Final Audio D8000 over-ear planar magnetic Headphones - Official Thread

Got myself a nice present for christmas, a D8000pro for a very nice price (openbox 2.5k).
Such a different experience to my Verite Open.
Sometimes on the edge of my tolerance around (the often mentioned) 4-5k, but incredible how they can show me details from lows to highs, i never heard before…wow!

I listen to the D8000pro (and ZMF VO) through the Headphone out of the Hugo2 (mostly Tidal).

I never had the chance to listen to a separate „highend“ amp so…
What amp would you recommend after the Hugo2 (as a DAC) around 2000$ For D8kpro and VO?
I‘m looking for a slightly (but not overly) warm amp,
that can „control“ the edges (D8kpro)
GSX Mini? Elise? Ifi ican? A&S forge?

Thanks!!

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Holy crap. Thats cheaper than used. Massive GZ!

Let me start this by saying I own D8KP and forge currently and had the mini and hugo2 as parts of my main setup for quite a while in the past as well. The other items you have listed Ive heard in passing at best so treat my comments there as speculation.


For amps that will work with both, imo, that’s not going to be super easy. In my experience the pros don’t tube super well. They are very source forgiving so they are good but not as good as a solid state would get you in a similar price range in my experience. For the forge specifically I would pass as i don’t find it plays well with the D8KP loosing a great deal of its staging magic but still having its resolution limitations. Its to the point that when speaking of D8KP specifically I would probably pick a Vio V280 over the forge even if the prices were swapped. The forge just really cant work its magic on the D8KP for some reason.

Given your ask about the forge, would you be able to budget for 1 amp for each? Or is the forge already a stretch? Further, would you be open to ditching the hugo2 and get a desktop dac? I ask because if you can manage a more of 3k budget that would allow you to get 1 better amp for each can than even 2.5k will allow you to get a single amp that works with both. Another option is keeping the D8KP on the hugo2 and using your budget for an amp you will primarily use with VO but I dont think this choice makes sense unless you spend a lot of time needing a transportable setup (and I say this as someone who has 8 portable amps and tried almost all TOTL daps currently out).

For the D8KP specifically the mini is actually a pretty solid pick. The D8KP in my experience is a true texture champion with a narrower but deep stage and slightly lean vocals/vaguely thin treble. This matches up quite well with the mini that is also a texture champ with smaller but deep stage and some good tonal density to off set the D8KP. It can still get a bit hot in the treble but very very few amps control that perfectly IMO and none are easy to find. The other question is, are you willing to double down in a small/deep stage and willing to give up some of the leading edge impact that the mini struggles with? I personally make different choices when prioritizing the D8KP but the mini may well be the best option for both the VO and D8KP in one amp.

just FWIW, if you are willing to get rid of the hugo2, imo, you can do similar SQ on a desktop dac for less or even better SQ for a similar price to what you will get for the hugo2. Again, IMO, the hugo2 only makes sense to keep if you spend a large portion of your time transportable/portable.

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D8000: Pro vs OG

@flashbolt and I were talking about the differences between the D8000 and D8000 Pro and I figured I may as well just post my impressions publicly.

My Gear Preferences I think its important to understand someone's tastes to truly understand how they describe a headphone. I will start by saying I am not a stickler for harman. Instead I prefer what I would refer to as a "fairly balanced signature". This means that bass boost vs flat and bright vs dark treble don't really matter to me so long as the sections are balanced within themselves and flow together without sounding disjointed. The three tonal dislikes I have are: lack of sub bass extension, thin mids, and uneven treble (I get some massive fatigue issues with some treble tunings but it doesn't seem to be tied to bright/dark).

Outside of tonality I pretty highly value timbre (and especially timbre of horns/wood winds) and reproduction of room reverb. While I raw detail retrieval isn’t the dead top of my list, I do highly value it and don’t tend to use headphones below TOTL levels of it regardless of my love for anything/everything else about them. Lastly, stage size doesn’t play a particular role in my enjoyment of a can (so long as its not miniscule at least) but separation and layering absolutely do.

Lastly, I listen quite soft. I generally turn cans up to where they sound best, but I do tend to prefer cans that play well at my extremely low listening levels of mid 50dB peaks (yes, you read that right) over cans that need to be louder. Luckily most stuff has a pretty even playing field here as the only two cans I have found that perform exceptionally at these volumes are LCD-R and Soli P. Not even utopia likes playing that low. Everything else gets cranked till it sounds great (typically average of ~70-75dB)

As for music I listen to, its honestly just about everything. I am not a massive fan of trap/harder rap but do have some in my library anyways. My most listened to genres are likely older jazz (everything from big band/bebop to rat pack/fitzgerald), Lofi (of basically any kind be it acoustic cafe jazz or hiphop), neo-soul (Saela Sue/Winehouse/Raphael Saadiq), and finaly modern electronic rock (think anything between synthwave and Tasha Sultan)

So just off the bat, the D8000 and D8000 Pro are very very different headphones. It is to the point that if they didnt come in the same chassis you couldn’t possibly guess they were related to each other. Because I feel the Pros are better known in the west I will start with them.

D8000 Pro

Overall a well balanced true TOTL can with extraordinary texture that is both source transparent and one of the most source forgiving TOTL cans I have used (they generally sound better on SS than tubes IMO but they are yet to really not play well with something). They are quite neutral with good extension and are easy to run. IMO the incredible texture they offer while not having any gret misgivings absolutely allows them to compete with the greats such as Susava, Utopia, and Solitaire P.

Sound Break Down

Tonality: Overall the Pros are a very neutral can. Well extended with ever so slightly thin mids (though significantly more tonally dense than hifiman), I personally think the only tonal ‘misstep’ (if you can even call it that when compared to the competition) is that the treble can get slightly hot on some setups (though I still find them less fatiguing than susvara or utopia).

Stage: I would consider them fairly middle of the road. While not grand and expansive (like HD800S or Solitaire P) they also aren’t exceptionally narrow (Diana V2 with a full seal) and have very solid depth (not quite as deep as DV2 but I would put it similar to utopia).

Detail: This is also quite middle of the road (for a TOTL can). A comfortable competitor to Utopia and a step above DV2 on most setups, but still half a step behind something like susvara I find it absolutely within the range of TOTL cans but not the outright champ.

Timbre: Once again I find the Pros very middle of the road. They don’t have shocking timbre like susvara or raal but they also don’t have major misgivings with it like Utopia and Solitaire P.

Texture: IMO, this is where the pros truly stand out. Even amongst heavyweights like susvara and utopia it is truly unrivaled by anything else I’ve ever owned.

And yes, I know many will not like the usage of this term due to it being so hard to quantify. Its not detail or timbre, but it somehow incorporates both. Honestly, I am not going to do a good job explaining what texture is so I will leave that to someone else. Ultimately though, I think most with TOTL experience will at least know what I am referring to

Honestly, I do absolutely have cans I subjectively prefer over the Pros, but I still don’t see them leaving my collection any time soon anyways. Their absurd source transparency and general forgivingness make them excellent for evaluating gear. Pair this with texture I haven’t even found in susvara and I think they make a lot of sense to keep around. My personal misgivings with the Pros are pretty minimal if I am honest. I would like a bit more body in the mids and these cans dont sound their best at lower volumes (mids can get even thinner and the treble peak becomes more prominent), but they are honestly in my top 5 for low level play as is anyways.

D8000 (OG)

Laid back, vast, and rich the D8000s truly nail emotion within music. Honestly, the D8000s have what may be the best tuning I’ve heard. Think Empy but bigger stage, better usage of the stage and no fatigue, all while having better technical performance to boot. People often say that the Pros sound like dynamic drivers, and I do get where they are coming from, but IMO the D8000s sound far far more like dynamics than the pros (and I find that a very good thing). Source wise they arent as agnostic as the Pros but they are still fairly forgiving and tube excellently.

Sound Break Down

I ran out of time to write this section today. Ill bump the post when I get a chance to do it (hopefully by the end of the week? but not positive)

Tonality:

Stage:

Detail:

Timbre:

Texture:

If I am completely honest, my entire personal misgivings with the D8000s is just that I am massively spoiled from a technical perspective. With similar detail and separation as cans such as Arya/Clear/etc, I just find myself looking for a bit more. In areas such as organicness/liquidity, texture, timbre, and dynamics I do think that the D8000 pulls ahead of these cans enough to be completely justifiable (at least at its used costs), but the loss of detail is simply past my personal level of acceptance when comparing to cans such as utopia, Susvara, Solitaire P, and even the Pros themselves.

Comparison

This is just going to be a rough comparison between the cans. If you would like me to add anything to it specifically just ask.

Category Ranking
Tonality Subjective, but I prefer OG
Stage Width OG >>> Pro
Stage Depth OG << Pro
Detail OG <<< Pro
Timbre OG > Pro
Texture OG < Pro
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Hi Eskamobob,

What an excellent feedback, Thanks a lot!
Food for Thought…
Looks like that finding an Amp for VO an D8KP will be a tricky thing.
At our local shop in Switzerland they have the Burson-Lineup that i can/will try and LakePeople / Violectric have their „Headquarter“ 100km from my place, so i will visit them soon.

Until then I‘ll enjoy the incredible D8KP out of Hugo2 :slightly_smiling_face:

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So it looks like the quicksilver amp may be worth a shot. I was just reading this review by chance this AM and it got a very heavy req for both D8KP and VC from someone who’s gear opinions I tend to quite agree with. Its on the lower end of your budget to boot!

EDIT: This actually makes me think and there is actually a tube amp I have that I think has solid potential with the D8KP. That is the phatlab Phantasy II. A bit on the dryer side its got some real solid timbre and fantastically deep stage. The reason I dont like the pairing is because that specific amp exacerbates the Pros treble issues but the overall tonality and presentation work super well with the pros. Its completely possible my impression of “pros dont tube well” is just that I dont own many dryer tube amps.

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That Quicksilver review is really impressive.
Thanks!
Will test the Burson Soloist with D8KP & VO at the local Store as a Refererence to the Quicksilver.

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Tried the following amps(dacs) with the D8000pro at our supernice local dealer in Zurich, Switzerland:

Tidal (Phone) > Hugo 2 > Burson Soloist:
(Switched between Hugo 2 Headphone out and Soloist)
Only minimal differences / perhaps a tiny bit more impact/slam with soloist? Couldn‘t tell in a blindtest. Same width/depth with or without soloist

Tidal (Phone) > Hugo 2 > Xi Audio Formula S (because it was there, not that i‘d buy one):
Switched between Hugo 2 Headphone out and Formula S >
Similar as with the Soloist……perhaps a tiny bit more lowend and a little thicker overall.

Tidal (Phone) > Hugo TT2 (Headphone out):
TT2 vs Hugo2 was a really obvious improvement in width and depth, more clarity, more detail, a bit „warmer“ or fuller vocals. Really nice!!

Until now i only listened to D8Kp through my Hugo 2, and it was my first time adding an „proper“ amp after the Hugo2.

All in all the only substantial improvement was the Hugo TT2, which I really liked, but the price!

I have to „learn“ to listen for nuances between amps… :-).

Should there be an obvoius benefit (Soundquality) with an amp after H2 or is the Hugo2 enough power for the (easy to drive) d8Kp?

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You’ll hear a difference, usually better amps will give smoother treble reproduction, often better bass control, tonal density will change, staging will change. Exactly how they change will vary by amp.
Once you get away from the extreme measurement focused amps with a ton of feedback, amps can sound very different to one another.
It’s very much not about power.
I’m very partial to the D8000 Pro on my Stratus, but they generally work pretty well on almost anything.
And Yes DAC’s also make a difference.

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tbh the hugo2 is pretty solid as an AOI portable but its dac will absalutely hold back nicer amps. If you want to hear something thats quite a bit different than hugo2 as an amp I would give a vio V280/281 a shot. very different signature and presentation that will work even when using the hugo2 in LO

EDIT: Hugo2 has enough power to drive d8kp but different amps will give different presentations. tbh if you are moving to a desktop rig I would probably recommend dicthing the hugo2 for a higher quality dac (hugo2 is good for a portable but is beaten by a lot of desktop dacs at or even slightly below its used value) to go alongside the new amp

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Thanks!
Which DAC‘s do you have in mind?

that is going to entirely depend on the sound you want, your budget, and what amp you pick. Aiming to satusfy ZMF and D8000 Pro I would focus on texture and separation for the dac and probably pick an amp that a bit drier and more holographic. For specifics kinda need some help from someone that knows the european market a bit better. for, say, $3500 USD I may go with something like a BF2 → a DNA Stratus (just cause one is up for sale currently) and upgrade the dac further down the line, but neither of those will be easy to come across in europe. The BF2 is on a similar total technical level as the hugo2 (loosing in outright resolution but winning in texture stage dynamics by a fair margin IMO) but I think makes a bit more sense to try and maximise what those cans can do. Another couple amps I actualy quite liked with D8000 Pros (but have no idea how well they would work with VC tbh) <3k are the CMA800R and Hypsos+oor combo. I also suspect the GSX-mini would pair well but I havent tried that combo myself and that amp can have unexpected synergy issues in my experience (I expected it to play very well with HD800S and it very much so did not play well for an example).

TBH though there are just better people to talk to about desktop gear in this range. My knowledge and experience is pretty heavily focused in totl portables (DAPs and amps). Over all though you will probabaly want to figure out what kind of direction you want to go (do you want a super linear chain? dry spacious tubes? warm and gooey? How much resolution are you willing to give up on for organicness? etc) and then start realy building a chain from there. If you are kinda lost as to what to do I dont think the TT2 is actualy a horrid option here (not sure its what I would do but its not a bad pick overall) if you like it. Another option would be to just play with a few lower cost amps such as the quicksilver to try and get a better idea of what you like from the cans and what you want to do with them. requing for two cans that are so different is a bit hard without knowing exactly what you are after tbh

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I keep forgetting you have a stratus. What would you look for in a dac for this combo? It kinda seems to me that the best bang for the buck VC+D8KP chain would probabaly be something fairly similarly voiced to DNA

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Bifrost 2 is Good, it’s still my go to DAC under 1K, and it pairs well with the DNA.
But you can stand to go higher level than that, I’m running an Aqua LaVoce S3 into mine.

There is a lot of personal preference in these choices, what is the improvement worth to you, what do you value in the sound, any DNA is going to be VERY different than the Chord sound. If your looking for “thin” open sounding, it’s not what the DNA does.

FWIW my preference for the D8000 Pro from a Stratus is to run it SE Low output -6dB’s which gives you the lowest possible output impedance and highest possible current delivery.

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I always forget stuff like the La Voce/Amber 3/mystique v3/etc exist (all caught up in only wanting small dacs). Not sure how the synergy overall would work there but given they can all be had sub 3k used if you are patient they aren’t bad bets for a tt2 priced chain

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Again, excellent feedback E. & P.
Thanks!

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NP in the slightest. I hope we actualy helped instead of just making everything more confusing :joy:

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I’ve been listening to the D8000 for a handful of days now and I have to say that I am completely floored by it and the quality with which it presents almost any song played through them.

After speaking with @Eskamobob1 and doing a little bit of my own further research I learned that, at least on paper, the D8000 was my ideal sound signature. It wasn’t until I actually got them on my head did I realize just how true that was.

Bass - Floored, absolutely floored. The D8000 has in my opinion, the perfect amount of bass. However, the D8000 has more than simple quantity of bass. It’s heavy, encompassing, and impactful. I feel it in my chest, particularly on tracks with well implemented kicks and 808s. Infected Mushroom is godlike through these cans. The best part of the D8000’s bass is that it doesn’t come at the sacrifice of the rest of the frequency range, like is the case with many other cans.

Mids - Mids shine on this set of cans if you ask me. Vocals, both male and female, are buttery smooth, like heavy cream being poured into my ears. I HIGHLY recommend anyone with a set of these to listen to the entire Dreamland album by Glass Animals and thank me later when you have one of the most magical experiences of your life.

Highs - The highs in my opinion present well overall and are not over-emphasized or sibilant. There were only a few tracks where I felt like I would have wanted to EQ just a tad, but ultimately wasn’t enough of a problem for me to bother EQing.

All of my listening has been done through the A90/D90 stack, but I have the OOR + HYPSOS stack on the way in addition to a Benchmark DAC3 b that I can’t wait to listen to these gorgeous headphones through!

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Nice writeup @Arkitecc. Also, Hello and Welcome. I haven’t tried this mighty headphone yet but would love to. Again thank you for your thoughts.

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Hi there!

Thanks so much for your kind words and warm welcome! I definitely recommend picking up a pair if you get a chance, they’re not cheap but both the build quality and the sound that they deliver are honestly worth it, especially at a used price.

I’m realizing now that I didn’t talk much about soundstage in my original post, only the frequency range.

To amend that, I’ll say that the previous headphones I was working with were the HiFiMan Arya’s. And while the Arya’s do have a much wider stage than the D8000’s do, I feel like you are missing out on a lot of what makes the D8000 so enjoyable with the Arya.

I had heard once someone describe the Arya’s soundstage as a party trick. I honestly forget who I heard that from or I would credit them for it, but after hearing the D8000 I have to agree with them. Arya has great bass extension, and great soundstage, but it’s missing out on a lot of the finer details and liveliness of the D8000 that in my opinion make it a much better experience.

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You know I remember auditioning the original D-8000’s at a Headphone show for a little under an hour. I put on Master of Reality by Black Sabbath and ended up just listening to the whole album. It was so much fun. Great headphone. They really emphasize the ‘fun listen’ rather than the clinical.

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