That’s 3 pin.
Exactly what I want, but in 4 pin balanced HP type.
3 pin… Oh yeah, huh. Duh.
You can make one. Or find a cable that uses this Neutrik connector and adjust as needed.
I can’t solder…
Hmm.
You might know someone who does.
looks around
Oh, hi.
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You’re also 16,000km away 
Sorry. 10,000 miles.
Oh sorry. 176,000 football fields.
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But if you would like to make and ship me one, I would be ok with that. PM me 
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American football, or European Football?
I keep forgetting you’re across the pond. … And over a few hills. … And across another pond. Etc.
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I think its quite big, think they call it a river or something.
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Hello all.
First time poster, long-time lurker on the forum.
As it says in the topic, I am looking to upgrade my setup with my first good / pretty good DAC and Amp. I am currently using a FiiO Q1 for a DAC and a Nobsound NS-08E tube amp. I am using either my PC running Musicbee (WASAPI exclusive out) or my LG V35 as my source. Files are almost 100% flac, about 5% or so are higher definition (either 96 or 192K). No requirement for DSD, 5.1 or MQA source data at this time but obviously that could change.
I am using primarily a pair of HD 6XX headphones that i purchased used here. I also have a set of Johnson and Mitchell JP1s and Audio Technica ATH M40s.
I would like to purchase separate components and spend in the $500 to $700 range.
I was initially looking at the Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC but the price is a bit out of what I want to spend. What I liked about the Bifrost 2 was the multibit implementation was well reviewed and I really like the USB implementation for noise reduction / signal quality. I have also looked at used Bifrost 1s with the multibit and USB Gen 5 upgrades.
Schiit also has used B stock on the Bifrost 1 with the multibit and USB options (both previous generations) for $399. The downside, besides the mb and usb not being most current is the the Bifrost 1 does not support balanced output. I’ve never heard a balanced setup so I can’t really judge whether I need it.
I have also been looking at two DACs from SMSL. I first saw the SU-8. Very good reviews and I liked the price. Then I saw the M200. Newer technology and very high definition Bluetooth implementation (which I don’t use now but might be handy for some patio listening with a new set of headphones). The only thing concerning me about the M200 is that the SU-9 is supposed to come out anytime. Apparently it was supposed to launch in February but Covid 19 slowed it down.
While I was thinking about a tube amplifier, I figured for my first decent amp I would go with solid state and look to add a tube preamp or buffer at a later date.
If I end up going with the Bifrost B stock then I will seriously consider the Schiit Asgard 3.
I am also looking at THX technology. Drop has their AAA 789 for a good price but it doesn’t look like it will ship until October. Monoprice has one at a similar price point that will ship immediately.
I have also been looking at the SMSL SP200. THX implementation and it has good reviews and is priced about $100 less than the Drop and Monoprice options.
Well, that’s where I am right now. I welcome any and all suggestions / advice except for saying I have to double my budget
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Balanced is just a way to get the signal from point A to point B, only though very long distances compared to RCA. Thats it. Don’t fall down the rabbit hole.
(With headphone cables, it’s a little different. TRS plugs short as you insert/remove them. XLR doesn’t. For that alone, I prefer XLR.)
For the HD650/XX, you may want to look at a Valhalla + Modius stack. (I haven’t heard the Modius, but I’ll go out on a limb and suggest it anyway.) Valhalla has an excellent history of synergizing very well with the 650. Tubes are cheap too at about $15 each. Well… You could go crazy on a pair of 6N23P-EV Russian Reflectors if you wanted to.
The Asgard 3 is another great value. I really like mine. It currently drives my Meze Empyreans and Emu Teak. Which is kind of silly from a cost standpoint, as the audio chain is: Yggdrasil A2 > Asgard 3 > Empy. Hey, if it’s good, it’s good.
Bifrost 2 is excellent, but as you said, beyond the budget.
Bifrost 1 is hard to recommend. Might as well save some $ and get a Modi Multibit, they sound alike.
The THX amps are flavor of the month kinds of amps IMO. Board the hype train. Choo choo. … Or don’t. There are more people I know that sold theirs than kept it, so that says something.
If you can find a prebuilt Bottlehead Crack (assuming you don’t want to build one yourself), I would recommend it. It’s criminally underrated.
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Hey Tom, what kind of music do you listen to? Are you able to share any impressions of what equipment sounds good to you or how you would compare one piece of gear’s sound versus another? What also might be helpful is if there’s anything in your current gear that you want to enhance versus reduce?
ProfFalkin
Thanks for the input. Not doing any long cable runs so I guess balanced would not be a requirement for me. I know what you are saying though about RCA connections going flakey. Will look for an Amp with XLR out. There are reasonably priced cables for the HD 6XXs.
I did look at the Valhalla and am still considering it. I appreciate the input on the THX amps.
Pbcarb
The music I listen to is varied but for the most part is pretty old. Lots of Dead, Allman Bros., Zappa. Classic rock, acoustic, folk, some country, lots of Motown. Very little classical.
I’m still trying to figure out what sounds good to me. One thing I do know is I am not in to really enhanced bass.
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In this price range, I’d choose between the Schiit and JDS Labs Element line. You can consider the THX amps (with accompanying Drop/Monoprice/SMSL DAC) if you’re seeking more of a reference/analytical sound (be wary of the hype train mentioned earlier).
I’m going to speak in broad strokes and there will likely be certain exceptions/nuances.
For DACs, I personally prefer the added richness and texture of R2R/multibit/FPGA over delta sigma (where the latter’s strengths are sometimes considered to be better measurements/transparency/accuracy).
For amps, I also prefer some color that makes for an enjoyable listen over reference/analytical.
For non delta sigma DACs in this price range, there’s the Modi Multibit (which I have) and the Chord Mojo (which allows for portability as it’s a battery powered DAC/amp). For delta sigma, there’s the Modius along with the JDS Labs EL DAC 2.
At this price point, I don’t believe balanced is as important/impactful. I’ve tried the iFi Zen and THX 789 balanced, and I preferred the Schiit Heresy and Asgard 3 single ended, respectively.
I would offer that the SMSL and Topping have good measurements, features, bells and whistles, but they may not have the best sound quality depending on a person’s preference. I preferred the Modius over Topping E30 in A/B comparisons.
I also preferred the Modi MB over Modius for most types of music, similar to your music genres listed (that amounted to multibit single ended being preferred over balanced with Unison USB). The Modius would be my selection for delta sigma in this price range.
I also preferred the Asgard 3 over the THX 789 (single ended inferior measurements prevailed over balanced superior measurements/specs).
Everyone is different and if you polled 10 people, there likely wouldn’t be unanimity.
Box of Rain is my favorite Dead song for sentimental reasons.
Since your music has lots of strings and vocals, I’ll stick with the Modi MB recommendation. Had you mentioned music such as metal or electronic that typically favors punch and slam, I might have suggested the Modius.
I also have an HD650, which I’ve found to scale well with gear and benefit from the additional power and headroom that open things up. Along with the general additional color of Schiit over JDS Labs, I favor Schiit.
Possible Schiit SS configurations in your price range:
Modi MB
Jotunheim
Modi MB
Asgard 3 (with the extra funds you can add a Loki EQ)
However, as @ProfFalkin mentioned, the HD650/XX is supposed to do well with tubes. I’m in the process of moving on from a cheap headphone tube preamp to a proper tube amp. My tube preamp sounded good with the Modius and THX 789 for certain types of music, but detracts from the goodness of the Modi MB and Asgard 3.
Good luck.
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I’m in the transducers first camp, and with the extra funds you can consider getting a used/new Sundara/Deva Wired to complement the HD6XX (requires confidence in Hifiman build quality and durability; I’m not there yet). I haven’t listened to the Deva Wired yet.
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I’m with @ProfFalkin on this one. I wouldn’t personally bother with balanced too much until you find your feet so to speak. You sometimes pay a lot more for a fully balanced setup and if working to a fixed budget like most of us are you may be able to get more for your buck. Just my thoughts. Hope all goes well. And please let us all know how you get on.
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I fell down the balanced rabbit hole and found one genuine carrot: Balanced cables between the headphones and amp do indeed mitigate the noise and distortion of dynamic drivers. I love them with the Sennheiser 600 series in particular.
In my testing, balanced cables didn’t do much of anything for IEMs or non-dynamic driver headphones. They likely don’t have any meaningful impact between the DAC and amp either (I’d need more test samples).
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I really appreciate the detailed responses. So much to think about.
Brandon,
You really seem to like the Modi MB. I was wondering whether it would be worth it to look at the original Bifrost with MB and the enhanced Gen 5 USB. The reviews are pretty good for the later MB releases and Schiit has a few B stock on those for $399 but I imagine when those are gone that will be it as the Bifrost 2 is out. I really like the idea of a “cleaner” USB connection. The only issue with those is that all they have is black
Also now debating tube or SS, Valhalla 2 vs. Asgard 3. The V2 has great reviews with the HD 6XXs.
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The BottleHead Crack is a VERY easy to build kit with step by step instructions that a caveman could follow if he had a soldering iron. Do not be afraid of this kit as an entry into kit building! I totally agree that it is very underrated, especially with the Senns family. It’s very difficult (and much more expensive) to better this match up in terms of sound quality.
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Agreed.
The instructions they provide make it really really hard to mess up. It’s not hard.
It just takes a high level of paying attention while following those directions. Cold joints are the biggest thing to watch out for.
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As a heavy iem user with various daps which include the Pioneer XDP-300r and Cayiin 6ii (with interchangeable amp/dac modules) I find it very often depends on the iem you use as to whether or not you get any (perceived) difference. My Shure se846 doesn’t ever benefit from a balanced setup IMHO. I did find a pleasing difference with my Andromeda’s though. Of course this can be purely expectation bias or Placebo.
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