Realized I didn’t answer your question - I just need a DAC. I would jump to the Yggy if space permitted given it’s supposed to be a super version of the BF2 and I’ve read plenty of praise for it, but alas! I’ll have to do some digging on the Benchmark DAC3 and the Matrix once the time comes sounds like based on the replies to this thread.
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I’m trying to choose between Hifiman Sundara and Shure SE846. But I think the real question is headphones vs IEM (those two are just what’s on my radar right now). I know they have different uses and different sound characteristics, but still, maybe it is possible to compare them sound-wise.
For the most part, ~80% of time, I’ll use the headphones/earphones at my desk to listen to music in a quiet environment, so mobility/sound isolation is not that important. But definitely I also need something I could use in bed (so something comfortable on the pillow), outdoors and for doing calls (sidetone would be nice especially for well isolated earphones, but it’s not a must) - all that ~20% of time.
At first glance looks like I’d have to buy headphones to use at my desk and earphones for the other use cases. But I was wandering, maybe buying a pair of very good earphones would eliminate the need of buying headphones? Usage-wise, earphones can substitute headphones, but headphones cannot substitute earphones (especially in bed).
My budget is roughly $1k, but prefer not to spend that much if I don’t need to.
In general I prefer a well balanced sound with well defined mids, detailed highs and clear, but not overwhelming bass. Occasionally I do some audio editing so there’s the use case of audio monitors.
Currently I’m considering two options:
- Going for a very good pair of earphones as a all-purpose solution and not using headphones at all. Currently I’m thinking about Shure SE846. They have an optional cable with mic and also there’s a BT option.
- Going for a good pair headphones that will be used primarily and also buying some “acceptable” earphones. I’m looking at Hifiman Sundara and Shure 215.
But I’m open to other recommendations if you have any.
So effectively what I’m doing right now is trying to compare Sundaras with Shure SE846, which is not a comparison you usually make. Unfortunately I don’t have an option to try them out before making the purchase.
So yeah, what’s “better” sound quality-wise, Sundaras or Shure SE846? I’d appreciate your opinions. Also, how IEM compare to headphones in general? Thanks!
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You alluded to this several times, but you cannot really compare IEM’s to over-ears other than simple tonality, and even then it’s subjective (based on your preference). Also, we cannot tell you which of those two transducers is better - it’s just too subjective.
Some things to think about:
- You should not use the Sundaras, or any open-back headphone, in bed or outdoors/on the go.
- You can add an external mic for calls to over-ears, but most don’t include that functionality out of the box.
- The Sundaras will greatly benefit from an amplifier due to their lowish sensitivity. Do you already have one?
- Most IEMs will run off your phone or a DAP - no extra money needed to feed them.
At this point, since you cannot demo either of these before purchasing, I’d like to ask, what is your reference? Without having some sort of reference, this could be a crap-shoot. Also, what led you to the SE846 and Sundara?
Finally, with a $1000 budget, why not get a pair of headphones and a decent IEM? Again, audition if you can before purchasing, but the Sundara is $350, and amp for it costs $100-$200, and then you have nearly half your budget left for a decent IEM.
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Obi-Wan Kenobi would say, “This is not the frequency response you are looking for.”
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I agree with the advice by @Nuance, especially about your preferences being subjective.
You express an interest in “a well balanced sound with well defined mids, detailed highs and clear, but not overwhelming bass.” This is helpful. But quite a few headphones under $1K meet those criteria, to a certain extent. A few more details would be more useful for us to give you advice:
- What IEMs and headphones have you heard and which did you like, and why?
- As importantly, which did you dislike? Why?
- Have you heard the Sundara or Shure IEMs? I ask because it’s not clear why you’ve identified those ones.
- What kinds of music do you listen to?
Answers to these questions will help us get a better sense of your preferences. If you can’t answer them, don’t worry. In that case, my advice would be to budget less for the purchase - you don’t want to drop up to a grand without knowing that you’ll get what’s right for you. Buy used, so there’s less of a loss on resale, or keep your budget low.
How important is making calls? If it were me and calls were unimportant, I’d get a cheap pair of headphones for calls and would invest the most of my money in a pair of headphones or IEMs that are maximized to do one thing well: play music beautifully.
I’ve not heard the Shure IEMs but both of the ones you mention are quite long in the tooth now. They were leading IEMs at their price points a good many years ago. But I’m not sure they’re competitive any more. The IEM market has really exploded in the past couple of years, and there are some excellent ones out there, especially in your price range. @prfallon69 had a pair of the Shure SE846, I believe, and he might be able to comment on them.
If you want a high-performance bargain pair of IEMs, look into the Drop x JVC HA-FDX1 IEMs, which are currently on sale for $175, down from the usual $250 (actually, I think they can be had currently for $154 if you use the “SAVE21” discount code).
If your budget stretches a bit further, you might consider the widely-praised Moondrop Blessing 2 ($320), which has upended the price-to-performance ratio of the IEM market.
Well regarded mid-tier IEMs include the Dunu SA6 ($550), which I’ve heard and think is an excellent pair of IEMs for the price. The Dunu Zen is a bit pricier but I found it to be too piercing (this is just a matter of preference; others like @Dynamic like it very much), and it might be worth considering. And then there are several releases by ThieAudio, including the Clairvoyance ($700) and the Monarch ($730), which are pricier again but very highly regarded. Also, the Moondrop S8 ($700) might be worth considering, as might the Variations ($520). It’s still new, and there aren’t many reviews yet, but the Campfire Audio Holocene ($650) might be suitable, too.
For open back headphones, you might consider the HiFiMAN Ananda. Make sure you get one from an authorized dealer with the full warranty. HiFiMAN makes nice-sounding headphones (to some listeners) but they have quality control and durability issues. There’s also a BT version of this headphone. It’s fairly easy to drive, so you wouldn’t need a powerful amp. Other mid-tier headphones to consider are those by Audeze and Dan Clark Audio. The Audeze LCD-GX Gaming Headphones ($900), though, might be easier to drive (check this, I’m not entirely sure), and they come nicely setup for you to make calls. Look for comments by @TylersEclectic about them on the forum here, he really liked them. Finally, the Focal Clear are a great pair of headphones (I have them) and they’re on a kind of closeout sale only with headphonesdotcom for $990. They’re fairly easy to drive but you’d need either a decent DAP or a DAC/amp to do justice to their abilities.
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Hi all -
First post, but excited to learn more.
I am looking for my first high-end set of headphones. I have one caveat that, from what I understand, will make some cringe a bit - they must be wireless.
Over-ear or IEM is OK. Price is pretty flexible, but I am hoping to stay at sub $1,000. For the right piece, I can certainly be moved a bit.
I really want to invest in something that will be a wonderful escape and experience. Having spent my formative years in jazz bands, I firmly believe in music’s ability to offer that transcendent escape. Older now, I can treat myself to something nice.
They would only see home use and would predominantly be used for listening to music (Hard Rock & Jazz primarily), meditation (big priority use case) and podcasts, YouTube videos, etc.
I don’t want a big setup, but something I can quickly put on and go into a quiet corner of the house away from wife and baby and . . . escape. Will be streaming from either iPhone or Microsoft Surface Book.
Thanks!
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Welcome.
My first question is whether you require integrated wireless functionality (e.g., common Bose and Sony active noise canceling style), or if you can live with a small external wireless device? These allow one to use wired headphones away from a set location, but you’ll have a wire and small box in your pocket.
The external boxes open many more options.
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As an FYI you can separate the wireless from the headphones.
There are small gadgets that contain a battery, wireless (bluetooth), dac and amp which you can plug a standard headphone into. This lets you pick the headphone you want without the constraint of the headphone itself being wireless.
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Awesome! Thanks, both @NickZ and @generic.
As long as it’s something relatively small (in the pocket and can be moved around the house easily, set on the arm of a couch, etc.), I am all good. Just trying not to set up a studio or audio room type of thing.
We could then assume $1k-ish total spend though, again, a few hundred for the right setup is not going to kill me by any means.
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I use the Qudelix 5K for this. It’s roughly the size of a pack of gum and has a clip so I attach it to a shirt or pocket and then I can move around freely.
Bluetooth range is typically 20-30 feet so you don’t have to bring the phone/laptop with you.
There are other products also but I like the 5K because it has a lot of features (including eq). You set the device options with an iphone or android app. After that you don’t have to run the app unless you want to change some settings.
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In addition to the Qudelix, see these vendors for ideas and a start (no personal experience):
https://www.fiio.com/bluetooth_products (BTR series)
For $1K+, I’d likely pair one of these bluetooth boxes with an easy-to-drive Focal headphone.
So, forgive me for the ignorance here, but I plug headphones into that piece and I have made “Bluetooth” headphones? That opens up so much, if so. . . which I guess would change things to a bit of a more rounded “What headphones?”
You plug most any old garden variety headphone into the box, and the box delivers both bluetooth and the electrical power to run the headphones. HOWEVER, many high-end headphones require more power than these little boxes can provide. So, you can severely downgrade some headphones with a little box. (e.g., Focal is good for these devices, Dan Clark Audio very bad).
Edit: Bluetooth has maximum speed limits too, so most will still sound better on wire.
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So maybe I am looking at something like FiiO BT5 (About $150) and then something like the Focal Celestee, Clear (MG?), Elex or maybe the LCD-X?
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This thread has some useful comparisons between the BTR5 and the Qudelix.
Or if you don’t feel like reading, @dynamic is our resident expert on the Qudelix.
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I disagree with the idea that you can’t compare IEMs to over ears. I think people should do so. I am looking for the headphones that give the most joy. For months, that was an IEM. Now my favorite is a lesser known closed back over ear.
None of these headphone types are inherently better than others. However, you may find yourself preferring attributes that typically fall within a type of headphone.
Those things can be functional or sonic based. The problem is, the only real way to know is try some out. It is unlikely you will buy the “perfect” headphone for you on your first time around. The one thing I regret is not trying enough variety. I still haven’t heard a focal or a ZMF.
If you can get to an audio store and report back your favorite things about common models, people here may be able to help guide you.
Otherwise, just pick something that sounds appealing to you and try it out.
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Get the Qudelix 5k over btr5. I own both. I have comparisons on here. There really isn’t much point to buying a btr5 over a qudelix.
It should power all of those well. For portability it is hard to beat. The ifi idsd micro signature would be my next choice. But that’s more transportable than portable and a lot more money. Best dac/amp I have heard.
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Awesome. Thank you! Now just gotta snag myself a set of headphones and I guess we’re on our way!
Yes. Take at look at the reviews and buy what you like. I greatly prefer the original Clear (now $1,000 on closeout) over the Elex ($700). I kept my Clear and sold my Elex. I’m personally not a fan of Audeze’s fit and feel, but every body is different.
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Funny enough, the Clear is where I am leaning! I have heard lovely things about Hifiman as well and wondering if the Arya is worth a stretch. For someone not a professional musician or engineer, I am guessing I will have no ability to really tell the differences overall.
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