It might be interesting to compare the Spotify version with an uncompressed version of the same song.
The compressed file removes information that the dac cannot restore.
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Good write up. Bifrost 2 gives you 18 bits of resolution, Yggdrasil gives you 20, so your tv metaphor seems apt.
Personally I’m beyond thrilled with my Bifrost, so I’m just going to have to be very careful NOT to hear an Yggdrasil. 
lol
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The TV analogy is perfect. I like that a lot.
Your review states very well my opinion of the differences between BF2 and Yggy.
Good stuff
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Fast changes are helpful for me in that I cans pick up an immediate impression of differences, my ears will generally pick up on something; however, longer listening does help elucidate more of the details. I do both.
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In regards to my Mjolnir 2 pop on start up, Schiit says it’s normal for a slight pop. I removed the 9 pin extension and put the stock tubes in, i heard the amp pop (not really a pop but it’s like something power related was switching on) but didn’t hear it heavy through my headphones. I’m going to put the headphones on tomorrow when i power it on and see if it’s gone. If so, it’s the riser or one of the two new tubes sets.
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@CinciJeff , were you using the SE outputs of your Yggy for this comparison?
I’m only asking because I may be looking at DAC upgrades now (and probably would have tried to swoop in ahead of you for this one, had I known I was going to be looking) and I’ve read statements on other forums that the SE outputs of the Yggy aren’t as good as the balanced. I’m currently using both SE and balanced outputs in my BF2, and haven’t noticed a big difference between the 2, although to be honest, I haven’t A-B’d them.
I’m wondering if people are just repeating things they’ve read about the Yggy without actually owning the DAC themselves, or perhaps making a big deal out of nothing, e.g. if both the SE and balanced outputs sound wonderful, it doesn’t matter to me if one sounds a little better than the other.
This is a general question to @ProfFalkin and other Yggy owners too. I’d appreciate your insight.
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Don’t own the Yggy (yet…) but I’ve heard the SE/BAL difference is smaller on the Analog2 board than it was on the original. So I don’t think you’d have any issues using SE.
Bifrost2 creates a balanced signal in the output stage. Meanwhile Yggy is inherently balanced (4 DACs). So it makes sense you can’t tell any difference on Bifrost2.
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I’ve DIRECTLY compared Yggy A2 SE vs balanced. I detect nearly no difference between SE and Bal.
Once I got my Freya S, I connected balanced and single ended to it, and was able to switch back and forth with extreme speed, and again could detect no difference.
Now, if you have been reading about the output difference before the A2 upgrade, yes, that was audible as experienced by myself and at least a few friends who I know personally.
You have to know what period of time those comments were made. Pre A2 or post A2.
It does not surprise me at all that people might still be regurgitating crap that they’ve read about the original analog section and applying that to the A2, having zero personal experience of their own.
It also wouldn’t surprise me that people are having expectation bias influence their comparisons either - They read there should be a difference, so they hear a difference.
The last thing that wouldn’t surprise me is that somebody connects an amp to Yggy that isn’t a fully balanced input and amplification topology and/or the amp itself sounds different depending on input method.
Ymmv, I guess.
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Thanks, that puts my mind at ease.
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I was, but since the Stratus only has SE inputs that was my only option. @ProfFalkin clearly has the scoop on this - the Pre/Post A2 difference is news to me!
I guess I’ll take this opportunity to update my observations on the DAC comparison.
I signed up for a trial of Quboz a couple of weeks ago so I went and found a few lossless tracks to A/B with just in case the lossy Spotify track was affecting my findings. The first song - Diana Krall’s “Superstar” from her Wallflower album (24-bit, 48kHz) was also available on Spotify so I A/B’d the two sources and try as I might I couldn’t pick out a significant difference. This isn’t surprising as I’ve done some of the online tests before and I was only ever about 60% correct in identifying Hi-Res streams. No statistical significance. I’m looking on the bright side - if I was able to hear a clear difference, I’d probably be spending another fortune in equipment to match that high bar!
So back to the DAC A/B. For all of these I had two USB cables running from my computer - one to each DAC. I used the Quboz player which allowed me to select the DAC from a menu, so my process was left hand on the mouse button hovering over the DAC selection and right hand on the input select switch on the back of the amp. I’d listen to a passage, switch DACs and repeat 3-6 times to make sure any observation was repeatable.
Here are my notes on “Superstar” describing the Yggy vs. the BF2:
- 0:16 - 0:26 - As the strings build and layer, the soundstage was noticibly more “enveloping” than the BF2. To use a bourbon analogy (sorry teetotalers), it was like that “warm blanket” feeling of a George T. Stagg washing over your tongue compared to a Stagg Jr. Both feel wonderful, but the GTS has an oaky smoothness that’s nearly unmatched.
- 2:33 - The brushes stood out to me in this passage so I really homed in on visualizing what the drummer’s hands were doing. With the Yggy the sound was more visceral and lively - the high-frequency “crackle” of those brushes was more palpable and “real” over the BF2.
- In general, with the Yggy the vocals seemed to have a tiny bit more reverb than I heard in the BF2. This is an observation I had before with the Spotify track, so maybe there’s somehting to it. It makes me wonder if those extra 2 bits somehow reveal more of the studio’s acoustic qualities. Whatever it is, I like it!
I went back to the main screen and with a filter for 44k+ music, saw some new release options. I chose the new album by Kings of Leon (apparently it’s been 5 years since their last album!) that was streaming at 96kHz - “When you see yourself…”
- I started with Track 1 which was the title track. I picked two or three passages to A/B but as much as I tried I couldn’t pick out any significant differences between the two DACs. That said, the track was very sonically “busy” with layers of high-frequency sounds. I think this makes it much harder to find anything since there aren’t obvious voices or instruments for your mind to track. At least that’s what I’m telling myself - I suspect the gurus out there could pick out many more details than I could.
- I went on to Track 2 - “The Bandit”. Right away at 0:08 I found a clear distinction between the two DACs. The Yggy rendered a more “3D” sound field to my ears. The guitars seemed to “blossom” with a texture that wasn’t present with the BF2. It was actually quite similar to what I heard on Wallflower where along with the 3D presentation I felt I could hear more of the qualties of the recording studio being reproduced. By comparison, the BF2 sounded a bit more “deadened” (and I do mean a “bit” more)
So I’m ready to draw some conclusions and move onto the amp comparisons. Here we go:
- The Yggy sounds better than the BF2 and it should for 3-4X the price. I think it delivers a more holographic presentation of the recordings and is clearly more revealing with its higher resolution.
- To me, it’s not entirely clear whether the Yggy is worth 3-4X the price of the BF2. Unfortunately I’ve tasted the forbidden fruit and damnit I’m probably going to keep it.
Now the question is whether I keep the BF2 or not. The size difference is significant, not to mention that my electric meter doubles its rotational velocity when I turn it on (I guess it’s the price you pay for Class A stuff!
) The BF2 fits nicely on my desktop and would also pair well with an amp that’s somewhat less… demanding. - My ears aren’t as bad as I thought they might be. I certainly don’t have an audiophile’s ear but I was worried I wasn’t going to be able to find any differences between the two. I feel a bit validated that I could, and that I could put those into words. Now of course I could be totally wrong about everything I said, but hey, let me have my moment.
This was an interesting exercise for me since it stretched out some brain cells that I don’t normally use. I hope the amplifier comparison is as easy (or easier) than this one was because the stakes are a lot higher.
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Glad you’ve been enjoying the ygg! I would say at MSRP prices, the Ygg might be hard to stomach compared to the bifrost but the used prices on a Ygg make it an affordable top DAC even though people view BF2 as a really great value. I think the differences you’re hearing has been confirmed by a good number of people and the Ygg is definitely a step up over the bifrost. It’s interesting when I see some people say that there’s no difference or that the difference is just confirmation bias. I believe this Ygg started as an A2 so no need to worry too much about the BAL vs SE. 
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Fantastic job @CinciJeff on your writeup. Very detailed and easy to follow. Especially as a Schiit virgin myself.
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I can accept that some people will not notice a difference between the two - I mean who am I to say what someone else hears? But the same argument applies to those claiming confirmation bias. How can you really know?
I came into this comparison with the assumption that I would be biased, and that - I believe - set a higher bar than if I was just trying to justify the cost of the gear. I was able to discern differences in most cases but not all, and the fact that I found similar differences using different reference tracks helped to validate my observations.
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Thank you sir!
I would have done this comparison regardless of the intention to share the results, but I’m gratified to know that community members find value in it.
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Double thanks to @CinciJeff and @ProfFalkin for all that valuable information.
I’m hoping that Schiit magically comes up with a B-stock Yggy for me. The other DAC on my short list is the Holo Spring. But I’m not in any rush - I love my BF2.
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Sorry, I feel like I’m being lazy here and I wish I could just try all these components out for myself. But I live in Pacific Asia so I’m at like - $150 shipping to try a peice of equipment.
BUT can anyone comment on Schiit Amps of Valhalla 2 vs Jotunheim 2 vs Mjolnir 2 for the ZMF Aeolus? Considering I probably won’t tube roll and will most likely be fine with stock tubes. Thanks so much!
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MJ2 > Lyr3 > Jot > Valhalla
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Hi Bob, no pressure to try any gear. I can only try to understand the frustration you must feel in being more remote than most. I read about all the wonderful (expensive TOTL) gear that some members get to hear on what seems like a daily basis. My eyes are green with envy. I don’t have deep enough pockets to be able to afford all this wonderful gear. Though I certainly don’t begrudge anyone that does. They obviously work incredibly hard for their money and deserve to do whatever they want with it.
I am thankful to be part of this great community which has members who give their free time to inform us all about what gear is out there and what it’s like to own it. Great to have you as part of the community aswell. Happy listening.
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MJ2 and Aeolus is a good match. I sold my MJ2, but it worked well when I had it.
Stock 6BZ7 tubes serve the MJ2 well. You can also use 6DJ8 (6922, 7308) family tubes.
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I went from the jot2 to mj2 recently and I’m pretty new. The jot2 takes up less space than the mj2 and of course the mj2 is an upgrade. To me, stock tubes sound close to the tubes I’ve tried so far, maybe I don’t have the ears for the difference yet. Just got the Aeolus last night, compared to the audeze lcd-x, I really like the Aeolus on the mj2 better than the lcd-x. Close to equal bass, not as bright as the lcd-x, warm sound. Unless you really like bright sound, this is a good combo. Personally, I don’t think you’ll go wrong with either amp but if you can afford the mj2, then I guess you won’t have to have the jot2 and wonder what the other was like.
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