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What’s everyone’s take on DMS’s review on the 880 609 ohm?
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I hadn’t see that review. I half agree and half disagree. I consider the HD 600 to be closer to the HD 800 S than the DT 880 in rough character.
The HD 800 S is about stage width, delicacy, and precision. The DT880 600 competes with or beats the HD 800 S on midrange smoothness and detail. Only. The 800 S is relaxing, comfortable, expansive, and easy on the ears with the right setup (e.g., $500+ amps and $500+ DACs). In contrast, my efforts to control the DT 880’s treble always kills its staging. After correction it tends to sound muffled and small.
I am sensitive to treble, so this may not be an issue if you can handle Beyer’s out-of-box brightness and tuning.
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Ok, for context : I am not looking for endgame. I am looking to continue my journey and pick up interesting gear along the way.
The initial reason I got the DT 770 Pro 250 ohm is because I have a Hifiman EF2A, which has an output impedance of 30 ohms. Following the 8:1 rule of thumb I settled on the DT 770 because of price ( I’m still learning). I’ve heard good things about the 770 from contributors here so I set about exploring its capabilities.
My “best” headphone is a Focal Bathys. Even in bluetooth mode it beats any of my wired headphones. I could just put the Bathys in DAC mode and call it a day but I like seeing what my other headphones are capable of. What I like about high impedance phones is that they tend grow as you upgrade other facets of your system.
Which is one of the reasons why the DT 880 600 ohm interests me. I know what I mentioned above isn’t a hard rule (I’ve heard the 770 80 ohm sounds better for example), but it’s all part of the fun of the journey.
One day I’ll invest four figures into a headphone . For the time being I like exploring my tastes and refining what my preferences actually are.
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The DT 880 600 is unique and interesting. I do like it for what it does, and like it for its midrange. Based on my experience with this model, 600 ohm drivers are different than anything else on the market. Still, I now have paper filters in the cups and previously used thick Dekoni pads to cut the treble.
Go for it, but go in with your eyes open. It’s just $200.
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