Monolith THX AAA 887 Headphone Amplifier - Official Thread

[ProfFalkin]

@Soundphile

if anyone has any counterarguments, I would really like to read them!

Ok! Here goes…

(Feel free to mentally add IMO, YMMV, and the like as you read this.)

@Soundphile

I can see why you could prefer the Phonitor, but I don’t think all that power is necessary, nor I think it really makes a massive difference in terms of how it sounds.

But you don’t know for sure, right? Because you haven’t evaluated the Phonitor like you have the THX amps?

@Soundphile

the measurements of the THX AAA amps are among the best in the industry and go well beyond what human ears can hear, so I (personally, again) do not see the point in going beyond that.

@Soundphile

theoretically the THX AAA amps are as close to “wire with gain” as it gets.

Wire with gain is a myth. It’s a description of the ideal. Of perfection. Impossible. It also completely ignores the possibility that personal preference exists. It’s a horribly flawed concept, and NOT something one should chase after. Ok, so…

I’ve had the 789 amp in my chain. I’ve owned the phonitor x. Darth has had both. Cariad as well. If one person says a thing, you can chalk it up as opinion. When multiple people agree on a thing, from direct experience, there’s probably something to it. It doesn’t mean it may apply to your personal preferences, BUT… It seems to me that unless you also have had direct experience with both, then dismissing out of hand their shared experience is just fanboy-ism at best, or worse, willful ignorance. Don’t do that bro. It’s something I see quite a bit from the measurement fascist side of the hobby.

I know what I just said could be offensive, but I mean it in the nicest possible way. It seems you’ve closed yourself off to other possibilities, and you shouldn’t. Please try to be open to the possibility the Phonitor line sounds (much, much) better than the THX amps. Also, be assured that neither are my cup of tea. I like coffee. Ok, anyway…

Measurements. I think if you let measurements dictate to you what sounds good and what doesn’t, you’re going to miss out on a lot of amazing sound.

Measurements do not invalidate a person or group’s experience with how something sounds.

[Cariad]

@lost33

Using this amp with trebly headphones can be a not so nice experience with music that accentuates the high end, the brass stuff, cymbols etc…

The amp just exposes other less than stellar stuff in the chain…IMO.

I get where you’re coming from but I don’t think the ZMF Verite O are considered as “trebly” and I never listen to poorly recorded music (tonal balance way out of whack, highly compressed and “loud”) with headphones because headphones are an in your face experience.

[Soundphile]

@ProfFalkin

But you don’t know for sure, right? Because you haven’t evaluated the Phonitor like you have the THX amps?

I, in fact, have tried both the THX AAA 789 and the Phonitor X in the same way. I have first-hand experience with both.

@ProfFalkin

If one person says a thing, you can chalk it up as opinion. When multiple people agree on a thing, from direct experience, there’s probably something to it. It doesn’t mean it may apply to your personal preferences, BUT… It seems to me that unless you also have had direct experience with both, then dismissing out of hand their shared experience is just fanboy-ism at best, or worse, willful ignorance. Don’t do that bro.

I wrote a super-lengthy reply to your message, then I went on to reply to Cariad and re-read my original message: I now realise how my tone would sound dismissive and I am deeply sorry about that. I never meant to dismiss anyone’s experience, I was just stating my opinion without implying that the personal preference of others is wrong.

I didn’t want to create a heated discussion here - actually that’s absolutely the farthest from my intention!
I was just stating my personal, and therefore flawed, opinion on the comparison between two products without implying anything else.

@ProfFalkin

It seems you’ve closed yourself off to other possibilities, and you shouldn’t. Please try to be open to the possibility the Phonitor line sounds (much, much) better than the THX amps.

If I may word my original statements better: to me it makes little sense to go over the THX AAA tech in amplification because I can - subjectively - hear no difference between the various solid-state amplifiers. So my choice of the THX was because of the measurements - I can’t hear any difference, but if it measures better then I guess that it can sound good even in corner cases (but that’s a guess!).
Can the Phonitor sound better? In my opinion it is exactly the same, but you can disagree on that and it’s fine! There’s an Italian saying (I’m not an English native speaker: I’m Italian!): “Franza o Spagna, purché se magna” - “[we can plead allegiance to either] France or Spain, as long as we eat”. Phonitor or THX, whatever makes you feel good is fine!

Once again, I am sorry if I sounded like I was dismissing other people’s experience. I was not. I definitely did not want to pollute this thread with all this stuff. Everyone, please accept my apologies if I sounded (well, read) anything but peacefully stating my opinions and looking for a lovely discussion. Peace, love, and listen to whatever makes you happy with anything you like!

Let’s go back to the topic:

@Cariad

why bother buying any of the THX amps, except for their feature set, and instead save a wad of cash by buying a $100 JDS Labs Atom?

Actually… I bought one because I had a massive discount and I ended up paying it like an Atom But to answer to your other point:

@Cariad

It seems to me that your logic here is based on the ASR presumption (unproven opinion) that all audio equipment under all circumstances measuring -120dB SINAD is guaranteed transparent and as such sounds the same.

I actually think that measurements are just a part of the equation. Truth be told, you may say I am a subjectivist if you read my reviews as I never measure anything and I only provide my subjective impression. Honestly, in terms of sound I can hear little to no difference between my THX amp, a Topping A30 and a Venture Electronics RunAbout 2.0b Lite (random amps I have in front of me right now).
So why the THX? Because it has lots of power, it looks great and it is compatible even with IEMs! It’s really rather flexible, which is why I really like it. Plus it has good measurements, which is an added bonus.

[ProfFalkin]

@Soundphile

I, in fact, have tried both the THX AAA 789 and the Phonitor X in the same way. I have first-hand experience with both

If so, it appears I made an assumption in err. My apologies.

@Soundphile

to me it makes little sense to go over the THX AAA tech in amplification because I can - subjectively - hear no difference between the various solid-state amplifiers.

Ok, that makes a big difference to me, and one I can relate to. I hear very little -important- differences in head stage between most headphones. Sure, there may be a 5% wider stage on one vs another, but it’s trivial compared to the staging differences I hear between speaker setups where the change is dramatic and meaningful. Thus is born my opinion that stage in headphones is greatly over nit-picked by the community.

@Soundphile

as long as we eat

I like food! Food is good. Yup

@Soundphile

Once again, I am sorry if I sounded like I was dismissing other people’s experience.

Yeah, I won’t lie - that’s how it came across to me. It seems unavoidable that readers will inject their own expectations or bias to another person’s text in forum conversations. Speaking face to face conveys so much more information and meaning. One must be careful of this. I’m guilty of it.

It’s good we can have this discourse though, to explore it, and to find common ground. Is also ok to disagree. Opinions can be correct yet differ from person to person. That’s why opinions aren’t facts.

[MartinTransporter]

another point is the rest of the used chain…

I can directly hear the difference between 2 mediocre DACs(SMSL SU-8 and ifi xDSD)with the THX AAA 789 and my ok, though not high tier headphones
Using FLAC files, Tidal Masters and Qobuz studio

coming back to the sRGB vs Adobe RGB usage
it’s not enough to use another color spectrum in software. You need a monitor with at least 100% sRGB and full Adobe RGB, to see the difference
You need a hardware/Software calibration, the correct/stable lighting in your room the monitor is in and you need profiles for your printer and the correct paper to print on
You better use a Colorchecker card before shooting in camera and your flashes need gels to mix with ambient light …
Then you hang the pictures in a gallery with bad light or grey instead of white walls as background and the viewer won’t match/see or won’t feel what you wanted to achieve

if there are one or two factors in 2 chains not matching or preferences are slightly different…
no one could tell if the reasonable point fatigue after few hours was even possible if you listen to warm cosy tracks with 75db volume on chilled headphones, out of Burr Brown or AKM DAC and I won’t mention USB or RCA cables, nor copper or silver cables with your headphones

I did not listen to the Phonitor SPL XE yet
I did listen to a Qestyle CMA 400i (for example) and even this one was more lively though less fatiguing with my Elegia/DT1990/660s over hours and had a deeper / wider stage. Maybe a tad less resolution and not as much headroom- for only 800 bucks incl DAC

I like the THX AAA 789 and after all the Hypes… as it arrived after months I tried not to be biased

I’m sure it’s very good for these times… in this very subjective hobby
And- “A bigger fish is always in the ocean” so I keep my eyes open

[generic]

I step aside when people get into the objective/subjective debate, as I don’t believe my own audio perceptions. Do not trust anything you hear unless it’s based on a controlled double blind test. Anything else is a fuzzy blending of the sound, the aesthetics, the experience, the luxury, the value, the style, and one’s mood. So, enjoy…

Regarding the THX amps, I have the 789 and am quite happy with it. I’ve messed with a wide range of amps and headphones, and often feel fatigue upon using a new setup. Part of this is training/adjustment and part of this is…simple universal listening fatigue…again double blind testing or it’s best to let it go…

[lost33]

Hey I have a spectrometer, color profiles for my printers with various papers, glossy, high glossy, premuim high glossy, Matte, canvas etc…Totally color calibrated from the adobe rgb to flash temps and custom print profiles…and I still cant find the jack in my printer to plug in my headphones??

• little levity!!

Guess the future tech in photography will having an integrated headphone amp in my printer setup!! Ha!

Ok back to the music!
Alex

[Cariad]

@generic

Do not trust anything you hear unless it’s based on a controlled double blind test.

I am not going to argue against the value in double blind testing (with experienced and trained listeners) just against the idea that if not then, “best to let go”, especially when listening to and enjoying music is the objective, considering that every person involved in the production of that music made decisions that were sighted, not blind. There are lots of bad and good recordings. Are the good recordings the result of the recording engineer doing a double blind test before deciding what microphone to use on a kick drum?

The way we perceive, interpret and create is incredibly complex and I don’t want to live in a world solely determined by mathematicians and measurement geeks, even though the ubiquity of strip malls and boxy buildings indicates that we already do.

[TylersEclectic]

@Soundphile @Cariad @ProfFalkin @lost33

This…this, is what this forum is all about! Discussion and understanding…typed words are very hard to convey…talking in person is much easier to get understanding from people, as visuals are a massive part of human interaction.

I also apologies if I came across as anything but trying to be understanding. I put the * statement in there in hopes to bring more civility and alignment to what has naturally occurred here lol.

Great discussion, and now we all know a lil bit more about one another moving forward =) I’ll have to check out your reviews SoundPhile =)

[lost33]

Ok back to the Monolith THX AAA 877 Headphone Amp then…

Has anyone seen an actual schematic diagram of this amp or a block diagram?

Alex

[prfallon69]

I do find it a very impersonal way of communication (via typed words) as others have said you miss all the visual and audible cues that face to face communication brings. I am always rereading what type as I try not to offend anyone. I am just a non confrontational kind of guy. I am enjoying the discussion though.

[Cariad]

@Soundphile

So why the THX? Because it has lots of power, it looks great and it is compatible even with IEMs! It’s really rather flexible, which is why I really like it. Plus it has good measurements, which is an added bonus.

That’s great but just to be clear, I did not interpret any responses as challenging why you like the THX or that you do, and nor was I. It was your proclamation that thtere is nothing better to be had that got people’s backs up. But you have qualified your original statements in a manner that is polite and well expressed. And that is appreciated.

[ProfFalkin]

@lost33

Has anyone seen an actual schematic diagram of this amp or a block diagram?

Does this help?

Kidding! Hehe

[TylersEclectic]

I am actually laughing out loud…

[lost33]

Hey I just opened up my THX AAA and thats exactly whats inside !!!

How on earth did you know…!! Must be on the designe team at THX…

lol…

[Cariad]

Word on the street is that the THX designers used to be farmers

[ValentineLuke]

That’s funny!

[pennstac]

My god, the last couple of posts, you and @Soundphile are going to go to the burning man festival together and be peyote blood brothers forever.

[ProfFalkin]

Chances are slim, but ok.

That’s a festival I don’t ever plan on attending.

[lost33]

Ok so some of us are indeed very interested in the THX amps circuitry just as some are interested in Abobe RGB vs sRGB etc…so once again has anyone “really” have a schematic for these amps?

I know what this amp “sounds” like or doesnt "sound like as most of you guys do that have them or had them. From all the above discussion its obvious we all have our experiences and opinions.

This will never change and thats good IMO.

But I really am interested in the design electrically in gear especially amps, because they are to me, easier to understand once I see a schematic etc…having built “hundreds” of amps for a living years back as a electronics tech…its always neat to see how the designers do their thing…and for me helps explain why it works good or bad…

THX explains some of this in a youtube video, but its at a high level, the part about how they get rid of or mask the distortion by measuring the distortion, inverting it and sticking it back in to nullify it…voila really low distortion numbers via the Class AB crossover distortion being effectively cancelled out.

Hope this does put some of you guys to sleep!

Alex