That’s absurd, I think you know that, and it is not the point he was trying to make.
If you want to return the Jot and keep saving for a ‘better’ package, that’s cool. Just keep in mind what advice was given here, and that the chain as a whole and it’s synergies are important.
I have not disputed that. But, at the end of the day, there was no baby steps way to get there with acceptable effort and risk to me. So, as much as what I said was snarky, it was also true from a synergy perspective. The point of synergy is you must hear the end result together. Either that is a thing or it isn’t. I wouldn’t know, I haven’t heard significant synergy in my journey yet.
What I am objecting to is upgrading one piece, hearing no difference, and blindly moving to the next piece in the chain. Since I am unwilling to keep the piece that offered no sonic benefit, nor spend the money to explore that synergy now, this path no longer makes sense for me.
Given that, I have decided to try the burson playmate 2. My hope is that this single unit will give me a nice upgrade for either my office or my library with my current headphones. If not, I will come back with a bigger budget later.
It likely depends on the headphones and the person but i has the Asgard3 + Bifrost2 combo for a while and really enjoyed it (still have the Bifrost2). As in it wasn’t too warm for me.
To me the Schiit products that only come in black (Magni Hersey and Magnius) are kind of like black sheep. There to cater to the measurement focused crowd but I honestly think the formula of “throw in some op amps and use tons of feedback” takes something away from the sound. Not saying all feedback is bad but it definitely seems products that use better components and thus need less have their advantages. (Note: Fulla4 and Hel2 only come in black but I still think they are pretty cool products for office or gaming use)
Asgard3, Jotenhiem2 and Lyr3 I think are great products, and would probably push anyone to go Asgard3 over a Magni if they can swing it (internal power supply, bigger/better volume pot, better sound in general).
As for the cards I agree with what some people have said that almost wish they weren’t offered as they’re really a bottleneck. I hope Schiit eventually is able to update them and offer better performance as I see the appeal for an office or small work space where you don’t want a ton of cables or desk clutter.
It would be very interesting if they start to offer ESS chips on the add-on cards in the future, since AKM burned down and all. I don’t think the multibit card sounds bad, but the AKM one is meh.
Thanks for that. I had a Jot2 with multibit card and was surprised at how listenable it was given the reputation of the add-in dac cards. It was fine. It also gave the opportunity to upgrade in stages, which is very valuable for some.
I have the Jot 2 on hand right now and I agree with you @mfadio while feeding it a better performing Dac does bring out more detail and better staging, there is also something so enjoyable about the built in mulitibit that allows for a less critical listen. There is a solid synergy between the two imo.
Playmate 2 is here! I am running two comparisons because the right comparison is exceedingly difficult to do.
Just moving hart audio cables back and forth between playmate 2 and jot 2 on their own amps using multiple usb output.
Hooking up burson as pre-amp to the jot and using the jot switch to flip between 4490 and burson. In both cases I will try and volume match such that I don’t have to move a volume knob at all (may not be doable with this one).
On very first listen there seems to be way more going on on the burson. Like when ani plays it feels like I am in a room with space and reverb. But, I will test more and with lots more music.
Exciting times!
@Torq On the saga+ strategy… would you say that adds similar tubeyness as the lyr?
Does saga+ + jot 2 = lyr 3? Different? Any comments/thoughts? Does saga + + lyr 3 get even more tubey?
Characteristically similar, but not to the same degree.
Not really.
They have different overall traits and strengths/weaknesses.
Yes.
But still not to the degree that a dedicated pure tube amp typically does.
Well. I’m a sucker. Bifrost is on the way. sigh
Great choice! I don’t think you’ll be disappointed
I seem to have missed a LOT of back and forth here that I would have loved to comment on, but suffice it to say I feel confident it’s the DAC card holding back the Jot’s wow factor. I have no firsthand experience with the Jot2 specifically, but it’s common knowledge among Schiit enthusiasts that their add-in cards are really only for convenience and they don’t compete even in the same ballpark as their standalone counterparts, much less delta sigma vs multibit. Also, I feel confident that even on seemingly gear agnostic headphones you will hear a subtle but immediately apparent difference between delta-sigma and Bifrost 2. I would not call the Thieaudio Monarch particularly resolving, but when I had them I swapped from a dongle dac to the BF2>A90 just to see what I would hear and the layering and space between sounds was immediately apparent to me. I think I tend to fall in the camp of “DACs make the least difference” but I think the caveat to that is delta sigma vs r2r. I think that’s a difference that any attentive listener is going to hear pretty easily.
Also, you’re going to love the Bifrost 2. Why? Because literally everyone loves the Bifrost 2. 
Looking forward to hearing where this saga leads.
It could be. But if it is holding it back to the point of being unable to best a $109 portable dac/amp? That’s pretty bad. My headphones clearly don’t need the power. So I will find out soon!
Have you seen my list of trashing favorite products? Definitely don’t look at what I have had to say about various daps and portable dac/amps that aren’t the qudelix… This is clearly unrealistic optimism. 
I haven’t commented on my comparison of the playmate 2 and jot with the ananda. Want to guess why?
Anywho, schiit extended my return on the jot just long enough to try the bifrost. So I ordered it. Will use the input switch and multiple usb out to compare jot with 4490 to jot with bifrost.
That’s one conclusion. Another could be that they aren’t very good, and better sources don’t hide their faults.
Yep. When one has a bottleneck up the chain, everything after the bottleneck is shaped by the quirks and limitations of the bottleneck. Less sensitive downstream devices better preserve their own character and may mitigate the bottleneck. If the headphones are the bottleneck then “sources, DACs, and amps just don’t matter.”
Following your earlier comments (months ago) about a Dan Clark headphone, I still think you may be seeking/hearing/preferring a relatively flat dynamic range. However, it’s hard to say without systematic testing of the DAC and amp, so perhaps all will be revealed when your Bifrost 2 arrives sometime in the year 2029.
I am not so sure. If you read my ananda impressions, I think what I like about the hp-2 over them is the other way. I agree, the ether cx lost all that depth in dynamics, but the gain was a crazy amount of clarity. Both extremes are enjoyable to me. But one of them is emotional and visceral while the other is intellectual.
I think what I am sitting at in terms of amp/dac sits right in the middle. Very much like the ananda. Good at everything, great at nothing. The micro signature trended slightly toward more enjoyable.
Has anyone had experience with the new ES9028 dac card? Some say it’s very good and it also measures really good too.
I recently ordered my Jot 2 with ES9028 dac card but I’m not receiving it until February. I also have a chord mojo so I can A/B test between them. In my previous experience modern DACs make minimal differnece to sound, maybe this would be a different experience.
From my experience dacs start to make more of a difference the higher you go. I’d say $600-700ish and above. Sure you can hear some differences at entry and midfi level, but the flavors seems to be more noticeable as you go up.
For example, going from something like a smsl su9 to the bifrost 2 is a noticeable jump. Then from something like bf2 to a chord qutest or something higher is a little more of a jump. And it keeps going up from there. Obviously diminishing returns start to kick in, but that’s the audio game.
Hi Arghavan, Welcome to forum.headphones.com.
I have the both of the old Schiit add in DAC cards; 4490 and Multibit. They sound great and beat out $100 DACs, some of the time. I felt as though I was wasting my time and effort with them being too minor of an upgrade, each card being song dependent. What I ended up doing is just using my Bifrost 2 and not using the old DAC cards at all even though they are just a switch away from playing. Not really a side grade but a NON grade. The Bifrost 2 is a large improvement with my entire collection of music. Enough so that it actually made some of my amps enjoyable by large margins. If the old Schiit DAC cards are any indication of what to expect from the new ES9028, I would say don’t waste your time with the DAC cards unless you need the tidy neat package that it offers. Perhaps this is why you are not reading about others discovering paradise with the new ES9028 DAC card. People are just not willing to waste their time with the cards due to the low expectations that were formed with their old DAC cards. I suggest that you go with separates like I have with my Schiit Bifrost 2. Perhaps you might just stay with your Chord Mojo as a separate DAC for your Jotunheim 2 and contact Schiit before it ships?
Thanks. Bifrost 2 is way too expensive for me and I think I’d rather save up the money for another headphone TBH. I got the Mojo for around 280$ used, I can sell it and get a Modius but I dount it’ll be a better sounding DAC.