Thanks for all of the input. I think I have my mind really set on getting the Sundara’s as I am very eager to try out planar magnetic headphones. With that said, I think my next purchase will be a new amp - as it seems to be the next step in the chain that makes the most difference.
What about DAC’s? Do you really need “golden ears”, so to speak, in order to distinguish the differences?
New Headphones will always give the bigger change in sound as opposed to new Amps/Dacs.
And welcome @Yarbo.
Oh my word what a great photograph. Beautifully clear.
Regarding Dac’s I don’t feel that you need ‘Golden Ears’ to be able to hear the differences between them. Though I will say that the differences between them are mostly very subtle indeed.
DACs make a difference, but in my experience the transducers (headphones) are much more significant. A higher quality/price DAC may extend bass depth and clarity, but I hear more meaningful changes with the high notes.
A poor quality DAC (e.g., average PC output) will often have either (1) a dead/flat high end, or (2) a sharp and ragged high end, sometimes with unpleasant hiss/noise. On top of this, PCs don’t put out much power so the bass can be lacking (this is more of an amp issue). With a DAC upgrade the weird randomness on the high end will clean up, but you may need better headphones to hear it because headphones can also introduce hisses and high frequency noise. Upgraded DACs do indeed smooth out the raggedness and/or color (warm) the sound.
Frankly, you won’t hear that much difference between DACs on many low cost headphones. The Sennheiser 600 family should be seen as minimum quality, while the Focal Clear (at $1,000+) is great for hearing nuances. I don’t have golden ears by any means, but can easily hear the differences between DACs, amps, and source music quality after use/training.
[Editorial: Hearing the differences between items DOES NOT equate to value or need. Given acceptable quality, after an hour your brain might easily forget the differences or adapt to the current setup. Without double blind testing, opinions are just that. Enjoy the music and don’t obsess over the technology.]
@Yarbo, I recently received the Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid and I am finding the pairing with the HD6XX is excellent.
I have refrained from giving my detailed opinions until the honeymoon period is over but I can certainly say I am enjoying it.
My other amps are a JDS labs Atom (through which they also sound great but I am preferring the CTH) and a Loxjie P20 (another hybrid) which I find a little dark with the HD6XX.
I have a Modi+Magni Heresy stack incoming at some point but it has been stuck in a shipping void since February so I can’t comment on it yet.
I also enjoyed the Sundara a lot with the solid state Atom.
I’m honestly puzzled by this.
I found the opposite to be true with extensive back-to-back testing (Loxjie in balanced mode). My headphones at the time included Sennheiser HD-600, HiFiMan HE-560, Audeze LCD-2C (classic, not closed), and Focal Elex. The lows and mids were practically the same between both amps, but the MCTH was both fuzzier and duller than the P20 with the highs.
Thank you! I feel like the colors and look of that setup all pair very well. Especially with the retro looking digital numeric screen on the D10 and the old school, classic look of the DT770.
I’m afraid I can only speak about the HD6XX (it’s the only overear balanced set I have at the moment) but I am certainly preferring it on the CTH.
On the Loxjie, being fed balanced from the SU-8 and with GE 5670 3 Mica tubes, I find that the low end and lower mids of the HD6XX are a little “wooly”, for lack of a better term. With the CTH, fed from the D10, I find that the low end is slightly less pronounced and clearer sounding, of course, to my ears.
Saying this, the CTH is still a new (to me) amp so I prefer to not come to definitive conclusions yet, I haven’t done any comparative listening yet, just relaxing and enjoying.
I also preferred the HD6XX from the Loxjie over the Atom when I first had them together, however, now I prefer them with the Atom.
To give a good back to back comparison, I will need to either take the Loxije home or bring the CTH to work.
I absolutely hate car analogies in this hobby, but I’m going to use one anyway…
DACs are like the chassis on a car: it is the foundation for performance of the rest of the components. You’re going to want a custom carbon fiber chassis on your supercar, but your average passenger car won’t benefit from it. With that said, you don’t want to put a supercharged V8 engine and sports suspension into a Kia Rio frame either.
I think the Modi you have is fine until you start getting into higher end gear. Upgrade priority should be Headphones > Amp > DAC > source, as that is the order in which the largest differences are heard.
I don’t have a high opinion of the Sundaras, as the pair I had were before the running pad changes that supposedly worked a miracle on their frequency response (which I am suspect of, quite honestly) and because I felt they were picky about amp pairings. Most high power solid state amps were fine, but anything tube based was hit or miss. Mostly miss. Even tube hybrids. As for sound, I thought they were peaky and grainy in the treble and didn’t have the oomph or impact in the mids and low end that dynamic drivers like the HD6Xx or Eikons brought. They extended well enough in bass, but there is something about planar drivers that just don’t satisfy my need for low frequency air displacement. Anyway…
I’m not trying to dissuade you from trying them.
Experience is the mother of all teachers, it is said. There is priceless value in having heard a headphone vs having read a review on a headphone. I figured I’d at least put out a dissenting opinion with reasons.
I have average, old-age (70), high-requency hearing loss. I clean out my ears twice a year. I’m not an audiophile, not wealthy, but I like working in the office to good music. I am just NOT going to wear headphones in the office, let the software developers do that. My journey started with $80 VModa earbuds. They have always sounded great to me. From a laptop via Spotify Premium to a series of Audioquest Dragonflies – Black, Red, now Cobalt. I was impressed with the Black when it first came out. You just cannot beat the price/convenience/SQ package. But I paid $100 more for the Red, just out of curiosity, expecting to return it. Nope. Gave away my Black. The Red gave me about 4 years of satisfied business/work listening. Well, guess what? My Cobalt just arrived. What a freakin astonishing sound right out of the box for this stupid-small/convenient package. Honestly, this combo rivals my home desktop system – iMac USB to PSAudio Stellar Gain DAC to Sennheiser HD600s. Cobalt is astonishing. I guess my VModas are pretty amazing, too. For me. Here’s another tip for you home/desktop system freaks. I must have gone through 5 sets of speakers before I landed on nirvana. AudioEngine powered top to the line. Ugh. NAD amp/dac with MartinLogan LX16. Pretty good, love the ribbons. Yamaha HS8. Now we’re getting somewhere. Maybe the answer is powered studio freaking monitors? Yes, ma’am. What a dope I have been. Bookshelf speakers are NOT for the desktop. Just TRUST me on this. You need powered near-field monitors on isoAcoustics stands. I tried the Tannoy Golds.They were 90% of what I was looking for. (Love the old British technology updated for today. Big cool factor. Single point source has a lot to offer on a desktop for cohesiveness.) But, after stumbling into reviews from studio sound board/music producers, I bought my final desktop speaker – Neumann KH120A. Crazy accurate without edginess. Cohesive. Dynamic. Natural. No sub needed. Reveals all you want in your DSD purchases (yes, there’s a difference). The only issue is that they will reveal the heck out of poorly recorded music. But is that really bad? My current test albums: (1) Cowboy Junkies - Ghosts and (2) Sonny Rollins Quartet - Tenor Madness (Rudy Van Gelder Remaster). Your bonus album (trust me on this, too): Otis Taylor - Hey Joe Opus Red Meat. (Who would ever imagine someone could do Hey Joe better than Hendrix?) Happy Listening out there in the Under $500 World. And please don’t forget to support your local live music venues.
I really, really enjoyed the HiFiMan 400 ($199 on Amazon, down from 400-something original retail). More so than the Senn 650s (which likely has me in a minority on this thread). But there are a lot of options, as you’ve seen in the replies.
The HD6XX apparently only has a month left on Drop? Do you guys think they are putting production on hold, or is it the last time it will be available?
My guess is that they’re on hold so that they can re-brand them to “Drop” instead of “Massdrop”
The HD6XX has come and gone several times. The very first release was “limited to X,XXX units” and sold out instantly. Then (Mass)Drop and Sennheiser realized they’d discovered a new market and brought it back on a near-permanent basis. They briefly upped the price too (e.g., $250), but brought it back down. With more than 100,000 sold, I think that product keeps the lights on at both places.
Got this little guy delivered yesterday and I couldn’t be more impressed for $100. Loxjie P20
Tried it balanced with my Earstudio M100 mk 2 as a preamp set at 2 volts and my Fostex T40rp with Dekoni hybrid pads and oh my oh my. It was so nice.
Listening to it now with it through a Modi DAC and it also sounds great. I have some balanced cables on the way to do both balanced in and balanced out.
Plenty of power for the Fostex’s. It just sounds better to me than the Magni 3+ that I normally use in every way. Magni seems more analytical and precise and the Loxjie just sounds almost buttery smooth. I listen for pleasure and to rock, grunge, and metal and the occasional Zimmer movie soundtrack (Dark Knight etc.) and will do a bit of EQ to get things the way I like them and this is a winner in my opinion. If I could have heard this compared to the Magni I would have gotten this one. This with a set of Fostex TR40/50/20 and a set of Dekoni Pads, and a Earstudio and a balanced 2.5mm to XLR cable comes in under $500 and there’s so much functionality from the Earstudio.
It’s also pretty cool to look at in my room at night…
It may have been mentioned earlier but I want to put the KSC75 out there as a fun, no-brainer purchase. They sound way better than they should at their humble price of $15. I use them regularly when I’m in the mood for something other than IEMs. Sometimes it’s a great feeling to be able to do things outside or around the house and have great sounding music right on your ears, but still be able to hear everything going on around you. I compare the sound to hanging tiny speakers on your ears and going about your business. I think everyone should at least try them since they are so cheap and enjoyable. I find myself coming back to them on a regular basis even though they are the cheapest thing in my collection. Yes they look goofy, yes they feel cheap, but they sound great! And if they break, who cares? Go get another pair. They are only $15!
There’s an entire thread for the Koss Porta Pro where the KCS 75 is often mentioned.
Great little headphones. 
I plan to pick up the Porta Pro at some point soon too. I’ve always thought they looked like a fun headphone and I’ve heard tons of good stuff. I’ve heard they are sort of the yin to the KSC75’s yang.
I think it’s more of a fun sound signature. Either pair are an excellent value.
