It could be that the coloration of the sound by the impedance mismatch is pleasing to your ear. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s similar to applying a bass boost…
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The Denon AVR-x2700h’s manual doesn’t mention any specification for the headphone output. And the number 47 only appears 4 times … ALL of which are page numbers/parts of page numbers.
Are there?
You may like the way your Denon sounds more, but that’s just a personal preference.
AVRs are big boxes of big compromises. They can sound “impressive”. Some people genuinely like the way they sound. Even the very expensive ones tend to, objectively, perform quite poorly. And to make matters worse, with headphones … the headphone output is usually an after thought. It gets included because doing so costs a couple of cheap resistors a socket, and an extra hole in the casework.
If you like the way headphones sound from your Denon, that’s fine.
But you keep asking “us” for recommendations, and the general consensus here seems to be that those of us that have heard AVRs driving headphones have had experiences they’re not wanting to repeat/foist on others.
You don’t NEED to ask us for anything.
Buy what you want, plug it in, and deal with the end results … you may like it, you may hate it, but absolutely no one is stopping you from doing that.
But after many, many, posts it should be clear to you that you’re just not going to find people here going “Oh, yeah, those low-end Denon AVRs sounds fantastic with any headphone you pair them with!” … which seems to be what you’re trying to get to.
There are limited situations in which higher OI amplifiers paired with some, sometimes lower impedance, headphones, result in a pleasant result. As @Promee says, above, this is usually a product of elevated bass due to the impedance mismatch and lower damping ratio.
But, in general, you want as close to zero OI as possible. And more current capacity, all other things being equal (they aren’t … and price is usually the first to go), is good.
–
TL;DR;
If you insist on using your AVR to drive headphones, just do it.
Excepting your fascination with a headphone you haven’t heard (Tungsten), the iFi Micro iDSD Signature is more than enough for almost any headphone (even if iFi are playing games with the power rating), and absolutely outperforms the BEST CASE technical performance of your AVR.
You may not like it as much, but on technical grounds there’s absolutely no comparison.
If not, choose an amplifier from a competent brand (Schiit, iFi, JDS Labs, Geshelli, Topping, SMSL, etc.), doesn’t have to be expensive (as they will ALL be technically superior to anything in pretty much ANY AVR). Find a suitable DAC to pair it with (the line-output from your iFi unit is way better than anything your AVR can output). And get the headphones you want. If they don’t work for you, change something … but one thing at a time.
There are no sure things here; once you get beyond measurements it is ALL personal preference.
No one else but you knows what it is that is making you so high on the way your AVR sounds.
No one else but you knows what it is that you consider “audiophile” or “better sound quality”.
At some point you just have to jump in and start trying things.
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Genre wise, I cover pretty much everything. In my personal library (1M tracks, legal, owned) I would say that metal, in its various forms, and country are somewhat under-represented vs. most other genres, but there’s still plenty of both (in raw numbers, probably more than some confirmed fans of either genre).
I don’t know if there is a big, common, set of genres that the bulk of the forum listens to. There probably is, but I don’t know what it/they would be.
So what does that mean?
When you say “power” what are you referring to specifically? Loudness? Heavy, emphatic, baselines? Power-chords all over? Massive musical swells? Big crescendos in large orchestral works? Emotional impact? Some specific combination(s) of these? What?
What are you trying to say here?
You do or do not think those genres get listened to by members of the forum? Or you’re not including those in music you think “plays with power”? Or … what?
Full, coherent, sentences and paragraphs would help a GREAT DEAL in trying to parse what you’re saying, without which you’re not going to get much help (and I’m about to stop trying … one more vague, ellipsis filled, wall-of-text ramble and you’re on your own).
So, why don’t you?
What is this mysterious music, that “really plays with power”, that you don’t see mentioned here?
I doubt many would disagree, from a pure evaluative perspective. Not necessarily the case when listening for pleasure (I’d personally rather listen to good music that is from hobbyists and/or poorly produced, than beautifully recorded and mastered dross, but of course I would prefer, even more, good music that was well produced … though I don’t really care if its “commercial” or not).
Closest thing to that, today, is probably the Harman research and curves/targets. If you’re one of those people that find systems/transducers that closely follow the Harman curve suit your preferences, then learn what that frequency response looks like and start auditioning headphones that follow it.
If not, figure out what the signature you like IS and try other models/components that play to.
The solution to that, is to find reviewers that write their evaluations in terms of each track they listen to, individually, and that gravitate towards the subset of those that favor music/genres you enjoy.
And those genres would be?
Go at look at the threads for recommended music for headphones, Now Playing, and What Music you’re listening to this week. You’ll see what we all like. You’ll get some playlists. I’ve posted my playlist of “The Chameleons” a bunch of Pop and Jazz songs I like to test with, all with a Chameleon theme. @SenyorC has posted his test list, so have others. We have lists of Irish songs for Saint Patty’s, Drinking Songs, Railroad Songs. The Classical Music thread has great recommendations, add yours in. The TIMBRE! thread talks about certain things to listen for, and a discussion of piano with lots of Keith Jarrett. We have Electronica and EDM sections.
Look around.
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This is good advice, @Cyan69. Much of what you say you haven’t seen is in fact around on the forum. Just to add to what @pennstac already provided, there is also a “Test Tracks” thread here. Plenty there about what people are listening to and what they are listening for.
How/Why are you “stuck with” the AVR when you have a perfectly good Ifi amp?
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Would like to get y’all’s opinion. I see that the Schiit Valhalla is in the “Last Call” section. $299. I don’t have ANY OTL amp, and I do have a couple of headphones that it would probably be nice for. Heck, maybe someday I’ll even spring for a used Senn 800 series headphone.
Is it worth scarfing one of these up on general principles? Is it too entry level to be useful? I do have two hybrid amps - the Lyr3 and for my eStats a Mjolnir modifed SRM-T1S. In solid state I’ve got things reasonably well covered for now.
If one does get one, should I stick with stock tubes, or think about ONE recommended rolling set? I’d budget an extra $200 or so for that - which lead me to wonder if I’d just be better off doing nothing until I feel like blowing upwards of $500 or $1K?
I’m askin’ here, and in this way, because many of you know I’m not the headphone newbie, nor completely a tightwad, but don’t choose to play in the TOTL cost stratosphere. The closest I’ve ever come is the Rosson RAD-0.
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I grabbed mine used, just before Schiit marked them as end-of-production. Came with 2 sets of stock tubes, which I assume are Chinese, another full set of NOS Voshkod, and a pair of Phillips-JAN 6922s. Spent basically what you’re budgeting.
Couldn’t be happier with it as a daily driver with my Senn 6XX. It’s easily good enough to expose differences in DACs, regardless of tube complement. With all the tubes I have, it retains a warm character without becoming oppressive. You might be able to lean it out with the right tube complement, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Let it be what it wants to be and I think you’ll enjoy it.
For me, it’s good enough that any other tube amp I get has to do the speakers AND headphones trick. I consider it well above entry-level, despite the entry-level price. (But I am a bit of a noob with headphones compared to many here.)
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The stock tubes at that point were Soviet era NOS tubes (from Russia of course) that used to be real cheap. I had picked that one up pre-Ukraine war and all the tube nonsense that followed. 
I do kind of miss that amp…
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I think it’s pretty hard to go wrong with it at $299. It’s a pretty great amp for the price, and I really liked it for my 650 and especially ZMF Verite Open.
Do be aware that Jason has said a new Valhalla is coming this year sometime, but I haven’t read any details on it, not to mention pricing.
The stock tubes in it (assuming they are the same as when I got mine) are very good imo. If you get one try them for a while first before going down the tube rabbit hole! 
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Following my testing of a cheap OTL amp (Darkvoice 336), and living with the less cheap but still fundamentally cheap Bottlehead Crack OTL, I’d pass at this point. That’s because the forbidden qualities of high-end transformers and capacitors make the roughness and flaws of products in this price class obvious. I suspect it’d be a great intro product and solid value at $299, but fear I’d hear the flaws and never use it. My Lyr 3 hasn’t been used at all since first testing it against the Decware.
I’d be ESPECIALLY concerned for use with the HD 800, as very sensitive to and revealing of upstream flaws. I reserve the Crack for the HD 6XX and Beyer DT 880 – it matches their potential performance well. The 800 S just sounds hamstrung, and makes those setups akin to crayon art versus fine pencil drawings.
Have you considered the Woo WA2 (retail $1.5K) or Feliks Echo MkII (retail $1K)? These are certainly not TOTL but may be in your stratosphere bracket. I have no personal experience with either one, but thought long and hard about both before going with the Decware.
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Out of curiosity did you ever install the speedball in your Bottlehead Crack? If not I’d be curious if you did end up installing it what your impressions would be now that you have the Decware.
The BHC definitely has a ceiling with technicalities, but I found the speedball “sharpens the crayon” by a relatively substantial amount (a does a set of resolving tubes).
I agree if getting max performance/technicalities is your goal then jumping to a higher tier first makes more sense financially in the long run. However, if one is looking to “get a taste of the OTL sound” I feel it’s a viable path I would encourage others to follow.
Personally, I spent ~3 years tube rolling with my BHC (w/ speedball) and was very happy with the resolution with my BF2/64 and Verite Closed. Now that I have an 1101 OTL and Yggy+ GS2/A1, the crack DOES sound like crayons to pencils. I doubt my crack will get much more head time. That being said, I have no regrets with my journey and 100% of the tubes I acquired for my BHC work in my higher end OTL. I feel like I got my moneys worth of enjoyment along the way.
Sometimes part of the fun of the journey towards the summit is stopping at multiple viewpoints along the way.
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Hello, I need advice on Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds with HIGHEST POSIBLE VOLUME and stable Bluetooth connection with Windows 11. There are so many earbuds online I just can’t pick the right one for me.
The type of headphone: Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds
My price range is: Under $100 (I will be using them 4-5 hours a week)
I like to listen to: TV mostly Movies, YouTube channels not music. No High music quality needed.
I will be using them for: In my bedroom to not bother other people in my house
Additional: Do not need microphone, Do not need high quality of sound, Do not need high battery life. I only need HIGHEST POSIBLE VOLUME. I bought Earbuds in the past that gradually lost volume level? I don’t know if it is a charging problem, I use them for 2 hours and then charge until next use? I work a sound heavy job and already have partial hearing loss.
So, my thought here is that if you have partial hearing loss, combating that with high volume is not really a good idea as it is likely to make the problem worse and risk more heading loss.
I would talk to a doctor before going with high volume listening.
I would instead focus on finding very good isolation with active noise cancellation. This will give you a more quiet background, meaning you won’t need as much volume.
You may actually want to look at noise cancelling IEMs from Apple, Bose or Sony that are known to have good noise cancellation, and also explore tips that give the best passive cancelation that you can.
I’m sorry to hear about your hearing loss, my wife has partial hearing loss in one ear and it really affects how she hears music. But you need to protect what you have.
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No. I have the kit but didn’t install it because of broader doubts about the Crack’s limitations. There are issues with the included mushy/flexible headphone jack and the budget pot at minimum. For a long time I fed it through a preamp because one channel was much louder than the other at low-normal volume. The speedball would not address the pot or the rest of the Crack’s budget components. Various amp builders improve the other parts (e.g., Blue Velvet pot, huge caps, etc.)…but then why bother? It moves into the Woo and Feliks price tier as a custom amp.
EDIT: I toyed with the idea of saving the Speedball for a second Crack build while leaving the first one as a retro-style, retro-performance amp. For No. 2 I’d have used better components all around. That idea went on the back burner when I ordered the Decware.
And that’s exactly why I kept the Crack as is, enjoy it for what it can do, and ordered the Decware.
Most of us could be happy with a Crack and HD 600/650 if we didn’t dwell on gear…but the Crack and solid state amps sound like crayons against the Decware too…
I mainly use it with vocals and the DT 880 600 ohm – it’s a narrow niche but hard to top.
That’s where all of these entry-level OTLs fit in, and they don’t sound ‘bad’ per se. Still, there’s only so much content possible in that price tier. If you’d asked me 5 years ago I’d have said the same thing, and that’s actually what I did. However, given the zero fatigue sessions with my current setup, with hindsight I’d have skipped ahead to the higher tiers.
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You know. I’m probably the wrong guy to talk to about this because I’m gonna be a bit of an enabler.
At the moment I’ve got 3 desktop headphone amplifiers… solid state, all designed tube amp and a tube hybrid.
They are all very different sounding and have strengths and weaknesses to complement one another.
Because you don’t have an OTL amp I feel that alone is worth exploring. Also, Schiit being a wonderful and reputable company I definitely encourage you to try the OTL Valhalla. I think the difference alone will make you happy. I say go for it. At 299$ the Valhalla is a steal based on its build quality alone.
Keep in touch. Love to know your final decision. I’m an amp guy more than a DAC guy. I think bigger differences in sonic presentation and sound are greater from amps than most DACS. 
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Another 2c worth less than that.
I wouldn’t bother with stuff like the Darkvoice, you can mod them to be decent, but it’s not worth the effort. The BHC with speedball if you are confident enough to do the build, is a very good OTL amp at its price point. Unlike transformer coupled amps, OTL amps don’t have to be silly expensive to be OK, the primary cost is in the power supply, and the high voltage supply doesn’t really need to be all that high which helps.
I still own the BHC I built years ago, get’s little to no listening time, but with an HD650, it’s a surprisingly good listen. The more romantic tube forwards sound of lower priced OTL’s isn’t really my thing, and there are other tube amps I’d personally look at in the price bracket of a prebuilt crack.
The SW51 if you can find one (ask me nicely and I’ll sell you mine), is a very good tube amp for the price point, the Haggerman Tuba, and above that the Quicksilver Headphone amp are all transformer coupled and more inline with my preferences.
All 3 are competitive with other none tube amps at their respective price points, but obviously the higher end stuff is better. If you buy a Tuba, it really needs better EL84’s than it ships with the other two ship with OK stock tubes.
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Also, when you think about it, how much money is really at risk here? If @pennstac spends $500 on a Valhalla and tubes, decides it’s not for him or maybe just tires of it after a year or 3, selling it off would probably recover 75% or 80% of the cost. There’s only about $100 to $150 actually in play. The way things are right now, the tubes might even appreciate.
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The Valhalla looks interesting, but I wonder if it is really going to scratch the itch. It looks like - reading the Schiit site - it is designed for maximum clarity, minimum distortion, and it uses some kind of circuitry to have low output impedance. It looks like all of the capacitors are electrolytic, though I wonder if anyone has modded these (could be an interesting upgrade possibility). I wonder if they’re using a lot of feedback to reduce distortion. It might sound just like a solid state amp, just using tubes. It doesn’t sound like the same experience as a typical OTL SET amp.
Also, I just grabbed a WA2, and wow, it is the real deal, even with its stock tubes, it’s amazing. It does not play well with low impedance headphones, and the price is definitely at a higher level, though used maybe you could get it a little closer to the Valhalla. I will say I think I actually like it a good bit more than the WA22, but maybe just because it’s the new toy, we’ll see when the dust settles…
I am also selling a HD 800 S, btw, so let me know if you’re thinking of taking the plunge 
If you follow Jason’s thread on head fi, he isn’t a great believer in using lots of feedback.
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That is interesting to know. I feel like I had actually heard that in an interview now that you mention it. I with I had a better understanding of the electrical engineering, because that amp just doesn’t seem to add up with my extremely limited technical knowledge. It looks on paper like it can do everything, but it is super cheap for a full tube design at that price. I guess that is a clearance price, but still… It just looks a little like magic, which always makes me skeptical. That said, the brand has a ton of devotees, and that doesn’t happen by accident. It might be a fun amp, but I just wonder if it will disappoint someone who is expecting something more like a Bottlehead or something like that to synergize pretty specifically with high impedance dynamic headphones. I definitely don’t have any personal experience with it, so maybe I have said too much, I just wanted to jump in because the WA2 was mentioned and I got it just this weekend. I’ve been having the revelatory experience of a SET OTL amp for the first time, and coming from the WA22, it’s just hard to believe how extremely different they can be, so if @pennstac is going for this sound, it’s possible to miss the mark pretty hard, even with a good tube amp. I’m definitely out of my depth on the actual electrical knowledge, that’s for sure.
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