Etymotic ER4XR In-ear Monitors - Official Thread

[Jmarz]

I just recently purchased both the Etymotic ER4XR and the Fiio E17k Alpine 2. I just got the Fiio a couple of hours ago, and I think it’s a keep.

I’m looking for a DAP that would work well with the two items. I notice that the FiiO X1-II Media Player is well regarded, but why would I need 2 DAC - the one in the amp and the one in the player? By that, I mean would it make sense to spend less money on a DAP although the FiiO X1-II is fairly inexpensive.

The Etymotic’s really do benefit from an amplifier (I like that I can adjust the gain).

Would appreciate some input.

p.s. Long time Headphone.com stalker. Bought a HeadRoom Desk Top Amp (probably 10 or 12 years ago?) and it’s still going strong.

[Torq]

Most of the budget DAPs won’t drive a USB DAC at all. So you’d have to use their analog output into the analog input on the E17K. This is likely to be less than satisfactory because a) such budget DAPs (like the X1 Mk2) probably won’t sound as good as using the DAC in the E17K and b) unless said DAP has a true line-out, you’ll be dual-amping, which will increase noise etc.

And then most DAPs that can drive an external USB DAC will a) have a better DAC than is in the E17K and b) have a better (and likely more powerful) amp than is in the E17K. And since such units can often be used as USB DACs themselves, they sort of render things like the E17K redundant.

[pwjazz]

@Torq

you’ll be dual-amping

A bit of a tangent, but could you please explain this a bit more? My primitive understanding is that DAC chips don’t put out 2V rms directly but that DAC units include an amplifier after the chip to reach line-level voltage. IIUC, the reason that this isn’t really an issue is that the line-out usually feeds and amplifier which if properly designed has a really high input impedance, which makes it an easy load to drive and reduces noise and distortion coming from the DAC’s line out.

[Torq]

I’m referring to a case where there is not a proper line-out from the DAP and instead you’re having to feed the external amp from the DAPs headphone output.

In most cases, following the DAC chip you’ll have an I/V stage (and usually a buffer). That’ll feed the line-out and also the input to the DAPs internal headphone amplifier.

The headphone output is usually an additional circuit (ranging from an op-amp to a fully discrete amplifier) with much greater power capacity and, typically, comparatively significant additional latent noise as a result (for a given gain setting, only the level of the input signal is varied, so noise endemic to the gain stage is constant).

So instead of:

DAC IC -> I/V Stage -> Buffer -> Line-Out

You’re getting:

DAC IC -> I/V Stage -> [Buffer] -> Attenuation -> Headphone Amplifier -> Headphone Out

Sometimes the “line-out” is just the same path as the headphone output, but run at a “fixed” level of attenuation (usually via digital level control). But if there’s a gain stage there capable of delivering more than nominal power it’ll still add a constant level of noise.

[generic]

@Torq

Sometimes the “line-out” is just the same path as the headphone output, but run at a “fixed” level of attenuation (usually via digital level control). But if there’s a gain stage there capable of delivering more than nominal power it’ll still add a constant level of noise.

@pwjazz

My Q5 concretely illustrates different circuits: the DAC line out is permanently attached with a cable connection at the top and has fixed voltage/volume. The “headphone amp” modules attach to the bottom and go through the output circuitry (e.g., volume wheel). They even sell a dummy/empty amp module to facilitate charging in DAC only mode.

The technical specs for the line out are equal or superior to even the balanced listening amp output. In the real world, I’ve found the line out to be cleaner and more consistent when run into another amp.

Way back when I had a home theater 5.1 amp with a switch to turn off the tone controls and display screen. Similar concept, I think that was just a bypass circuit.

[MartinXYZ]

Wait. This is a thing? This is seriously making me reconsider buying Etymotic IEMs. While I would love to have the isolation they provide, I am not interested in having the tips come off in my ears.

[pwjazz]

@MartinXYZ

This is a thing?

I’ve never had it happen with my HF5s. Personally, I find the triple flange tips painful to take in and out, so I try to avoid it when possible. Once they’re in there, they’re not the most comfortable things in the world but I get used to it after they’ve been in for a while, and the isolation is fantastic for flying.

[Torq]

@MartinXYZ

This is a thing?

@pwjazz

I’ve never had it happen with my HF5s.

I’ve never had it happen with my original ER4-S, which I owned for 20 years and must have spent a good million flying miles in my ears, and probably a similar amount of time in use on the ground.

Never had it happen with my newer ER4-XR either.

I agree with @pwjazz that the triple -flange tips are not the most comfortable things to wear (though I did get used to them eventually) - but they remain the best for isolation I’ve found. The Spinfit CP240 are not bad in that regard either … though they’d need the inserts to fit the ER4-XR I think (will have to try it here in a few).

[MartinXYZ]

That makes me a bit less worried, thanks.

[prfallon69]

I had a set of ER4-XR and try as I might I just couldn’t get used to the deep insertion. Though for isolation they are really good.

[pwjazz]

I’ve never gotten entirely used to them either and use them only for air travel. I think some of it has to do with the shape of my ear canal. I had custom molds made once and they’re hard to insert because my ear canals are shaped like a Z. I think the deep insertion tips basically force that Z into something more like a straight line, which is not comfortable

[prfallon69]

I have a funny left inner ear so I have been told. But I have not come across any real problems. It’s just that I just couldn’t gel with the Etymotic’s and with not being able to get the fit right the sound wasn’t right either. So I returned them.

[jflores476]

I read that the Ety’s had to be pushed in until the tips touched each other inside your head. That’s why I’ve never tried them…

[prfallon69]

Hi @jflores476 yes as you’re probably aware they are an iem which isn’t for everyone. But if you can put up with the deep insertion they are supposed to be some of the best. They just weren’t for me sadly. Sorry for the late response I am in the UK so a little time difference and I was otherwise engaged. . Nice to chat though.

[antdroid]

I just picked up the Etymotics ER2XR and I am really enjoying it. I also have the ER3SE. The ER2 series uses a dynamic driver instead of the BA used in the ER3 and ER4 series. While the DD driver is pretty fast and the general sound signature is Etymotic, the XR version of the ER2 has more boosted bass and with the DD, I find the timbre to be a little more natural and works well with rock music.

The mids are less forward as the ER3SE, which is a little to be expected as well. The DD driver used in the ER2 is pretty good. Still very detailed, though maybe a 95% of the BA quality.

[Jaethan]

Great review-- I’ve been wondering about these as a recommend for people that want Etymotic isolation but can’t spring for ER4XRs.

[generic]

Having just purchased these (see What's in the box!), here are my initial impressions.

• They need break in, and do respond to an amp. Initial phone and PC output was quiet, V shaped, and sssssssuper ssssssibiant. Very breathy. After running them all night this improved, and they improved on an amp. This may be a function of the natural resonance of their long and narrow sound tubes. It’s as if all the high end gets blocked from outside so the relative sssssss volume increases in one’s ears.

• Both the small and large triple triple flange tips lasted about 30 seconds in my ears. Weird and loose with no bass, or just weird. The factory foam tips are fine, and allow one to adjust seating depth conventionally.

• These are isolation masters. Nothing I own outside of Sony ANCs comes close. Wind noise, vacuum cleaners, and speech fully disappear. All that remains are deep bass rumbles from the environment (e.g., trucks going by). As @LeCe, @pwjazz and @Torq touch on – they seem strongest as a compact air travel device (which is indeed why I bought them). I’d choose other products when isolation isn’t required.

• Yes, @Lalakai and @Jaethan, the cable is wildy microphonic. But, with these so is my cheek! They block so much noise that everything else can be heard.

• Chinese IEMs have become respectable regardless of price (2nd or 3rd generation Chinese products). The overall sound quality and presentation isn’t terribly different, but the Chinese tend to trade sssssssibilance for piercing fatigue. My first reaction was to think of KZ.

[frudogg]

Always bring these to travel. I am using yellow Shure foam tips which are pretty comfortable and give a good seal. I’m driving them with an audioquest cobalt from my phone. Amazing to have such quality sound from stuff I can put in a pocket.
The noise reduction is pretty good and they sound better than my wife’s Sony WH1000XM3 active noise cancelling cans.

[antdroid]

Etymotic XR Shoot-Out

Etymotic has made high value in-ear phones that push good resolution and a highly controlled and highly isolating sound to people for many, many years now. Over the past few years, they’ve slightly deterred away from their traditional diffuse-field-like take on sound target, and added a more consumer friendly bass bump that adds more bass extension and slightly elevated bass response in a line called the Extended Range series, or also known as the XR series.

The XR line is available on all their current generation premium models, such as their flagship ER4XR, as well as the lower cost ER3XR and the dynamic driver ER2XR. In this quick shoot-out, I’ll provide my analysis and impressions of all three and let you know which I ended up choosing in the end. The results may surprise you.

ER2XR

The ER2XR has been discussed in a previous review where I discussed the ER2SE and the ER2XR. This is Etymotic’s dynamic driver-based in-ear which comes in at about $129 normally on Amazon, though it’s MSRP is really higher than that. The ER2XR’s bass in comparison to the others is significantly more lifted, and it’s quite noticeable as it does transition further into the mid-range making it the warmest sounding of the bunch. Since it also has a dynamic driver, I feel like it’s sound does come out as more natural sounding with slower decay and resonance than the other two, which are balanced armature drivers and have quicker speed.

The main knock down I have on the ER2XR is that it’s a step down in resolution from the ER3 and ER4, though not but a lot, and its more lifted bass shelf, gives it a more smeared sound, with less definition in the lower mid-range, although some may prefer this for a more thick and engaging sound that makes it differ a lot from every other Etymotic I’ve ever tried.

ER3XR

The ER3 series is a lower cost version of the ER4 coming in between $149 and $179 USD, with some small tweaks. At least that’s how I’ve read anyway. Whether if it’s all true or not is another story. The main differences that have been confirmed are that it’s built in China and it has lower tolerances for channel matching than the ER4, which is also made in the USA. The ER3 also measures slightly warmer and laid-back, though if one were to use a 23 ohm in-line adapter, the ER3 measures nearly identical to the ER4, which leads many to believe that the main difference is an additional resistor in the ER4. There could be different BA drivers employed too however.

Anyway, the ER3XR is the most laid-back tuning of the 3 XRs. It has the least amount of shout and lowest rise at 3-4KHz, and also downslopes steeper into the treble region, making it also the darkest of the 3. That’s not to say it’s dark sounding. It’s not. It does lack some energy that the other two have however if you crave that.

The ER3XR also has a slightly higher bass boost over the ER4XR but still well below the bass shelf over the ER2XR. It’s still a BA driving the low end, which gives this a nice balance of bass rise and speed and that helps give this a little more definition than the ER2XR, and a little more emphasis than the ER4XR.

ER4XR

The ER4XR was the first of this series and also commands the biggest price, at around $299 to $349 USD. It has the highest channel matching tolerance, which extends matching throughout the frequency response and not just up to 1KHz. It’s also made in the USA, unlike the other two. The other major difference is that it comes with more accessories, including a second set of each tip choice, and a larger zippered protection case as well as the small zippered pouch that comes with the other two. This larger case has internal zippered pockets that can store accessories and other goodies and is even large enough to carry my Digital Audio Player along with the earphones and more.

In my opinion, the ER4XR is the leanest sounding of the bunch, although, some may prefer that it has more energy up at 3KHz and a little more treble overall than the ER3XR. This keeps it from sounding a touch dark like the ER3XR does. I find that the ER4XR can be a bit shouty and the 3-5KHz range peaks a little more than I like, given that the bass response isn’t as elevated as the other two. In general, while I find it is the clearest and cleanest of the units, I actually find it too be the most difficult to listen to.

So, which did I end up liking the most?

After going through all the pros and cons of each, I picked the ugly duckling here: the ER3XR, which probably gets the least consideration of the two. The ER2XR is liked because it has a dynamic driver, and the ER4XR is the flagship product, however I find the ER3XR is the best balance of the two, with a slightly elevated bass response and the least amount of 3K rise that gives it a more comfortable listen. Yes, it’s a tad darker than the other two, but I’ll take that over the sharper rise as it doesn’t create a fatiguing listen for me.

[transmaster]

NASA spent several million dollars developing a ballpoint pen that would work in microgravity The Fisher Space Pen. The Russians just used pencils.