Since I got no audible hiss when I did it (feeding Focal Utopia), there was nothing for me to address.
There’s not much you can do where the upstream components have audible noise levels other than not run the configuration I suggested.
If you turn down the Jotunheim’s volume, then you’re not getting the benefit of bypassing its pot. Which means the Saga is just adding a little tube flavor. In which case, just run a Lyr 3.
…
It’s not a configuration for everybody.
Ok, but doesn’t this imply that max value of a potentiometer is better than any other fixed value on its scale? Is that a true statement? And, if so, why? Does it guarantee a match because you are at the extreme somehow? Also, wouldn’t this be implementation specific? Isn’t it possible that a potentiometer at half way, vs at max could exhibit the same, or even different problems? (Trying to understand the why of all this)
You actually mean the minimum value, as the potentiometer is providing attenuation. So turning the volume UP is actually moving the wipers on the potentiometer closer to the minimum resistance position.
While it can vary with different potentiometer implementations, the potentiometer is effectively a 0 ohm resistor (aka straight wire) at its minimum value (maximum volume setting on the amplifier).
It doesn’t guarantee a match unless the minimum value is a direct contact. But the issue of channel imbalance comes because the resistive tracks inside a potentiometer are subject to the same tolerances as regular resistors. At MINIMUM volume, you’re using the FULL length of the resistive track (highest resistance), so any tolerance deviations are at their highest there. And since both resistive tracks will have some variation, that’s the biggest divergence. As you get closer to minimum resistance the effects of that tolerance variation become smaller.
Since most volume pots are logarithmic, it doesn’t take much movement towards lower resistance values to significantly reduce the tolerance deviation.
Absent a faulty unit, differences between the two resistive tracks due to tolerance variation will always get smaller as you approach lower resistance values (higher volume).
Like I said, decades since I cared about any of this.
Got it. So, a really poor implementation would still be at its best, whatever that best is.
Cool. That was very clear! Thanks!
Some things worth remembering …
ALL amplifiers add noise and distortion to whatever they are fed. There is no way around this per fundamental laws of physics. Every single one, ever made, anywhere, degrades the fidelity of what it is fed.
The best amplifier in the world cannot correct missing information. Even if it was perfect (and there is no such thing). All it can do is add power, distortion and noise, and potentially adapt between non-ideal electrical interfaces.
If adding an amplifier (pre, power or integrated) IMPROVES sound (objectively or subjectively) it is for one of the following reasons:
The increased power available does a better job of driving the transducer than without.
The amplifier provides better matching between whatever is feeding it and whatever it is feeding. This is may not be about power necessarily. This is the one scenario where it is possible to add an amplifier into a chain and wind up with better objective measurements (usually due to correcting gross impedance mismatches) - other than volume/power output.
The distortions added result in a preferable end result to the listener.
The first two of these can be objective and subjective, the last is purely subjective.
Any time someone says they like amplifier A vs. amplifier B, it is either for one of the above
What people call “color” or “flavor” or “signature” when it comes to amplifiers are always one or more of the above factors. They are ALWAYS distortions of the original signal.
The point being … no amplifier can overcome the limitations of what it is fed beyond these elements. So if you feed a poor sounding DAC into the best amplifier in the world, it’ll still sound poor. And you will NOT see the real benefits of that amplifier unless you can compare it to other sources that are not the overriding, limiting, factor in the chain.
No, we are describing a valid comparison method. There’s a minimum cost of effectiveness in any hobby.
“I’m going to buy a sports car and will test drive a Mustang, a Corvette, and a Boxter.”
“Where will you drive them?”
“Around the McDonald’s drive thru as I get my lunch. I’ll drive one each day for three days. The dealership is next to McDonald’s so I can kill two birds with one stone.”
If you can’t tell the difference between those 3 cars in a mcdonald’s parking lot, my advice is don’t buy any of them.
Will you see more differences on real roads and at speed? Yep. But they function and feel very different at 5mph.
Obviously, this is just a bad analogy from my point of view. I get the point. But, what I feel like I am being told is I am buying a mustang, corvette or boxter and being told that it isn’t worth it unless I also have access to the autobahn. And I don’t. Sooooo… here we are. (Love driving on the auto-bahn! Only done it a few times, but so much fun)
The only question is what should I buy instead?
I get that, and I’m of the opinion that Schiit shouldn’t be offering the current modules as options with their current range of modular amps, since they just don’t perform up to par. You’re not getting a $500 dac/amp, you’re getting a $400 amp with a $100 DAC that doesn’t even perform at the level of their own $100 Modi 3+. I have a lot of respect for Schiit and like a bunch of their products a lot, but I certainly don’t think that all they offer is good.
I can’t give you any guarantees of course. I’m just offering you advice based on my own experience, and if I were in your shoes with the knowledge and experience I currently have, I would keep the Jot 2, and go for a Bifrost 2 + Lokius. I’d say it’s likely that you’ll find the difference the BF2 will bring to be worthwhile. The BF2 has a tendency to take people by surprise with how much of a difference it makes over the majority of inexpensive DACs.
Although that’s the same price range as a Jot2/BF2 stack, it’s not even close when it comes to sound. FWIW, I’m not aware of anyone who has heard both stacks and preferred the Topping stack.
Right, so if I am going for synergy, it makes more sense to return and buy the whole group together and then determine. Especially since I despise the buy/sell circle. What happens is I think “oh, I’ll sell that if I like the new thing” but in reality it goes into a box never to be seen again. So I don’t do it.
And that’s my problem. I would rather eat the $75 and return it now than have a $500 piece of metal in a box somewhere because I am lazy. (though, this is one reason I rarely order things with re-stock/return fees)
So, if BF is the “really high value” option, that’s great. Let’s look at this the other way, if I justified the BF, but said give me the cheapest amp that shows the quality, is there a cheaper than Jot option? Just needs to be good quality, doesn’t have to have 6watts like the jot.
thoughts?
I’ve used it with an Asgard 3 until I upgraded to the Jot 2, and it pairs well with the BF2 as well imo. Though the A3 does sound quite different from the Jot 2. It’s a warmer, richer, softer sounding amp, while the Jot 2 is more dynamic, engaging and resolving. Although I’d say the Jot 2 is the “better” amp, the more laid-back sound of the A3 can be very pleasant, and sometimes also preferable over the more energetic sounding Jot 2. They’re both great amps, and both offer excellent value at their price points imo.
Warm on top of warm of BF + Asgard isn’t an issue for you? Also, isn’t the SE output on the jot supposed to be close to the asgard? Isn’t that a thing people say? (just wondering for sonic comparison)
Would magnius be on the list for BF for you?
I previously owned the original Jot with a built-in, 4490 module and purchased myself a Signature a few months back. I intended for the devices to fulfill different roles but shortly after taking delivery of the Signature, I sold the Jot.
Simply put, the Jot was far less engaging to listen to. 
They do get warm when stacked, but nothing to worry about imo.
That’s something I don’t agree with. The Jot 2 SE sounds much closer to the Jot 2 BAL than it does to the A3 imo.
No. Magnius is for people who value measurements over sound. I’m not one of those people. 
The Jot 1 and 2 are very different from one another. They don’t sound alike.
Was talking about sound. 
Oh LOL. But no, it’s certainly not overly warm when you pair the A3 with a BF2. The kind of warmth you get from either is different and quite modest, and they complement each other in a very pleasant way imo.
Update: Decided to try a burson playmate 2. Hopefully it will be here soon enough to try them back to back.
If you do, don’t forget to use the Playmate as a source for the Jot as well to evaluate if you notice any difference between the Jot’s DAC module and the Burson’s.
Can you? I thought the playmate was basically self-contained?
Just pre-amp to the jot rca input?
Do you do as torq says and max the jot and control on the playmate?
Yep
I would just try both, see if anything works better for you, and if not just do whatever is more convenient.
Just ordered some monolith rca cables since I have none that are only 18" long.
Will provide feedback. I am guessing schiit won’t have an issue with a few extra days given their RA system doesn’t seem functional at the moment. (They responded and said submit again).